Breastfed baby and sleeping?

[Decembertojanuary]

Not sure where to put this!

Baby is breastfed, and I’m also expressing. Obviously this takes a lot of time overnight.

I’ve been sitting up in the lounge with baby from midnight until whenever he sleeps (usually around 7am.)

How do others manage this? Just struggling with it but on the other hand I don’t want OH getting no sleep either.

It sounds like you are exhausted. You are doing a great job in persevering though. My experiences in breastfeeding were very challenging. I tried the triple feeding you are doing for about six weeks before realising direct nursing wasn't for me and exclusively pumping-this meant my daughter only received breast milk till 8.5 months and then I introduced some formula as I weaned myself off pump. Ive stopped pumping at 10 months and have a little frozen stash so she will have some expressed milk till she's around one.

The order should definitely be baby to breast first - if you express first you are offering an empty breast which will frustrate him immensely. Sounds like you've already had latch and tongue tie assessed. Try hand expressing milk into the shield so he smells and tastes it easy. For top ups-paced feeding is a must- I know it feels like you just need to throw the milk in to save time but this is harming yourself chances of successful direct nursing as he sees it as a nice easy feed, breastfeeding will then become irritating and frustrating for him. Use the most breast like slow flow teats that you can. This is where your partner helping with even one feed could improve things as he can take time to do the feed in a paced manner, change nappy and resettle baby while you express. Even if he does this once per night it's quicker back to sleep for you.

Sitting up on the sofa isn't sustainable and as others have pointed out is dangerous as you risk being so exhausted that you fall asleep holding your baby. Even in these weird covid times you can form a support bubble-is there anyone you can do this with who can take baby out for lovely long walk immediately post feed so you can just sleep in the day?

You are doing great but it's hard to see the bigger picture when you are so bogged down so try and see the help people are offering on the thread as something to at least consider

The other thing I will say is that breast feeding has many wonderful benefits and is what our babies are meant to eat...however these benefits are at a population level. Sometimes in our individual scenarios it may not be what's best for you and your baby. It took me several weeks of attempting to directly nurse with me and her distressed and crying to realise that this was not best for either of us. I was quite anti formula too and now looking back it would have taken a little pressure off. Even pumping I probably did too long as in the end I was pushing my happy little girl away to play on her own while I pumped when she just wanted to spend time with me. It was hard for me me to see and admit that at the time though. Feeding is a very individual journey and I hope you find what is right for you and your baby without a persistent strain on your mental and physical well-being.

Would something like this help OP? It might streamline the process by combining the breast and bottle feed into one event: www.sweetcare.com/medela-special-feeding-devices-p-001688md?country=gb&curr=gbp&st=01&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsf3I-Mv37QIVQe7tCh01QAMyEAQYByABEgKlW_D_BwE

Oh bless you. I have been where you are with my first and it is exhausting. I wanted nothing more than to BF exclusively and nearly killed myself in the process of attempting to breastfeed 8-12 times a day and pump 8-12 times.
I unfortunately had next to no supply so when I pumped the Max I’d get would be 15ml and that was half hour of pumping in both sides.
How much do you get from an express session?
Your baby needs some blocks of sleep to have enough energy to breastfeed, sounds crazy but I’ve only just learnt this with my second! Are you currently waking him every 2-3 hours to feed? Or are you letting him wake you? If he above birth weight? Utilise the formula/expressed milk to your advantage, if you have to use it then use it to get yourself some sleep, I know it’s hard to reconcile that with your desire to breast feed but trust me you will have more success if you both manage to rest. If he’s above birth weight let him go longer periods. Even if you set an alarm for yourself to pump. Limit your expression sessions to half hour, even that is killer. Most of all be kind to yourself. Breastfeeding is hard. It doesn’t come naturally to most people, it has to be learned by both you and baby.
Pm me if you want to chat. Honestly I’ve been where you are and it’s a dark place to be.

Op I've read the thread and you seem to be getting a bit exasperated with the advice (said with understanding!).

I agree with pp you need to offer breast first. So baby gives you feeding cues. Try to breastfeed. Give it 30 mins of trying. If that's a success, great. No need to do anything else. If it's not, then if you've got expressed milk, give that. If you don't, then give formula. Then express the milk from that unsuccessful breastfeed so it's ready to go next time.

Don't worry about giving formula to prop you up if you need to.

Then you need to think about where you want to end up from here. If that's breastfeeding, then you need to get more help with your babies latch. If you'd be happy with expressing, then it's fine to stop offering breast if it's upsetting you both. Equally if you've got a time frame in mind after which you'd be content to move to formula, then how will you get there.

Fwiw I breastfed my first for 5m then changed to formula due to severe sleep deprivation to the point of not functioning. My second I breastfed for 4wks then tried to combination feed, got the balance wrong and out of fear of the whole sleep thing panicked and switched to formula. I feel illogically guilty about the whole thing. It's such a hard emotionally loaded thing. You want to do what's best for your baby. If you do switch to formula then know you've done your best, that's not a failure and your baby will continue to thrive. Mine are 6 and 3 now and both happy and healthy.

This isn’t sustainable.

Your husband can and should help. You need to get back to bed, not on the sofa.

Honestly the more bottles you give, the harder baby will adapt to just breastfeeding. I know you don’t like the sound of it, but it’s true.

Offer baby boob, every 2 hrs min daytime (6am-10pm). Sit in bed comfy to do this, top off and cover you both with a light blanket so baby has full skin to skin and your both warm.

At 7 months, a breastfeed now takes 2-10 mins long on average. At 2 weeks it’s more like 20-30 min feeds as they suck so slowly. It’s how they practice and their jaw muscles are so small at 2 weeks.

At night, get dh to pass baby from basket/ crib so you can get yourself into a comfy position first and sit in bed to feed. After baby is fed, if they don’t go straight back to sleep, Dh needs to take over cuddling, rocking or changing baby. That way, you should get a bit of time in between to rest.

Daytime, your dh needs to do all changes, bathing, rocking to sleep so you get to rest

If you choose to continue to express to top up, you need to express at set times, after baby has already fed. I wouldn’t express overnight. After first morning feed, and after mid morning best

I am a tiny bit exasperated because I’m tired and everyone is focusing on the wrong things. It doesn’t matter.

What are you wanting people to focus on?

As you will no doubt be aware, babies generally find it much easier to drink from a bottle as the milk flow doesn't take as much work as the breast. You're in a bit of a vicious cycle at the moment as he can't get the practice he needs on the breast to learn. Have you considered cup feeding your expressed milk to him instead? That may break the cycle for you both.

Sorry you're having a tough time.

Not what oh is or isn’t doing would be good

I'm sorry to add to the deluge of advice but I would gently suggest that tongue tie may be preventing your baby from finding it easy to feed - you did say you'd had it checked but with both of my babies the midwives in the hospital said there was no tongue tie and then both times the tongue tie expert infant feeding coordinator found there was a posterior tongue tie.

With my first, I was too scared to have his tongue tie fixed and so I drove myself absolutely bonkers feeding and pumping and washing the equipment and starting all over again. I don't recommend it. I was so tired I thought the pump was talking to me. I developed PND.

With my second, I got a private practitioner to fix his tongue tie, his feeding improved within days, and life was much easier.

This is a long post with a short point: unless your baby has been assessed for tongue tie by someone who really knows what they're doing, I strongly suggest you consider the possibility he may have a tongue tie (not all attach to the front of the tongue and present in a way that is easily seen). If he does, there's an easy fix.

Please be kind to yourself. Feeding and pumping and judging yourself is exhausting. I know because I've done it.

I know another, this is why I never wanted him to have a bottle

He’s already had a tongue tie snipped, it cost quite a lot of money.

@Decembertojanuary

I am a tiny bit exasperated because I’m tired and everyone is focusing on the wrong things. It doesn’t matter.

You asked how others manage this. The answer is no one could. Not for long. It's not sustainable. Something has got to change for you. So then you've got some advice in this thread on what might help.

@Decembertojanuary

I know another, this is why I never wanted him to have a bottle

Have you tried cup feeding lovely?

No, they did do that in hospital with him but to be honest while he is described as breastfed with formula top ups he’s really formula fed with breast milk top ups

I understand it’s frustrating for him and it makes me so sad that what should be lovely and bond us pushes us further apart. But when my breasts are bursting with milk and I’m sat there with a bottle of cow and gate it’s horrible.

As I understand it, it can take a bit of time after having the tongue tie snipped for the latch to figure itself out.

You mentioned the baby the baby is sleeping a lot during the day. This is really common at this stage, it’s like they have day and night completely the wrong way round. But it could also be because the baby has been awake for much of the night. Maybe try breaking that cycle with bottles one night so you are both more rested for a day of focusing on the BF?

That was last night, unplanned admittedly!

I’ve no idea what to do with his sleep. I’ve heard wake him every three hours which I try to do but he’s so sleepy he will sometimes doze off on my breast.

@Decembertojanuary

Not what oh is or isn’t doing would be good

I think people are saying your other half needs to help as they are recognising how unsustainable what you are doing is. Triple feeding is bloody hard. If not your partner is someone else able to help? Half an hours extra sleep or a shower can make a lot of difference to how you feel.

The bottle can feel like the enemy but it can be done in such a way to maximise chances of successful breastfeeding hence us all advising on slow teats and pace feeding. Cup feeding and supplemental nursing systems are alternates but given you have already said you don't pace feed due to wanting to get feeding done quick, cup and SNS will take longer to feed generally than a bottle.

People are mentioning your partner because you are clearly exhausted, and it's clear you need a break, which he is able to give you. Why on earth wouldn't we suggest that his other parent does something?

@Decembertojanuary

I’ve no idea what to do with his sleep. I’ve heard wake him every three hours which I try to do but he’s so sleepy he will sometimes doze off on my breast.

My health visitor (in the brief period I saw one before bloody lockdown in March ) commented that in a healthy term baby where weight gain is not a concern, you don't necessarily need to wake them at three hours so I used to go four-she was easier at the breast when less tired. Another option is to offer a small amount of formula before the breast feed so he's not mega hungry and has some patience to try at the breast.

OP this sounds hard. I hope your ok.
My dd 8 week old was a bit of a night owl. But we got her to stay awake a bit more in the day by changing her nappy to wake her up a bit. I understand if you dont want to co sleep it terrifies me too, but I do feed DD in bed. I put the light on and go on my phone. OH normally stays asleep but I nudge him so he knows I'm awake and feeding. He will keep an eye on me just incase I fall asleep so it hasn't happened so far. I usually sit up too. She actually loves my bed and would be happy to stay there all night and day Haha. She falls asleep so easily when we are snuggled up. Sounds bizarre but OH will get her mattress from her crib and lie on it (stay with me) while I'm doing her last feed around midnight, so its warm and smells like him then she sleeps well.
Have you spoken to your MW or hv? You need more support OP it must be so tiring :(

Because it doesn’t give me a break. Anyway, all I want is for baby to feed. I do appreciate the replies but to be Honest oh is helpful. But he can only do so much. And he’s back to work Monday in any event.

Expressing and trying to introduce a bottle will disrupt your baby's attempts to learn to breastfeed. Get it established before trying anything else. Sorry you have been advised so poorly.