Death Penalty?

[Ifailed]

Just seen a post on FB suggesting Priti Patel has asked for a paper on the restoration of the death penalty, now we have left the EU. Of course it could be completely false, but if true would you support the idea?

I wouldn't, simply because we know that innocent people in the past have been killed.

If not the death penalty then sentences of hard labour with only minimal living conditions.

It won’t serve as a deterrent, or we would never have had any murders after the 1960’s. Murder STILL occurred when we had the DP.

I personally think most of the comments on this thread are a load of pish.
When you have sat in a court and listened to all the details of our own child's brutal murder, and the evil little cunt is sitting smirking at you across a courtroom. The death penalty is all they are worth.
I'm happy to report after walking free the evil little cunt died(sadly no one murdered him) from a drug overdose.

Fucking hell, I cannot believe the amount of posters saying that they’re for this (even if only in cases where we are “really sure” or for paedophiles... like barbarism isn’t actually barbarism if it is applied to people who somehow deserve inhumane treatment!

No civilised society sees the death penalty as the answer. We are better than that. Maybe this government isn’t better than that, but we as a nation are. The very idea that it might be reinstated makes me feel sick.

@EreLongDoneDoDoesDid (the majority) of posters on this thread who are all for this are far removed from the reality of the situation. That’s likely why they are so blasé about it.

Did this come up in the news? If so, my immediate thought is "what is Boris trying to hide, so he quickly needs something to distract the public with?"

All this hard Labour etc. It’s been proven not to be a deterrent. Time and again. Yet in countries where they try to help those who are ill, and in which they accept that those of a criminal mind probably need help to change their behaviours have had far greater success.

BBQ1 Of course I would help my child, and yes there are records, but rather like those who confused a paediatrician with a paediophile, once the papers have a hold of things, knee jerk reactions such as those so clearly demonstrated here, take over.

Alternatively we could look at Nordic models - high rates of rehabilitation, low rate of reoffending. Prisoners are in the main treated like human beings.

Exactly.

Most of the people on death row in the US aren't serial killers like Ted Bundy, their black/latino men who started down a spiral of neglect, drugs, gangs and poverty from birth. Many are in and out of the system from a very young age and many have very low IQ's/brain damage. They end up killing someone in a robbery or high emotion situation that goes wrong.

If they had received the help they needed the first time they wound up in prison, usually for some minor thing like grand theft auto, burglary or possession, they could be stopped from continuing to slide down the slippery slope that ultimately leads to murder.

I know someone who was in charge with an experimental education/rehab program in Canada. They enrolled offenders in vocational courses, had them run a garden & farmers market and a bakery, taught them yoga and meditation, rehab and methods to help them cope with their anger, etc. Not only were those who participated in the program less likely to re-offend, but for those who remained in the system acts of violence and drug use decreased.

Unfortunately it lost it's funding because it wasn't "punishing enough" for the Conservative government.

@Jennygentle

It was abolished for very good reasons. Much as I would like to see child rapists/murderers suffer horribly, I understand why it has no place in a civilised society.

Yeah. I'd rather child rapists had their dicks cut off without anaesthesia, cauterised with a white hot poker and a pipe jammed in for pee.

People calling for the death sentence for paedophiles surely can't have thought this through. Most child abuse happens within families. Imagine a child knowing that they have been abused but if they speak out, Uncle Bob might end up not just in prison but hanged. What a burden to place on an already traumatised child.

Similarly where is the incentive for a rapist to stop at rape. If the penalty is death both for rape and for murder, might as well make sure the victim never tells anyone about it. Logically it would endanger women not protect them.

That's not to say I think such crimes aren't worthy of harsh punishment, they are. And sentencing often seems very lenient. But I don't think the death penalty would solve that at all.

I'm also not in favour of the death penalty because of its knock on effect on the families of the convicted person. They haven't committed the crime but they're being punished alongside them.

@WithLotsOfSprinkles0

Oh not too mention it would save tax payers millions a year not keeping prisoners in prison with their xboxs

It costs more to execute due to the legal processes required.

People need to grow up. Death penalty is a child's response to scary dreadful things happening.

Look to Europe not America on this one.

The death penalty is always wrong.

Look to Europe not America on this one

That ship sailed in 2016, I’m afraid. I fully expect the government to embrace American policies in all sorts of areas.

As for no death penalty because we are members of the UN, Trump threatened to pull the US out, and did in certain aspects. Shit leaders need a bogeyman to distract from their failures, and we no longer have the EU to blame for everything.

I know this is about the death penalty but it always intrigues me that some people who oppose the death penalty are pro choice re abortion.
And vice versa.

Death penalty applied or an abortion undertaken both involve the ending of a life.

I'm pro choice re abortion & for the death penalty in certain circumstances such as child murder/serial killers.

@WithLotsOfSprinkles0

Oh not too mention it would save tax payers millions a year not keeping prisoners in prison with their xboxs

You realize the x-box's are a reward for good behavior right? Same as being allowed out in the yard for fresh air and getting to go to the gym, etc.

Rewards for good behavior prevent riots and violent outbreaks in the prison, and is not just about protecting the other prisoners but also protecting the corrections officers and prison staff.

I suggest people who think prison is such an easy life read A Bit of a Stretch by Chris Arkins. It's an account of life in prison nowadays.

@ParkheadParadise

I personally think most of the comments on this thread are a load of pish. When you have sat in a court and listened to all the details of our own child's brutal murder, and the evil little cunt is sitting smirking at you across a courtroom. The death penalty is all they are worth. I'm happy to report after walking free the evil little cunt died(sadly no one murdered him) from a drug overdose.

This is why my stance is "I'm not for the death penalty". I could never in a million years sit and argue with you why that evil monster deserves to live. Therefore, I can not say that I am 100% against the death penalty.

I'm so sorry for what you have endured. X

Yes without a doubt for murderers, rapists, paedophiles. If you have taken an innocent person or child's life in the most harrowing and horrific way you don't deserve to be locked in prison for a few years getting 3 meals a day, access to gyms, tv etc you don't deserve your life in my opinion

Perhaps people who are keen on the death penalty could be required to form a pool of volunteers who can be drawn on to deliver the sentence.

I think if you’re so keen to see a life taken you should be prepared to be the one who pulls the lever or presses the button and then watches that person die. You need to experience the full weight of that decision so you can properly own it.

@Bluegrass perhaps the volunteers would be the mothers/fathers/husbands/wives/sisters/brothers/sons/daughters who have had a family member so brutally taken from them

No. Absolutely not. The law, and individuals' personal experience of law breakers, are not connected. The law must be about justice not vengeance. If taking a life is against the law then it's against the law, regardless of who takes the life (state or individual). We must surely want justice to be better than, the individuals personal desire for punishment.

Plus would you want someone like Patel or Johnson making the final decision about who lives or dies? It fills me with horror.

@ mrssunshinexxx - we could certainly go down that route, although personally that would feel like we were throwing away several hundred years of societal progress.

If we are going to say that the law is applied dispassionately (rather than merely being the emotional delivery of vengeance that would most likely do even more damage to grieving families) then let the people calling for it be the ones to do the killing.

Of course, I’d feel a bit uncomfortable knowing that the woman choosing butter next to me in Tesco’s had just that morning delivered a lethal injection to a terrified man who’d murdered someone 20 years previously and had bitterly regretted it ever since (you’d need to allow plenty of time for full appeals process so executions would likely be for crimes that happened a long time ago). Still, no doubt she would be feeling noble, and hopefully the ptsd of having watched him die, and the nagging worry that she herself was in some way a murderer would fade over time, eventually.

@Ifailed

I suggest people who think prison is such an easy life read A Bit of a Stretch by Chris Arkins. It's an account of life in prison nowadays.

It completely depends on the prison.

Which prison was he in?

Wakefield, Durham, Belmarsh etc are said to be awful, but Young Offenders institutes, open prison and medium security prison is not actually that bad.

@Bluegrass of course someone is going to act remorseful if they knew they were going to lose there life. I aren't arguing with you the op asked a question, we both answered it

IanTomHanks-

Rewards should be a lot more basic then.

Such as a hot shower, some biscuits etc

As others have said, if you are in favour of the death penalty because the accused wasn't convicted of a crime, then the death penalty won't help as people are less likely to convict. Unless we move to a jury system like America (which has lots of its own problems), there would likely be someone on the jury so opposed to the death sentence that they would not convict.

You can also never be 100% sure - evidence can be faked or planted - especially DNA evidence. Otherwise there would be no miscarriages of justice now. Confessions can definitely be co-eerced.

But I also agree that it is completely inappropriate for the state to have power over life and death. The solution to crime is not worse punishment, it's creating a better and fairer society - but also one where deeply disturbed people can be identified and provided with the proper care to prevent them from committing vile acts.

And yes, realistically it couldn't be used for cases where the victim hasn't died, because that creates an incentive for the rapist etc to kill the victim.