Death Penalty?

[Ifailed]

Just seen a post on FB suggesting Priti Patel has asked for a paper on the restoration of the death penalty, now we have left the EU. Of course it could be completely false, but if true would you support the idea?

I wouldn't, simply because we know that innocent people in the past have been killed.

No! Personally I think that even if someone is 10000000% definitely guilty, killing them does more harm than good, it doesn't bring their victim(s) back, but does break another family, the killer could be the most evil person in the world but they will still be someone's son or daughter, father or mother, brother or sister. Lock them up for live and stop treating inmates to all the luxuries they currently get. Prison should be hard and uncomfortable.

Very much in favour of the reintroduction of the death penalty.

@WitchesGlove

I take it the point I was making about rewards and basic human "luxuries" being a way of stopping violence in the prison system, including violence against corrections officers and prison staff, went way over your head.

The thought of bringing back the death penalty makes me feel sick. And I would oppose it. However I also believe that if convicted, your human rights are no longer yours. Your victim had theirs taken by you. So cold showers, awful food, no TV etc should be standard. And a life sentence of 25 years should be that.

@ mrssunshinexxx - did you read about the case of Brandon Bernard in the US. At the age of 18 he was involved as one of 5 teenagers in a crime and received the death penalty. He was executed at the age of 40 having matured in prison into a completely different person, full of remorse for what he had done.

I don’t see that as “acting remorseful”, I see that as a person who changed, became better and was then callously murdered by the state.

Hopefully it will be put to democracy again one day and the public will decide

@Neveranynamesleft

This argument is as old as the hills. Like anything else, some will be for it and some will be against. If I was pushed, I would have to admit I would vote for it, but for 1000% sure guilty murder cases. I do not agree with keeping such murderers at the taxpayers expense.

How would this work in legal terms? Would you bring in a third verdict (fourth in Scotland) for the DEFINITELY guilty, in addition to merely 'guilty'?

And would it still be fair to give the ordinary guilty life sentences etc without knowing if they're DEFINITELY guilty?

Our justice system is a joke. Look at Ian Huntley, murdered two beautiful little girls and now he's got his own room, luxuries like computers and Internet access, just wtf? He's not suffering or becoming a better person, he's on his fucking holidays!

Prison is not even remotely like holiday ffs. If any of your kids were sent to prison, would you think 'yay it's like that time I went to Majorca'.

It's total loss of liberty. That's the punishment.

Personally I do not agree with the death penalty.

I find it unfathomable that anyone could think it is in any way appropriate to punish someone for taking a life by taking their life. I don't agree with an eye for an eye in any way shape or form.

I have had discussions with people over the years and they ask me "but what about..." . It's still a no.

The death penalty has no place in a supposed civilised society.

A guy killed his two little girls and his wife in the first week of lockdown. I don't know if they were beautiful or not. The story wasn't even the top headline for one day.

An electorate so manipulated by the media doesn't have the maturity to make these decisions.

“Our justice system is a joke. Look at Ian Huntley, murdered two beautiful little girls and now he's got his own room, luxuries like computers and Internet access, just wtf? He's not suffering or becoming a better person, he's on his fucking holidays!”

I read comments like this, then I think of the hundreds of comments I’ve read on here over the last few months where people have said that life feels utterly pointless, miserable, hopeless, not worth living etc because they can’t spend time with family, or go to pubs or restaurants. Some of them find the lack of those things so unbearable after just a few months they can barely imagine continuing to live under those restrictions.

I wonder if any of these the same people who also think life in prison is like being on your “fucking holidays” and that we should do more to make people suffer while they’re there?

I read comments like this, then I think of the hundreds of comments I’ve read on here over the last few months where people have said that life feels utterly pointless, miserable, hopeless, not worth living etc because they can’t spend time with family, or go to pubs or restaurants. Some of them find the lack of those things so unbearable after just a few months they can barely imagine continuing to live under those restrictions.

Not to mention that vast majority of people in prison aren't in there for murder. They are in for drug convictions, theft, assault, etc. The supposed goal is to rehabilitate these people so that they can be released and become contributing members of society again.

Keeping them locked in their cells for years at a time with cold showers and no mental or physical stimulation, and making them try to survive in a general populace of people who are bored, angry, frustrated, scared, etc, is preparing them for PTSD, not life outside.

Exactly. Imagine lockdown but in a horrible smelly building, under fluorescent lighting, shit inadequate tasteless food that you don't choose or prepare yourself, violence always imminent, and no access to your loved ones whatsoever.

If that's a holiday then lockdown is a five star luxury hotel which will make everybody happy and result in no mental health issues at all.

The problem with crime is that certain offences do not get punished. The majority of white males get away with far more serious offences than women and black males do. Take Ian Huntley. If the jury had convinced him of rape, instead of aquitting him, then the opportunity for him to kill and rape his child victims would have been greatly reduced. If society held different views to wife beaters, then he would have held a criminal record for hitting his wife. If his girlfriend's abusers had been punished then she might have felt strong enough to leave him etc etc etc. The fact is this man was as aquitted by a jury of rape, smiled at for abusing his girlfriend and accepted as 'one of the lads'. Allowed to carry on as normal after throwing his wife down the stairs and God knows what else. So he carried on. The same pattern prevailed with Fred West. A man convicted of kidnapping, raping and assaulting a woman, but it's ok, she's only a woman, so he received a slap on the wrist and the judge merely handed him a fine, yes a fine the same as you would receive for not paying a parking fine. He was given the green light to go right ahead, instead the message was clear. Don't mess about next time, kill the silly bitches, don't risk them staying alive to grass you up.

Prison is full of abused women. Women who's abusers were not punished. The majority are not child killing murderers. If they do kill it is usually in self defence killing an abusive husband or because their mental health problems have not been treated. Can you name off the top of your head half a dozen women who have killed strangers who have never wronged them? And women who have not been influenced by a male partner? No I doubt it.

Just to be clear. There is a huge imbalance as to how women and black males are punished compared to white males. Look at how many rapists walk free even though they 100% have committed a crime according to the law.

@bluegrass would you like to make prison a bit nicer for the poor wee souls that have murdered and raped? Ian Huntley doesn't like the prison food so has been allowed to use his prison job earnings to buy fish and chips. Has an xbox, TV and radio in his own personal cell. Sounds a bit better than burning in hell doesn't it?

Depriving people of their freedom punishes them and protects us. Beyond that, I want prisons to rehabilitate prisoners in an environment that is clean and safe, not just for them but for the people who have to work with them. Rehabilitation should be an aim even for those prisoners that will never be released.

Brutal systems have to be administered by people, and I think those people become brutalised by the experience just as the inmates do. These are men and women who have to leave at the end of the day and return to wives, husband, children. I want them to work in a positive environment where they feel they can achieve something good.

Articles I’ve read about the Swedish prison system seems to show that they have a good grasp of this.

Bluegrass That's a good point about the people working there. I also believe it would cause more deaths as logically why leave a victim alive to testify against you.

@EdwardCullensBiteOnTheSide

Our justice system is a joke. Look at Ian Huntley, murdered two beautiful little girls and now he's got his own room, luxuries like computers and Internet access, just wtf? He's not suffering or becoming a better person, he's on his fucking holidays!

Which prison is he held in??

@Bluegrass

Depriving people of their freedom punishes them and protects us. Beyond that, I want prisons to rehabilitate prisoners in an environment that is clean and safe, not just for them but for the people who have to work with them. Rehabilitation should be an aim even for those prisoners that will never be released.

Brutal systems have to be administered by people, and I think those people become brutalised by the experience just as the inmates do. These are men and women who have to leave at the end of the day and return to wives, husband, children. I want them to work in a positive environment where they feel they can achieve something good.

Articles I’ve read about the Swedish prison system seems to show that they have a good grasp of this.

A person has to be willing to engage in order to be rehabilitated- most aren’t.

Sweden is a completely different culture. What works there, won’t necessarily work here.

You can just as easily argue that the justice system in Saudi Arabia works really well because there isn’t much crime there- but no one is advocating that we cut off the hands of thieves etc.

@witchesglove Frankland.

Our justice system is a joke. Look at Ian Huntley, murdered two beautiful little girls and now he's got his own room, luxuries like computers and Internet access, just wtf?

Interestingly, Huntley was convicted by a majority verdict - as least 2 of the jurors thought he was innocent. He later admitted he was guilty.

Yet lots of people (Sally Clarke, Stefan Kiszko, Birmingham 6 etc) have been convicted by unanimous verdicts, yet later proved innocent.

Every wrongly accused person later exonerated was originally convicted by a jury which was 'sure' of their guilt.

The system is fallible.

Some posters need to think about the concept that people go to prison AS punishment, not FOR punishment. Deprivation of liberty is the idea here. This does not mean we need to dish out gruel and deprivation, which achieves nothing other than endangering staff and is pure vengeance.

Wildish, it was hard to prove Huntley guilty because he did such a good clean up operation. There was not really enough forensic evidence, I doubt the jurors actually thought he was innocent, but obviously without actual evidence they can't say guilty. This just proves how dangerous he really is.