Breastfed baby and sleeping?

[Decembertojanuary]

Not sure where to put this!

Baby is breastfed, and I’m also expressing. Obviously this takes a lot of time overnight.

I’ve been sitting up in the lounge with baby from midnight until whenever he sleeps (usually around 7am.)

How do others manage this? Just struggling with it but on the other hand I don’t want OH getting no sleep either.

You poor thing! I hope you get some sleep soon. The sleep deprivation is so tough

You oh working does not absolve himself of parenting his child. I was suggesting good help presuming he would be getting up to go to work in the morning.

Or do it all yourself if you'd prefer, but either way, you can't sit up with an awake baby all night. You asked what other people have done and we have tried to get some sleep, we have tried to get baby to go to sleep. What you are doing is not sustainable or sensible for more than a few days.

What I did last time:

I slept in baby's rooms (mattress on floor). I went to bed 8pm when toddler did. DH minded baby either downstairs or in our room in crib til 11-12pm feed. Then he brought baby into my/baby's room and put him in his cot (I slept through this).

Baby would wake at 2am at which point I'd had 5-6 h uninterrupted sleep. Quick bottle of expressed milk followed by expressing whist baby fell asleep again- 60-90 total. Both back to sleep til 6am. Another bottle/ express. DH up at 7.30 with toddler.

So DH slept midnight to 7.30. He still complained cos he is a whinger but objectively he was getting a good night

No but at the risk of sounding repetitive here I’m really doing three jobs. One is breastfeeding, or trying to. One is expressing. And one is bottle feeding.

Out of those three OH can only really help with the third, and he does. This morning he fed baby while I caught up on some sleep. He also does a lot of nappy changes, all the shopping (I can’t drive post section) cooking (well, heating stuff up or just eat orders ) cuddles - I honestly can’t say this is a lazy or arsey man.

But there’s also a cultural sort of difference here. Bottle feeding is normal to him. His friends bottle fed. He was bottle fed. He will give baby a bottle at the first sign of fussing. Unintentional but to be honest he’s my biggest problem when it comes to breastfeeding. I have a horrible feeling it was because of him giving baby a bottle within an hour of him being born that led to this.

And parenting a child is more than breastfeeding, there’s a wider consideration. He’s the only earner currently and so that is home, food, clothes, breast pumps, tongue tie snips etc. He does need to be on the ball for his job.

OP the amount you are expressing is going to surge your milk production so be careful.

What worked for me
Breastfeed first, then top up with expressed milk from fridge from previous day.
Then express an hour or so later.

If you feel like you need to know exactly how much milk baby is getting, BF maynot be for you. You have to judge it my feed, weight gain and wet,/dry naplies. I could also tell when DD had had a good feed as she would go milk drunk and fast asleep when she was that little.

Have you tried different feeding positions? I couldn'y feed sitting up very well, i did better lying on my side and latching baby on as puts nipple in a different position. Especially if you are engourged, baby won't be able to latch on in sitting position most likely

But what your dh does or doesn’t do, really does make a difference

If you take all feeding methods out of the equation, however baby is fed, if your doing it alone, your getting less rest. I would say this to someone fully formula feeding, combo or fully breastfeeding.

Him working isn’t relevant as he isn’t working 24/7. Yes it might not give you more sleep. But if you feed baby however way you choose and it takes say 30 mins. Then if baby needs a clean nappy, burping and rocking back to sleep and that takes say 30 mins, surely you can see an hour shared out would allow you a bit of breathing space. Even if your not asleep, that’s 30 mins you can lie down.

In the morning, if you are feeding baby on and off all night, and baby is awake and fed at 6am, you dh needs to take baby to another room and allow you that hour or so before he goes to work or baby needs feeding again. Either to try and sleep, or just sit in peace or take a non rushed shower. Again, in reverse when he’s home.

I don’t really lazy but I can’t totally ignore how much weight he lost either. Plus he is so random. I think if left to his own devices (!) he would sleep ALL day and then feed ALL night but would be so tired and hungry he wouldn’t be able to feed ... good thing we don’t live in the Stone Age I suppose.

As it is I wake him every three hours for a feed but even with the usual nappy changes, stripped off, he often nods off at the breast.

@Decembertojanuary

No but at the risk of sounding repetitive here I’m really doing three jobs. One is breastfeeding, or trying to. One is expressing. And one is bottle feeding.

Out of those three OH can only really help with the third, and he does. This morning he fed baby while I caught up on some sleep. He also does a lot of nappy changes, all the shopping (I can’t drive post section) cooking (well, heating stuff up or just eat orders ) cuddles - I honestly can’t say this is a lazy or arsey man.

But there’s also a cultural sort of difference here. Bottle feeding is normal to him. His friends bottle fed. He was bottle fed. He will give baby a bottle at the first sign of fussing. Unintentional but to be honest he’s my biggest problem when it comes to breastfeeding. I have a horrible feeling it was because of him giving baby a bottle within an hour of him being born that led to this.

And parenting a child is more than breastfeeding, there’s a wider consideration. He’s the only earner currently and so that is home, food, clothes, breast pumps, tongue tie snips etc. He does need to be on the ball for his job.

He sounds like he's doing a good job. You may need to have a frank conversation with him about how to support you so you are both on same page. My DP was a sod for suggesting a bottle at first sign of fussing too. I had to say please can we try other stuff first and also put baby to breast first even if briefly. There's no point worrying about whether one bottle given post section impacted your ability to breastfeed now-it's quite unlikely and much more likely a combination of things. I know someone upthread said don't express but what you are doing is fairly common practice now where there are difficulties in breastfeeding . The most important thing is to do whatever you need to do to keep putting him to the breast with you both relaxed.

I very much doubt that your OH giving a bottle within an hour of birth has had any effect. And he should be parenting at night, work or not.

My baby (toddler) is awake far more now at 20m than a few weeks, so I have to work as well. Most babies are not sleeping through when their mums return to work, and somehow they manage, so I think he can manage one night feed now.

He might do nappies in the day and all shopping, and heating up food (why can't he cook?) but that's just the bare minimum that he'd be expected to do surely. It would be awful man who would insist on his sleep deprived wife, who couldn't currently drive, doing those things.

You need to rest. Where you are heading is not healthy, and this is where you need to start pulling together as a team, and delegate tasks that you can.

I could have written this, I've been in floods of tears trying to encourage my baby not to fall asleep on the breast (she would guzzle a bottle like it was going out of fashion!).

We were on a schedule of putting baby to breast, bottle top up and then expressing. It was crippling and didn't allow time for rest. I decided to drop the night time expressing and we began storing the milk I pumped in the day so my partner could give at least one bottle in the night.
I'm lucky I have a fairly good milk supply.

Eventually we decided just to stop the bottle top ups (our baby was putting on weight) after consulting the health visitor and arranged for her to be weighed after 2 weeks to check she was gaining weight appropriately. Our daughters average feed is about 7 mins at the breast. I still express once a day so my husband can give a bottle in the night.

Woah this sounds rough and very familiar!

Can you spend the next 4 days in bed with OH doing everything whilst you and your baby just feed and sleep, feed and sleep??? Trying to latch every time he stirs? So that way you both get as much rest as possible and also lots of chances to try feeding?

When DS was little and struggling, I would start pumping but only for a minute or so which got my milk started and also pulled my nipple out into a more feeding friendly shape. Then I had to properly shove it in (squeezed between my hand like holding a burger!) right to the back of his mouth whilst pushing his face into my boob. Scared me at first how forceful I needed to be but worked most of the time.

Sending coffee and biscuits! I know you think this is sustainable OP and you are ‘fine’ but as a previous poster has said nobody wants you to crash-which I did when baby was 6 weeks and it was a hell of a mess. I was triple feeding due to a baby who was a rubbish latcher as he had a difficult forceps birth that left him in SCBU with facial nerve damage affecting his latch. He had a tube and IV for a few days. I pumped, I bf, I topped up with formula, I had nipples ripped to shreds, we had thrush, I used shields, I had every bloody health professional throw their advice in the ring. I was exhausted, frustrated, tired, in pain etc at 6 weeks I crashed and it was bloody awful. Things that helped:
It looks like you are expressing 1-1.30 then BF why not switch this around? My baby wouldn’t Bf after expressing as he liked a faster let down which I couldn’t get after expressing.
Sleep is actually essential for your milk supply so make sure getting several chunks of it!
Some babies just can’t EBF (mine!) but combifeeding is a great way to feed its doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
After 6 weeks I personally got rid of the pump I found it stressful and painful and I spent far too much time attached to it when I should have just been enjoying baby snuggles and a cuppa. So we decided to try a BF which would be either work or it didn’t then give a bottle (firstly using up my expressed stash then formula). Baby was much more settled and happier with a full tummy and I was a much nicer person when I stopped dating the breast pump. Do I wish I could have EBF? sometime yes but it was about working out what was best for my family. On weekends DH did ‘night shift’ so I would get a ‘sleep through’ once a week to recharge. No amount of breast milk is worth your mental health please don’t forget that.

Your wanted to know what other people did, do what I did.

Baby's 1- formula fed
After feed at around 10pm, I go to bed with baby, sleep until about 1, feed change and back to sleep by 1.40. sleep until 3, husband and I would switch sides of the bed (baby in co sleeper crib) he'd feed, and also do the 6 am fed. We get up about 8, both having had a decent amount of sleep.

Once night feeds were dropped, we alternated nights instead. We continued this until I got pregnant with my second (14m) at which point my husband did all wakings for now toddler as she's still woke up every night, as I needed my rest being pregnant.

Baby two -accidentally breastfed.
8-11 -, my husband gets now nocturnal toddler to sleep. Meanwhile I cluster feed newborn.
Newborn sleeps in co sleeper crib again. Baby wakes for 10-15m breastfeeds every 2-3 hours. once during the night I express, as my husband tries to give the previous nights expressed milk. Baby acts as if she's being murdered, we give up and I breastfeed. Husband sometimes ends up going in with toddler at night.

Now, I'm usually up on the night more with toddler (who likes to be awake for 2-3 hour blocks overnight) and my husband gets the kids up etc whilst I lie in.

This has been out sort of pattern irrespective of who is working, trying to share them load.

I have nothing but empathy for you OP. I only managed a week of the breastfeeding/pumping/bottle feeding insanity before I gave up. If it's what you want to do then do it but make sure it is what you want to do.

I didn't really enjoy my son until I dropped the ball, he ended up being formula fed and while it isn't what I wanted it's what worked for us.

DS had reflux which I didn't know about at the time but I'm pretty sure it's why he wouldn't breastfeed.

Don't get me wrong, I say this a year on very calm and collected. At the time I was all over the place and emotional would have been an understatement.

I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong. This is pure emotion and hormones talking but it feels so personal. Feels as if my baby doesn’t want me and feels as though I make him miserable.

Oh OP, I could have written your post with DD 6 years ago (in fact, I think I did!!) Right down to the immense frustration of people focussing on me not the baby ("I don't matter!") and telling me I should feed lying down ("I can't feed at all let alone lying down!")

Are you expressing and then giving that milk that feed? I agree with PPs that if you can, try to BF before expressing, otherwise baby will be getting frustrated that the fast flowing milk isn't coming. Then if it doesn't work, DH can feed previously expressed milk while you express for that feed.

Has baby been checked for jaundice? Might explain the sleepiness, and the challenge waking them for a feed. Lots of daylight (I'd say sunshine but that is unlikely at the moment!) might help. I found feeding clicked more once DD became more alert after 3-4 weeks. Although tongue tie has been snipped it might be worth checking again in case it wasn't fully done. If you went private that should be covered under the same consultation fee.

There is an amazing Facebook group called breastfeeding yummy mummies- they are incredibly helpful, and you might get a lot of support of people in similar circumstances.

You are not a failure. Breastfeeding doesn't come naturally (hence all those babies that 'failed to thrive' in the past). I'm giving advice that I know I wouldn't have listened to at the time, but 6 years later I look back and can't believe how all consuming this was, how I ignored my own health and wellbeing, and how irrational I was. Ultimately, after 6 awful weeks it clicked and we breastfed for 2 years. And after all that, no-one would know! Remember that you are important too, you need sleep too! Good luck

@Decembertojanuary

I just wish I knew what I was doing wrong. This is pure emotion and hormones talking but it feels so personal. Feels as if my baby doesn’t want me and feels as though I make him miserable.

You aren't doing anything wrong! It's a really hard time and both you and baby are getting exhausted. Agree with everything said that partner needs to help in a different way even when back at work otherwise you will get even less rest than now.

I would also say persist for as long as you want to-it's ok to stop and there is a massive difference between giving up and knowing when you've had enough. Stopping breastfeeding isn't a failure, equally it's ok to keep trying. Are the health visiting team supporting you with feeding? Mine had a support worker who came and sat with me for a couple of feeds. If baby is falling asleep at breast does he always need the top up? Can you let him sleep and when he wakes offer breast again then top up if still awake and unsettled?

Coming back to this in the morning, did you mean that your pumping sessions take 90 minutes?

Unless someone very experienced and qualified has told you to do this, I really would limit sessions to about 30m.

My understanding is that such extreme pumping, as well as being time consuming, is unlikely to give you more milk, and isn't great for your or nipples. Also, if you are then going straight to baby on boob, they are going to have to work so hard to get anything.

Pumping from a dry breast isn't going to do anyone any favours. It's better to wait until there is more milk and give baby the first try! And then if it fails, then express, stop after half an hour, sleep for a couple of hours etc.

Hi OP

You aren't doing anything wrong, and your baby absolutely wants to be with you. Tongue tie is extremely common (I was told by lactation consultant it may be due to the folic acid we take - which is obviously vital).

I have been where you are and it was incredibly difficult. The difficulty bf plus expressing and feeding then burping was relentless. You will come through the other side , it won't always be this hard. You are learning and your baby is learning how to bf. Its not easy at all.

I ended up falling asleep on the sofa sitting up with my baby and also sitting up in bed and it really scared me - it is more dangerous than planned co sleeping. I came across the La leche league- Sweet sleep book and it helped me so much. It explained how to make the bed safe - the safe sleep 7.

La leche league often have local groups on FB and it is good to plug into these. Definite sanity saver for me!

Good luck OP. PM if you need to

I think you probably need specialist real life help, rather than a load of well meaning but mostly unqualified people posting on a forum.

Do you have a branch of NCT or LLL or Association of Breastfeeding Mothers (ABM) near you? I am thinking of free options considering you've already paid out for the tongue tie division.

Something is not right with the milk transfer at the breast, which doesn't mean you're doigg something wrong. On the contrary, you've gone above and beyond what most people would consider reasonable!

I'm loathe to give more suggestions when you've been overloaded with them, but a friend who really struggled like this in the early days found biological nurturing was helpful in terms of breastfeeding position.

OP you sound so miserable. This isn’t sustainable so whatever happens next can either be because you make a change or because things completely breakdown.
If you express overnight you won’t get any sleep.
You’re not doing anything wrong.
I have four children. Breastfed all four. The fourth was ANIGHTMARE. I had this thing where I thought everyone must expect me to know what I’m doing by now so I didn’t get help. I didn’t ask for support and the upshot was exhaustion, mastitis and mild pnd.
The answer for me was:
Pump in the day. Breastfeed in the day. Partner gives bottles in early part of night (7-1am) breastfeed between (1am - 7am) bottle in the morning and then continue.
Eventually once DC got bigger the expressing wasn’t needed and here’s a glimmer of hope for you: because the baby had been used to feeding more inearly even in and first thing the slept through earlier than the others.
This is a brutal time. You’ll get through it. But bottle feeding is also fine. It really is and it’s a truism that the happier you are the better and easier your mothering will be. So you are the most important consideration here.

Also just in case I will page @tiktok

Some people just don't produce as much milk and need to use formula.

I would keep expressing your own milk & give that in a bottle & top up with formula.

The most important thing is that the baby is fed & that you're well rested enough to look after the baby.

If it's not working with baby taking the milk directly from the breast then it's fine to use a bottle & then DH can help.

Set up times for expressing & times for you to sleep & DH to sleep.

It's not safe to sit propped up with baby on you all night - you could easily fall asleep and drop/smother baby. I'm not a fan of co sleeping but plenty on here have good advice. Much better in my opinion to make sure baby sleeps in crib/next to you if that's only way.

Try not to get so caught up in whether baby is BF or not - if it works that's fab - if not then it's fine too.