Breastfed baby and sleeping?

[Decembertojanuary]

Not sure where to put this!

Baby is breastfed, and I’m also expressing. Obviously this takes a lot of time overnight.

I’ve been sitting up in the lounge with baby from midnight until whenever he sleeps (usually around 7am.)

How do others manage this? Just struggling with it but on the other hand I don’t want OH getting no sleep either.

But the instruction you gave me, to express three hourly and wake my OH up to give baby the milk I express, is nonsensical - it doesn’t give me any more sleep, it gives OH much less sleep,

• It's not an instruction, it's a suggestion
• You would sleep whilst he feeds and resettles so it would give you more sleep
• you only wake up OH if the bf doesn't work, not in a schedule

and it means attempts to breastfeed are null and void which obviously isn’t what we want.

The opposite, it means you are trying to feed baby when baby is hungry, and when you have lots of milk.

What does failing to breastfeed look like? Is it him not sucking? Is it latch? Is it you don't think he's getting milk? Is he not interested in nipples? Unless we know what's happening, we can't help.

Hey OP yes expressing is gruelling friend did 8 weeks before her baby could latch. I had a neonatal unit baby followed by feeding plans when I got home which included pumping and top ups.

The best thing I can say is establish a routine for the pumping with everything pre set up before you go to bed. Do you have a double pump? This makes it quicker and easier also a hands free pumping bra is a must. I found going downstairs to pump with Netflix for a 30 min episode would work. Would leave baby with dad if sleeping.
We also established a bit of a routine I would go to bed around 9 he had baby til midnight. I then took over mostly unless pumping til 5/6am then he would straight after a pumping session/feed and have our son downstairs so I could sleep.

If you can afford it I highly recommend seeing a private lactation consultant who can help you further with establishing BF and switching from pumping.

The golden Time for an overnight pump is between 1-3am as long as you get this one in should be fine so if you went to sleep straight after a pumping session around 9.30 then pumped when you woke up you then shouldn't need another pump til 4/5am which hopefully will give you another chunk.

As for sleeping do you

I expressed several times a day for a few months (I went back working v early.). The cycle shouldn't be taking you more than 20-30m. Have you got a decent double electric pump?

2 weeks old is still very young, hopefully you can get baby latching. There are some great ibclc’s on Facebook who might be worth a try? Lucy Webber and Lucy ruddle - both have great info.
No advice on expressing, but hats off to you as I haven’t attempted it yet and I’m 10 weeks in!

My LO is 9 weeks old and like you I struggled to breastfeed. According to the midwife they would latch on fine and didn't have any concerns about the latching technique. However I really struggle due to how aggressive on the breast my nipples were cracked and bleeding I even used a nipple shield but the outcome was the same.

I really wanted to breastfeed but the pain that it caused was affecting my mental health. I was advised by the midwife to preserve. Which I appreciate that with breastfeeding it's the only way but for my sanity I stopped and instead I express.

Expressing also takes a lot of time and effort as you have to pump on a schedule. I pump 8 times a day with 2 of them at night (currently sat pumping while typing). My main concern was that they weren't eating enough or if they were whether or not I was over feeding. But according to the HV perfectly on target.

I manage as hubby helps out a lot when he's not at work. He takes the LO so I am able to catch up on some sleep. However when he's at work and the LO is awake and I am due to pump. I always priorities LO I realised that as a first time mum you have to adjust to the baby not the other way round. So I will always priorities my LOs need first then once sorted I pump. When they sleep I sleep. I'm fortunate enough to be able to pump for 15 minutes and get anything from 7-14oz per session. (currently on 9oz as I type).

OP you do what's best for you and your LO. As long as your baby is fed that's the main thing. At 2 weeks they're still young and your still adapting to change. It does get easier with time.

Double electric pump yes. He just can’t latch. Thrashes around, cries hysterically (horrible to see) headbutts me.

So say between 1 and 4, it might look like

100-130 express milk
130-230 try to feed baby with lots of crying in both sides, lots of shushing, patting, reassuring.
230-235 breastfeed
235-3 tried to latch on again, hysterics.
3-310 five up and give formula.

So really it’s not the giving formula. It’s the failed attempts at breastfeeding. But then it’s time to express again.

With that timeline your are still expressing before trying to breastfeed. Why not breastfed first and only if that doesn't work (give it half an hour perhaps), do some expressing? And whilst you are doing that, your OH gives expressed milk from earlier, and then you sleep!

Have you tried nipple shields?

Yes using them. He can’t latch without,

Giving him a bottle now. I think after three hours breastfeeding wasn’t going to happen.

I don’t have any advice to add beyond what PPs have said already OP, but possibly some reassurance - my baby is now 4 weeks old and for the first two weeks he struggled so much with his latch. We had to top up with expressed milk from bottles etc and it was really difficult. But now just a couple of weeks on he has grown a bit and improved his technique and he reliably latches every time. Hopefully it will be the same for you and with a little more perseverance he will turn a corner

why not breastfeed first

Because we can’t. Just hopeless at it.

I hope so terra, it really makes me feel awful.

OP this does look like you are trying to BF immediately after expressing. I don’t see how there will be much left by that stage? Is baby getting frustrated because your breasts are empty?

How much milk is the baby taking from a bottle? You’ve said the top up feeds take 5 minutes. At 2 weeks I wouldn’t think that was a lot of milk?

If I were in your position I would focus on BF in the day and express at night. That will still protect/encourage your supply but will hopefully be less stressful than what sounds like really challenging night feeds.

I totally understand. I’ve never felt so bleak in my life as sitting up with my baby at 4am wondering what the point of me was if I couldn’t even feed my own baby. Nobody says breastfeeding is so easy but no one really says just how hard it can be either! And you’re dealing with exhaustion, mad hormones and recovery from birth all at the same time.

But for me it passed with time, we both got better at it, and now it’s just not a source of stress any more. At 2 weeks you are really at the coal face. I’ll be thinking of you and keeping everything crossed that it works out soon.

I think you need to change your schedule. The only person in your family more knackered than you right now is your baby. Personally I see little point in trying to get a baby to breastfeed for several hours straight. Perseverance is good, but you need to keep an eye on your baby's wake time too, or they'll get overtired and hysterical and won't feed and will be harder to calm.

Not always blair but there’s only so many hours in the day. Five minutes is an exaggeration I guess but it’s very easy to do. He won’t bf in the day much. Just falls asleep.

terra thanks, I feel like I’m being forced into formula feeding and it’s so frustrating.

@Decembertojanuary

Double electric pump yes. He just can’t latch. Thrashes around, cries hysterically (horrible to see) headbutts me.

So say between 1 and 4, it might look like

100-130 express milk
130-230 try to feed baby with lots of crying in both sides, lots of shushing, patting, reassuring.
230-235 breastfeed
235-3 tried to latch on again, hysterics.
3-310 five up and give formula.

So really it’s not the giving formula. It’s the failed attempts at breastfeeding. But then it’s time to express again.

Have you used nipple shields? Literally the only thing that helped a latch for me.

Yes that’s why I’m giving him a bottle now.

Yep he can’t latch at all without shields. I mean they don’t guarantee success but failure is guaranteed without them.

He is not 'baby'! He is 'my' or 'our' or maybe even 'the' baby.

You can't go on like this. You do not need to express that much, just enough for husband to be able to give your baby a feed sometimes. If he latches on well and sucks I'm sure he is fine, you will soon know if he isn't getting enough milk by his weight and nappies. However he is only two weeks old and you are still getting used to each other.

I agree that breast feeding is not as straightforward as we are led to believe, for most of us anyway. You can only do so much and you will be ill if you carry on staying up and awake all night.

Do try co-sleeping, it's marvellous.

Good luck but don't beat yourself up if in the end you abandon breast feeding, you're not a machine. Your little boy has already got a lot of antibodies from you.

I’m not sure what the issue is with calling baby ‘baby’ but he is my baby jess and I’m happy with calling him baby. Or his name.

you can’t go on like this

Well, yes I can. I mean, it’s not ideal but babies are awake in the night, I don’t mind this, it’s him being unhappy.

Believe me it takes around an hour and a half to get enough milk for one feed.

I really do want him to have as much of my milk as possible for as long as possible.

@Decembertojanuary

Double electric pump yes. He just can’t latch. Thrashes around, cries hysterically (horrible to see) headbutts me.

So say between 1 and 4, it might look like

100-130 express milk
130-230 try to feed baby with lots of crying in both sides, lots of shushing, patting, reassuring.
230-235 breastfeed
235-3 tried to latch on again, hysterics.
3-310 five up and give formula.

So really it’s not the giving formula. It’s the failed attempts at breastfeeding. But then it’s time to express again.

Are you pace feeding with the bottle? So not tipping too much taking breaks etc? If you Google pace feeding you will get a good description.

The fussiness maybe as a result of having to work for the milk with BF compared to the bottle. Bottles also hit a part of the mouth which causes automatic swallowing hence parents say but they are still hungry as they took a whole bottle etc. It's just a reflex. In terms of volume of bm to give from a bottle it's way less than formula needed. Kellymom online has a useful calculator if replacing a feed with bm.

Has anyone also suggested trying a dream feed to you? So around midnight/1am whilst baby is still sleepy/sleeping try popping him onto your breast before you pump if it works then you can pump around 3ish if not then your boobs are primed for milk release by baby.

Also suggest a hakaa for the other breast (keep a screw top bottle nearby) for when you do get him to latch and feed. Many mums use this to collect milk with minimum effort and it will give you a bit of a stash which also takes the pressure off. This works really well first feed in daylight morning or if feeling full.

Your doing brilliantly I know it feels like a life time but keep going, keep reaching out for support nobody warns you how hard it is but honestly it does eventually click and then become way much easier!

My advice would be don't attempt to put him at the breast at night. Pump, feed and then either try to Co sleep or put baby down. Then practice feeding in the day. During the day if your breasts are very full then express a little bit off so they are softer and then attempt to feed.

I exclusively pumped for my son due to latch. I would pump and then my husband would deal with all the parts like cleaning pump etc.

I have been able to feed my daughter and I've done nothing differently... So don't blame yourself. I tried shields with my son but I don't think he got any milk out with these!

You are working really hard for your baby to get breastmilk so well done. I ended up only exclusively pumping for 3 weeks it was exhausting. But I have no regrets at either doing that or for switching to formula in the end.

How is bf in the day when baby (the / your baby!) is more rested and calmer?

Also I recommend the Haaka bump that you just hang off your boob - it has suction - during a feed on the other side. Also this takes advantage of letdown so would need to sort bf I think to get it to work but then you can feed and express simultaneously.

I found expressing really hard worn my first, it’s a lot of effort for me and little reward.

I am feeding at night now and there’s no way I’d be leaving the bed to my husband to sit in a chair. Generally he’s in bed with me and can help resettle if I need it but sometimes he goes to the spare room (so lucky he can!)

I’m not pace feeding no.I don’t get a minute as it is.

I have to try to breastfeed when I can. As if I say I’m not going to try at night I might miss the one time I get a successful breastfeed in a 12 hour period.