If you're female and frequented rock clubs...

[whoami24601]

Can you help me? I have a theory...

With #toomanymen trending and everyone sharing stories I've been mulling over my own experiences of harassment. Whilst thinking about my time as a teenager I've realised that, although I mostly went to rock pubs and clubs, all of my bad experiences happened in 'normal' nightclubs.

I have long thought that the rock scene is much more relaxed, friendly and accepting than others, and I'd like to know if that is your experience as well? I'm interested if I'm the exception or the rule.

Thanks!

I'm not saying that the men in rock clubs are inherently 'better' or that people who listen to that kind of music are either. But there is obviously something in it. You've all made good points re community spirit, there for the music not the atmosphere, regulars knowing each other etc. It looks like that applies to other 'specialist' venues too. It probably helps that the club we used to go to was a good distance from the city centre, so the only people there had planned to be there. There was a pub en route and everyone drank there first so that extended the familiarity with a lot of the clientele. Interesting also that quite a few of you have stories where other men intervened to help. I can't imagine that happening in my local Wetherspoons!

I used to sell roses in pubs and clubs for years and loved it and you are absolutely correct @whoami24601 . If a club had a mosh pit I knew I was in for a good night of selling and lovely customers. There was one club in particular which was split into two parts. Dance and popular music in one side and rock in the other. The rock, goth and emo side was absolutely lovely with friendly people.
The "regular" side with the lads in Ben Sherman shirts, Lynx Africa and gelled hair meant I got quite a lot of harassment (from both sexes). Rude people and once or twice being attacked, with someone trying to steal the money pot out of my hand and people trying to steal my bucket of roses. The same side was far more likely for me being grabbed, groped or having rude inappropriate comments made my way. Not something which bothered me because die to the job, it was normal and we were trained how to handle it, (though I can't say it didn't piss me off)

It was the same in the other pubs and clubs I went to every shift. A marked difference in attitudes. I did the job for years and could count the times I met rude Goths on one hand whereas it was multiple times a shift from "regular" customers.

I went to Download Festival once with another female friend, we were accosted several times by different groups of rather aggressive men demanding to know what bands we were there to see, why did we like those particular bands etc, trying to catch us out for not being true rock fans etc. One group even followed us around for half an hour shouting insults at us. Very strange experience.

Hmmm

Mostly true

However there was a man wanking against us at an indie gig in mid/late 90s (Radiohead I think)

Also definitely some over persistent men in indie clubs, same era

But yes tons better than the more “laddish” scene

I identify with this as well. I've also ran into problems at more mainstream festivals than rock ones.

Actually, I've just remembered I was groped at a James concert, and that the (absolutely huge) man in front of us was being really threatening to his wife or girlfriend. No one intervened. Not sure if that counts as a rock club.

Yep, I agree. From the late 80s to pre lockdown, never any trouble at a rock night or in a rock club.

Yes, the alternative music scene just feels more accepting and tolerant. I've never been threatened or grabbed there, and the men who did approach me who I declined all took it in good humour rather than getting aggressive.

Agreed - I was never harassed in rock clubs/dives in the same way I was in regular clubs .Attended a very large G'N'R concert 2019 and was squashed and surrounding by men, I never felt safer!

I can relate to this too, only recall ever being groped at one gig (which was bad enough tbh, I had made a real effort and never got 'dressed up' again after that).

Rock clubs in London were so friendly in the late 90's/early 2000's, I wouldn't say there was no trouble but other men used to call them out and sometimes throw them out. It felt very safe.

Yes absolutely. This was my experience too, especially around bikers. I have never felt anywhere safer than in rock and metal clubs.

I used to go to indie clubs a lot and I don't recall any issues. However, if I went to more mainstream places there was definitely a lot more groping and harassment. Going to places with a mix of male and female work friends/colleagues often meant more mainstream places but less hassle as there were males as part of the group.

My experience of rock/alternative venues in the 90s was that while there were some men I wouldn't want to be alone with any public poor behaviour was called out very quickly and often quite aggressively by other men. Much safer than mainstream clubs and pubs. I wonder why.

Yes, absolutely true.

I disagree actually. it's certainly less than mainstream places but I used to go to a rock club every weekend as a teenager and there was defiantely some harassment about. I rember being (underage for entry) 15 and sitting on the stage chatting with some older friends after a gig and one of a band who was in his 30s coming to sit next to me whilst putting his hand on my lower back and stoking it, for example. I also remember friend sitting and rejecting someone's advances only to have him stick his face in her crotch. Certainly there's a "groupie" culture and all of the underage disgustingly inappropriate abuse of teenagers quite well known amongst bands of varying success (take recent Marilyn Manson allegations for example).

However I did always feel safer than when I've been in the street or in another type of club - the type of place where someone gropes you then calls you out or becomes aggressive for being offended and saying something. I'm mindful that I can only think of specific examples of rock clubs where as there's almost too much harassment to count in others (not just of me, but that I've witnessed).

Likewise I would probably even now approach a group of "alternative" men in the street if I needed help or direction out of preference.

Same! Have found my people! I also used to find that the nicest people to ask for music recommendations from in CD shops were the "scariest" looking blokes. There's definitely something to be said for the shared interest/there for the music and perhaps also wanting to protect their image/not be tarred with the same brush as any troublemakers. For me this would have been 2006-2013.

I remember for example at a RBF gig a guy had been pickpocketing mobile phones and some other blokes stopped him and sat on him until the police arrived then helped to redistribute phones and ensure that no one was left without a way to get home, many of whom would have been women.

I would agree with this. Had a few drunken snogs in rock and indie places as a youth but it always felt safe and fun, no harassment.

Dh has a theory that the stricter the dress code the rougher the pub!

I have had the odd creep at rock/goth clubs but they were always townies rather than other mosher/goths.
Normal nightclubs I always was on high alert. WAY more drugs and drinking, and that's compared to Slimelight...

@whoami24601

Can you help me? I have a theory...

With #toomanymen trending and everyone sharing stories I've been mulling over my own experiences of harassment. Whilst thinking about my time as a teenager I've realised that, although I mostly went to rock pubs and clubs, all of my bad experiences happened in 'normal' nightclubs.

I have long thought that the rock scene is much more relaxed, friendly and accepting than others, and I'd like to know if that is your experience as well? I'm interested if I'm the exception or the rule.

Thanks!

How weird. I started to read your post, got as far as #toomanymen and thought: no, never in rock clubs, they were always gents. Then I read on and realised that's what you were saying.

I told DH this morning that if I started writing down my experiences of being flashed at, chased by strangers, attacked by strangers, propositioned by bosses and colleagues, threatened with rape etc I'd never stop. And I am an ordinary women, nothing special about my looks or behaviour.

But in rock clubs, my key memories are: almost being crushed at the front when the band came on and the crowd surged forward and hearing a man shout, 'Step back, there's a girl getting crushed'. On another similar occasion, men behind me seeing I was being crushed crowd surfed me to safety then made sure I could see at the back of the room before going back to what they were doing.

Also several times got walked home from gigs by virtual strangers who lived miles in the opposite direction because they didn't want anything happening to me.

My goodness, you are right! I’d never thought of it, either.

This was a bit of a light bulb moment for me too. Rock/Metal people are the best. I went to a gig in Leeds once and my Travelodge/Premier Inn was out of the way and the area was a bit sketchy.

I big bunch of guy in denim and leather walked me back there. I was so touched.

Yes. I've been groped and harassed in normal clubs and pubs but never it a rock/metal venue.

Anyone remember Trinians in Newcastle? This thread has brought back memories (of 80's hair!)

Generally I would agree but I did have a nasty experience at an indie night once, guy put his hand right between my legs from behind. I've just realised though that it was the only time I ever really reacted to something like that happening (it was far from the only time it happened to me in other places) and it's possible the reason I did was because I felt safer in that kind of crowd. The guy looked most surprised when I turned round and punched him in the face (as was I tbh!) and maybe being in that environment was why I reacted differently than I normally would have.

I also remember thinking I'd never seen the guy in there before (I went every week) and that he didn't really fit with the usual crowd so I think he might have been exploring new hunting grounds, hopefully I put him off coming back, I never saw him there again anyway. I remember the lads I knocked about with from that scene being quite protective as well but in a very non macho way, more looking out for us in a similar way to how women look out for each other than growling at guys to scare them off for us. I definitely felt safer then but had put that down to the time rather than the places (god I miss the 90's ) but yes, thinking about it I do think that scene probably is safer and more respectful of women, makes me glad DD is following in my footsteps music-wise

Never really occurred to me before but yes, I was underage when I went to 'alternative' and rock bars...no problems. When I'm a usual pub or club I had many issues. I wonder why? It's interesting that so many others are saying the same.