DH is in hospital and really struggling with some of the other patients

[Doffodils]

He's been in a week, is in a lot of pain, can't sit up by himself and hasn't been out of bed since he got there.

He's on a general ward where most of the other patients are elderly with some level of dementia. For the first few days there was a man who kept stripping naked and trying to "escape" with lots of disruption during the night, which was irritating and amusing for DH in equal measure.

Now there's a man who seems to think all DH's possessions belong to him. DH is "joking" but he said he'll have to sleep with one eye open. It must be really stressful for him knowing he can't move to defend his stuff. He's keeping everything in reach because if he puts it in his locker he has to call a nurse to get it for him when he wants it.

I can't visit, so haven't seen it myself and haven't spoken to the staff but what should happen in a situation like this? It's obviously a very sad situation for the man concerned and difficult for the staff but surely DH should feel safe in hospital?

It is sadly depressingly common.
DMIL was in and out of hospital for 18 months before her death from cancer.
One stay included a lady on her ward with dementia who screamed, smashed things and went into everyone's cubicle the whole time - this went on for a week and DMIL got no sleep. The staff did nothing.

We had to make a formal complaint in the end as did other patients and families.
It's heartbreaking for the person with dementia (my DGM has it so I am sympathetic and I know it wasn't her fault) but nothing was done to safeguard the lady or the other patients until we really bitterly complained.

Hope your DH improves OP. My DMIL's experience in hospital sounds so similar, I would have done ANYTHING to get her out of that ward and into a private one if she had insurance.

As for saying visitors can visit @canigooutyet they cannot. I spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day not knowing where my DGM was or how she was after a fall as we couldn't even get through to the hospital by phone, let alone visit.

It’s appalling that we’re in the 21st century and we’re expected to have sick people in 6-8 bedded wards.
We should be paying more NI and tax and be providing our sick with single en-suite rooms.
We should be providing adequate nursing staff to nurse those sick in their single rooms.
I say this as a retired nurse who nursed in the Nhs for 40 years.
But we’re a nation of cheapskates who like to do everything on the cheap.
As someone upthread said, don’t expect to pay for a mini and receive a rolls Royce.
I hope your dh recovers soon, @Doffodils

I've recently spent 4 days in hospital. It was manic, in one day alone I had three women in the bed next to me, as soon as one went another was admitted. 1st wanted constant attention from the nurses, just to chat, 2nd one was aggressive called the nurse a 'bloody bitch' the whacked her on the back of her legs with a zimmer frame, 3rd one didn't have a clue what was going on, kept touching my stuff, when told by nurse to leave me alone as I wasn't well she said 'she should be in hospital then'... an old man kept walking about, while they were trying to sort him out another elderly man fell out of bed...the poor nurses. I was eventually moved to another ward where the patient next to me was so aggressive she hit 5 members of staff in the face...I could go on. I was cared for really well in the most difficult of situations. Dont know what the answer is tbh, but it was the same when I was in in2017.

Those posters who can’t fathom why the OPs DH isn’t rushing to be taken to a private hospital, the OP has already explained about access to ITU.

I hope your DH makes a good recovery from his surgery and is more independent and comfortable soon.

I had to have my appendix out 6 weeks after having my first child. I’m not lying when I say when I care round it was like I’d been hit my a bus.
It wasn’t a simple operation and they were 100% convinced it was my appendix. It was the weekend and I was put in a ward in a bag with the elderly. I was early 30s. They all had dementia. There was a lady opposite that literally every 5 mins shouted out “Mavis, where are you Mavis.”

I got no sleep that night it was horrendous. I put the water works on when the very sexy doctor came round and said that I wasn’t staying there another night. I was moved to another bay within the hour.

Unfortunately I doubt this will happen during Covid times.

@HazyJuly ^^ They tend not to put very ill patients in single rooms.

Really?. Well I’ve seen it happen plenty of times and it’s usually for the best in case the patient deteriorated.

[quote Worldbarbie]@HazyJuly ^^ They tend not to put very ill patients in single rooms.

Really?. Well I’ve seen it happen plenty of times and it’s usually for the best in case the patient deteriorated.[/quote]
You must be somewhere with high staffing.

It is much easier to supervise someone in a communal ward than a private room.

Someone died pretty much everyday on the 8 bed ward my DH was on- he was in a few times. Typically in the small ward was him- 2 very ill people - 1 of whom died and 5 people with dementia. That is a bit of an exaggeration but that was how it seemed.

You were moved to a side room when you needed less care (or if you had something that was transmissible to others).

I've just spent 2 nights with DH in hospital (was end of life now passed or I wouldn't have been allowed in at all - no exceptions !)
it's bloody hard for the staff at the min, more patients, less staff (sickness, shielding, isolating and too many people) I could here them all the time trying to juggle balls.

Hope DH feels better, a good nights sleep is priceless

The NHS is really terrible. How can one recuperate it these circumstances. No surprise that covid is spreading so easily in hospital.

I am autistic, but so good at masking that you'd really struggle to tell, without specialist insight.

A few years ago, I had major abdominal surgery and had to spend a few nights on a four-bed ward to recover.

The first night was fine, as it was only me and another patient (and some excellent nurses), but thereafter, a couple of other patients arrived and a new clinical assistant, who kept pulling the curtains around my bed aside, in spite of instructions on my notes to keep them closed.

After about half a day of this, I had my first 'proper' meltdown in god knows how many years, sending my temperature and BP shooting, and begged the ward sister to let me go home.

I was very fortunate that I could go home to a quiet environment with a caring partner, and was in a much better place there, but I don't know what I would have done had that not been an option.

I'm so sorry: it sounds awful. The NHS is good, but not perfect.

@ginandbearit was that Highroyds?

Lupellegrino no Graylingwell in Chichester...it had a really good reputation for innovative research and practice , big grounds for people to walk and get fresh air in safety, and we did basic nursing care and end of life care . There were many wards with people with dementia and also long term head injuries and brain damage ...over two thousand patients at its peak..two farms ..workshops ..a genuine safe haven for many though also of course a 'bin' for those society deemed too difficult to live with ...by the eighties things were running down and we had a few elderly ladies who had been placed there in the twenties and thirties for 'moral.degeneracy' . It is forgotten how the scourge of Syphilis was a real fear before penicillin and many thousands of people ended their days with terminal brain damage because of it .Anyway derailing thread but unintended consequences of the closure of the big mental health hospitals was ...well..where we are now .

@notapizzaeater so sorry to read this.

One in 6 people over 80 have dementia in the UK, according to Google.
So quite a few of the posters on this thread will get it.
What is the answer?
Euthenasia in Switzerland is never mentioned for Dementia patients - though personally I would see that as the better option. I suppose it's assumed you don't have capacity to make the decision.
As an older poster it is a scary prospect.

My dad is a healthy, on the ball, intelligent man. But when he was in hospital, his illness, sleep deprivation and the unfamiliar environment made him quite confused at times. I would guess that anyone with mild dementia, who would normally be okay in a familiar environment with familiar carers, is going to be 10x worse on a hospital ward.

@PinkyParrot

One in 6 people over 80 have dementia in the UK, according to Google. So quite a few of the posters on this thread will get it. What is the answer? Euthenasia in Switzerland is never mentioned for Dementia patients - though personally I would see that as the better option. I suppose it's assumed you don't have capacity to make the decision. As an older poster it is a scary prospect.

It terrifies me as there’s a huge incidence of it in my mum’s family. Dignitas isn’t an option, you have to have six months or less left and of course by that stage capacity has gone.

If I get a dementia diagnosis I intend to see myself off immediately.

Oh gosh this sounds pretty grim. My heart goes out to everybody involved. My mother was hospitalised with an illness that affected her brain function and she would frequently be confused with dementia like behaviour. Sometimes when we arrived (before COVID) she would start to get out of bed as if we’d come to collect her to bring her home when she was in no fit state to leave hospital. Sometimes she would think she was waiting in an airport or train station. And tell us off that she’s been waiting for three hours for this train!

At her worst she got paranoid and nasty, threatening other patients and nurses and telling my father there was a conspiracy to lock her up and steal her money!

I don’t know why I’m saying this really as my heart goes out to everybody on ward with your husband and I feel for him having to deal with this man.

All I can say is maybe keep speaking to the ward nurses and sisters etc

It's a bit of a vicious circle, though- patients are behaving worse because the environment they are in is chaotic, noisy, constant lights/sounds, different nurses and HCA all of whom are rushed off their feet- shouting out is one of the only ways they feel they can attract (the very little) attention. 6-8 bed wards aren't very good for anyone, let along dementia patients or anyone else.

The NHS is a pile em high and sell them cheap type of healthcare. In some European countries they only have single rooms and that's what there is, no communal or mixed sex wards at all. You need a lot more healthcare staff and more money for that, we don't have it, and the NHS is very inefficiently run and this all means you are shoved in the opposite of a health-ful situation. It's actually risky in other ways on a 6-8 bed ward, the most obvious being infection transmission, covid, also hospital acquired infections are prevalent in the NHS. It is NOT the staff fault though, the staff are usually pretty good, just run off their feet constantly, especially on the acute units.

I hope your husband gets some answers to what is wrong with him, if he can get a private room through his insurance, I would do that.

It sounds like a nightmare OP, and I hope that your DH manages to get some more good nights of sleep.

I work in an NHS hospital which does have single rooms (each with ensuite bathroom). We often have patients who are confused, have a delirium or a diagnosis of dementia on my ward....along with acutely ill patients (which is what my ward deals with as a speciality....the latter, not the former).

It is very very difficult to get even normal staffing levels at the moment (and it was hard enough before). In an ideal world, there would be adequate staffing levels....PLUS 1:1 staff allocated for the most confused patients. But that is a kind of utopia, particularly now.

The single rooms are (IMHO) fab: I think it does a huge amount for a person's privacy and dignity to have their own "safe space" and their own bathroom etc. However, we still get complaints about them! Many patients don't like how isolating it can be, and prefer the old Nightingale style wards (that's how things were when I started working in hospitals) or bayed wards. What one person prefers, another person hates. Another problem with single rooms is that a staff member can only be in one place at one time...therefore, if I'm tending to an acutely ill patient in one room, I cannot see/hear the confused/aggressive/wandering patient who is absconding from their room and going into other patient's rooms. When working on a bay or open ward, I'd hear what was happening beyond the cubicle I was working in, even if I couldn't see it.

Before the pandemic (and when/if appropriate of course!), I often would set up table and chairs at my nurse's desk for confused patients. I'd make them cups of tea/coffee and give them small snacks, play them some music (on my phone!) and do an "impromptu tea party type thing". It meant that I could supervise safely several confused patients, whilst getting paperwork/patient notes written up. It also meant that the patients had a bit of social interaction, and maybe some sense of belonging. I used to love doing that....it was a way to chat with them (often very random conversations!!) and spend time with them, but also be able to keep an eye on them whilst being able to get other work done. No way could that happen now though!

With respect to your DH's belongings...is it worth getting him to ask the nursing staff to give him some of his printed patient labels to stick onto his things (phone, charger, tablet)? So that if the confused gentleman comes up and tries to take his stuff, DH can say, "ah no mate, these belong to me....see, they have my name on them". Sometimes, that helps. See if he can chat to the ward staff and see what they come up with. Please know that, yes we're busy, but we do want to do our best for each and every patient. x

What is the answer?

Euthanasia is not legal in the UK. However, a more practical solution than Dignitas (because actually if you have dementia I'm not sure you'd be able to consent and you might find it very distressing even if it were possible) would be an advance directive. Basically you can request that if you get dementia (or anything else that you'd rather not survive) that you are not given any medical treatment that would prolong your life. This can include things like CPR but also things like antibiotics, tube feeding or ventilation. I fully intend to have one.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/end-of-life-care/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/

[quote Insert1x20p]What is the answer?

Euthanasia is not legal in the UK. However, a more practical solution than Dignitas (because actually if you have dementia I'm not sure you'd be able to consent and you might find it very distressing even if it were possible) would be an advance directive. Basically you can request that if you get dementia (or anything else that you'd rather not survive) that you are not given any medical treatment that would prolong your life. This can include things like CPR but also things like antibiotics, tube feeding or ventilation. I fully intend to have one.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/end-of-life-care/advance-decision-to-refuse-treatment/[/quote]
I’ve got one but it’s not enough. I’m not putting my family through that again, once with my mum was more than enough. My plan’s in place and it doesn’t involve hanging around for nature to take its course.

Some private hospitals have ITU facilities which might be worth looking into

I used to work as a manager in homes for adults with mental health issues. Obviously they sometimes had medical problems and needed to go into the local hospital. We found several problems, staff not trained in dealing with mental health issues, some staff not wanting to engage with mental health problems, being required to have a member of our staff with patient for 24/7 which put a strain on us as residents not funded for 1 to 1 but also the staff member not being offered any support e.g. free parking, an occasional cup of tea, being relieved so they could get a meal or even go to the loo. I've had many conversations about this being a 2 way thing and if they wanted our help, and lets remember that people with mental health issues are entitled to all the healthcare that everyone else is entitled to, then there needed to be some level of reciprocal help.

Just to balance up my previous post I was in hospital a couple of years ago, very busy mixed ward. One man got very distressed at about 1 am. Woke the ward up so we all saw what went on. The senior nurse on duty reasoned with him, tried to distract him as he tried to leave, got him to speak to his wife on the phone who had some success in calming him. Senior nurse then offered him a side room which he accepted. She then made everyone hot drinks, I had hot chocolate, and we all had biscuits. It was like a midnight picnic and instead of us all being upset we actually admired her skills, enjoyed our picnic, slept well afterwards. So some staff deal with it brilliantly.

Yes it’s very difficult and really needs addressing because dementia is more and more common nowadays so the issues in hospitals won’t be going away.

My husband was in hospital for ten weeks last year and we saw a lot of this. It can even occur temporarily in elderly patients with just a water infection. The man in the next bed was vile, shouting and screaming all night, very racist and sexist to the nurses. His wife was constantly in tears - she said he was a really mild mannered man usually. But his shouts really hindered the recovery of the other patents, who just couldn’t sleep. I remember they often sat a trainee nurse with him, who was often very young and didn’t really know what to do. Tbh I would’ve been the same in the days before my mil got dementia. They really do need more staff.