Breastfed baby and sleeping?

[Decembertojanuary]

Not sure where to put this!

Baby is breastfed, and I’m also expressing. Obviously this takes a lot of time overnight.

I’ve been sitting up in the lounge with baby from midnight until whenever he sleeps (usually around 7am.)

How do others manage this? Just struggling with it but on the other hand I don’t want OH getting no sleep either.

It sounds like the tongue tie has reattached or wasn't snipped fully. I'd ask for a follow up. My DS needed his snipping 3 times.

OP just seen you had a section. Are you still on any painkillers? I’m convinced DC2 slept so much in the day in the first few weeks because of the effect of the drugs I was taking. It was a complete revelation when I worked it out. I had to wake for every feed in the daytime for a while.

Hey love, I’m so sorry you’re struggling you sound exhausted. Were you given any support with teaching baby how to latch after the tt snip? When my baby (and I call him just baby sometimes too, not sure what the beef was there!) had his snipped I sat feeding him there for half an hour with the infant feeding midwife, and had a follow up video call a week later to check he was ok. Ties can reattach, it might be that he needs checking again?

It does sound like you’ve got into a bit of a top up formula/expressing trap you can’t get out of, I completely get why and absolutely no judgment, I’m sorry you haven’t had good support. But I think you really need specialist support from a lactation consultant at this stage to break the cycle. You clearly really want to breastfeed and with the right support it’s very unlikely you can’t.

I know cost can be prohibitive, but here’s where you find certified IBCLCs. This is what you need. Lucy Ruddle, Lucy Webber and No Milk Like Mama’s are also worth finding on Facebook and Instagram, they share a lot of helpful stuff as well as being lactation consultants you can work with.
lcgb.org/find-an-ibclc/

@Decembertojanuary

I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong. This is pure emotion and hormones talking but it feels so personal. Feels as if my baby doesn’t want me and feels as though I make him miserable.

Your not doing anything wrong! It's bloody tough for the first few weeks and babies struggle to latch.

In terms of what you have said pumping - you shouldn't be pumping for 1.5 hours should really be 30 min max for a normal pump session. Not all women respond to a pump it is by no means any sign of how much milk you produce! My friend would get about 5ml yet her BF baby was 95th percentile for weight.

It's a bit of a vicious circle you stress about feeding and pumping and your body produces less milk. I have been stuck in this cycle.

So tips for pumping - massage your boobs first get a bit of milk onto the nipple and massage every 5 mins during pumping. Relax - look at pictures of your baby have a big drink of water on standby. Cover the bottles with socks so your not constantly looking. If you are worried about supply Google power pumping. But don't do this every session.
Don't be pumping for 1.5 hour sessions at a time.

In terms of BF do you have a baby sling or kangaroo top? You can tie these with a section. Go back to basics of skin to skin as much as possible plus side at the moment no visitors so sit on the sofa shirt on boobs out baby in a nappy and a blanket just have love time.

I also found that doing baby massage with my son helped me stop feeling like a endless pumping cow and massively helped me relax. This can be done from birth.

I know your tired and stressed out if possible pace feed with a bottle or get your DH to help you will be amazed (and slightly annoyed) by how quick they then go back to sleep after feeding a baby.

Most importantly OP be kind to yourself! People make BF seem like plug and go reality is that for many this isn't the case. I definitely struggled for weeks. I honestly promise you though once you get through those struggles it really does become a lot easier! I also know I wanted to scream at people who told me this but it's true it just clicks after a few weeks despite what it feels like currently.

Please keep reaching out to BF advice NCT also have a free breastfeeding support line and many local groups have BF support you don't need to be a member to access these services.

Oh, OP.....what a hard job/jobs you're undertaking.

No one here can make more than the most basic suggestions as we don't know how old your baby is, what the weight issues have been, what exactly happens when you feed.....except to agree with you that this sort of regime (bf direct, expressing and then bottle feeding) is sooooo difficult to sustain, and you need help to find a way out.

Your next step is probably to find decent real life help and assessment of the situation from someone trained. The bf support lines are all open over the holidays and you will find someone who will listen and help you work out what to do next.

Feel free to share more info here - age of baby, weight history, what you have tried so far, how often you feed, how often you express - but if you can, try to speak to someone you can have a proper informed dialogue with.

I think it's very doubtful that the bottle your dh gave in the beginning is the main cause of the difficulties, btw. It's rarely the greatest idea unless there is some sort of clinical reason, but it should be overcomeable, and not have a long lasting effect.

HTH

Sorry - just realised there are pages and pages to this thread so maybe the info is already shared :) No matter - you still need RL help, I think.

Not read full thread, sorry, but we took it in shifts of 3-4 hours to hold baby. We did combi feed so husband have expressed or formula during his shift. I didn't kill myself expressing. Did this for a week, but not really sustainable, so then I started cosleeping and BF lying down during my shift, and quite quickly that turned into me just generally cosleeping and we didn't need the shifts anymore. I think you only need. 3-4 hours sleep to get back up again and look after baby, I would be waking your DP up at 4am, you getting some sleep and then he can nap 7am-10am or similar.

OK - sorry, me again! Ive read the thread.

Your head must be totally spinning with all this, on top of the lack of sleep.

This is not really an issue for an internet forum, IMO....not now, not with dozens of different ideas some of which you have tried already.

You're two weeks postnatal....it is certainly possible to turn this round.

It's something that needs addressing with real life observation and assessment. Some bf counsellors will help with a video call - this might be good. Hope you'll find someone.

I'm sorry you're having such a tough time! Be kind on yourself, your baby is still very young at 2 weeks. Babies take a long time to feed at that age and they feed often!

My baby (6 months now) had tongue tie. It was cut at 2 weeks and then we had to have it cut again at 8 weeks. She couldn't latch at all pre 1st cut, and I mean not at all. And then she would hold on to my nipple with her gums. Excruciating and obviously would stifle the flow. We didn't get in with sheilds but if you are using them be mindful they do slow the milk transfer so you should expect a feed to take longer.

With regards to expressing, I really struggled to get enough milk out to cover the bottle feeds. I found expressing incredibly stressful and I felt like I was doing something wrong to not be able to breastfeed my baby. I wasn't. You aren't. It just takes some babies longer to establish.

I pumped every 2-3hrs in the day and only once overnight. We bottle fed overnight. We used the expressed milk first and then probably one formula feed. Best to pump after a breastfeed or an hour before a feed so there is enough milk.

For us, my baby was very slow to work it out and it took us till 3 months to get to exclusive breastfeeding and no pumping or formula. But it worked. It really felt like it wouldn't but one day it just clicked.

Keep going (for as long as you want to) and I hope it'll work out for you too.

I suggest getting in touch with either Lucy Webber IBLC or Milk Meg who both offer distance lactation consultations and can help with the feeding and the sleep.

Sitting up all night with the baby is dangerous. The risk of you falling asleep in a chair holding the baby is SIDS so I think you really need to focus on moving away from that.

I had awful issue feeding my first, tongue tie and terrible latch, and I had a lactation consultant show me how to feed in bed, with baby lying by my side and also lying on my chest. Even if you are having issues feeding these are the positions you should be trying - they are more natural for the baby and will mean you get the most rest. Dismissing side lying feeding because you are having issues feeding is a bit nonsensical but I know how hard it is to see the wood for the trees when you are in the thick of it.

Good luck and happy for you to pm me if you’d rather chat to someone who’s been through it one to one.

Well, we’ve just had a semi successful breastfeed. Semi successful as started off well, fed for 20 mins on one breast but then got stressed and annoyed on the other. Given him to dad now.

Also, meant to add about side lying. We really could not get this to work for us. We tried and tried but just didn't happen. Just try different positions and keep revisit them as baby gets older.

What helped then most (other than baby getting bigger and tongue tie sorted) is the flipple technique and gentle pressure between baby's shoulder blades to encourage head to tilt back for a wide mouth gape. Lucy Webber explains this nicely on her Facebook page.

That's great you had some success. Don't worry about the second breast. Baby may have just had enough for now. Full or tired. It's hard work for them to start with! Some babies don't always take the 2nd breast. Mine always does but sometimes just a little sip.

That doesn’t sound like a semi successful feed, but a fully successful. If it’s any help, mine only ever feeds from one breast at each feed 99% of the time.

A 20 min feed from one side sounds perfect. Now let his dad comfort him for an hour or two whilst you rest. And try the next feed from the other side.

I don’t think it was, he was still rooting and fractious when he came off. Have him to oh but still unsettled. He’s just wolfed town 70 ml of expressed milk.

I wish I knew what I was doing wrong.

@Decembertojanuary that sounds completely successful, not all feeds need to be long. Anything from 5 mins to 45mins is normal and fine! Think about how you eat - sometimes a big meal, sometimes a snack, sometimes just a glass of water. Babies are the same. 20 minutes on one breast must have been enough. Breastfed babies are pretty good at regulating themselves. They feed a lot when small but all feeds are not the same length. They can also be on and off a lot and it doesn’t mean they’re not getting enough. Have you read up on clusterfeeding too?

If you weren’t pace feeding the bottle that doesn’t tell you anything, if milk hits the suck reflex they’ll suck, they don’t have a choice. They have to work harder at the breast so they don’t compare. Being fussy at the breast also helps up your supply it’s not necessarily a sign of a problem.

@Decembertojanuary you aren't doing anything wrong. You poor woman. If breastfeeding was easy the rates wouldn't be low.

How are you feeling in yourself? It's bringing back such desperate memories for me and I wish I could help you.

If he’s still seems hungry, stop like you did and let your dh calm him down and walk around 10-15 mins with him to give you a small break, then try again on other breast instead of topping up

You are definitely not doing anything wrong. Remember your baby is also learning to breastfeed. And he's not even helping you by reading the books and taking notes on how to do it!

He'll learn. He's had a tongue tie snip already so he's adapting to that. (and if his feeding isn't easier in a week, go back to whoever did the procedure and ask that he's checked again as some do reattach).

You're doing a great job. Breastfeeding is a long journey and the beginning can be incredibly hard. I promise I'm speaking from experience. But you need to make sure you're eating, drinking, and sleeping. There's plenty of time for the feeding to come right but if you make yourself ill in the process then you won't have enough of yourself to give. Parenting is a long haul. Take care please. I didn't and the results were not healthy.

I feel bloody awful quite honestly. Angry and crabby and it’s really impacting on bonding with him. But formula won’t help with that so please don’t tell me to switch. I feel like drowning us both in a lake filled with cow and fucking gate.

I understand you want to give your little one the best start. But please keep some perspective. This is just one part of your journey, there are other things that will have much more bearing on how your little one turns out. We're in a developed country so you're little one will already have so many advantages and opportunities that many children don't. Breast or formula, it's over in the blink of an eye really. I know the emotional part of you probably wants me to shove it! But the logical part of you might register a grain to come back to later.

I absolutely wouldn't suggest switching unless it's what you want to do. The same as you shouldn't breastfeed unless it's what you want to do.

There's plenty of women on here who've overcome challenges like this so I'm sure you can do it if it's what you want to do.

We had a different outcome because switching was best for us and our family but I'm absolutely not here to tell you to do that. I just want to give you a big hug.

DS is only 1 so all of this is still quite fresh and I just remember it so well. I remember the sheer desperation, I had person after person telling me our latch was fine but he lost 13% of his birth weight so obviously something was wrong. The thing I want to stress is that it's not your fault. It's nothing you're doing. Your baby has to learn this skill too.

No one is telling you to switch to formula?

I know it's difficult and it feels like you're doing something wrong. You really aren't.

Has the tongue tie been rechecked since it was cut? They can reattach and also it takes some time for them to adapt to their new tongue movement.

I would switch to formula. Bf isn't working, it's not worth the clearly detrimental effect on your mental health to continue this nightmare