Death Penalty?

[Ifailed]

Just seen a post on FB suggesting Priti Patel has asked for a paper on the restoration of the death penalty, now we have left the EU. Of course it could be completely false, but if true would you support the idea?

I wouldn't, simply because we know that innocent people in the past have been killed.

I think the death penalty is more about ending the lives of people believed to no longer deserve to live (and wasting tax payer's money by keeping them)

If you go by the US, which is the only Western country with the death penalty, it costs far more to put someone to death than it does to hold them in prison for life. You are looking at at least 2 decades of costly appeals and re-trials, if not longer.

Lets not even get into the mental/emotional burden on the judge, jury, executioners and death row employees. Just because someone kills someone, it doesn't give society a right to force someone else to kill them in turn. It's barbaric.

@Fizzgigg

*I don't think it's about it being a deterrent - Being caught by the police isn't a deterrent, prison isn't a deterrent. People will do what they want to do regardless - death penalty or not.

I think the death penalty is more about ending the lives of people believed to no longer deserve to live (and wasting tax payer's money by keeping them).*

Patel's position is about it being a deterrent though.

Ok I stand corrected on that.

It CAN be a deterrent to some but not to others, like everything else.

OP's seen a FB posting.
Yep, I get everything from FB

What it did do though, was bring to mind Patel's long-standing support for the death penalty, and that now would be good time to do so if she was so inclined.

I have to admit that those who are saying the death penalty is barbaric confuse me.
Isn't murder itself barbaric??

Yes, murder is barbaric. But there is no need to respond to barbarity with more of the same.

Lets not even get into the mental/emotional burden on the judge, jury, executioners and death row employees. Just because someone kills someone, it doesn't give society a right to force someone else to kill them in turn. It's barbaric.

I doubt the executioner is being forced. Isn't it a job they choose to take?
But I see your point and frankly, I think both sides have a point.

On a slightly different note, I think it's morbid to watch someone die in that creepy quiet manner everybody there is supposed to assume. Goodness! Not entirely different from watching someone being killed out in the streets, except one is government approved and the other isn't.

I don't think it is a deterrent to anyone. I think if you're someone who wants to commit death penalty worthy crimes then consequences aren't going to change that at all. Patel clearly feels it's a deterrent but there's little or no evidence from US states with the death penalty that that's the case.

It’s trending on Twitter, seems to have stemmed from this tweet from Black and Asian Lawyers For Justice (link here and screenshot attached)

twitter.com/bamefor/status/1342495556732649478?s=21

Okay, I’ve not RTFT but I was on a Reddit true crime board where this was being discussed and someone linked to the below article about someone who was potentially wrongfully killed. It’s a long read and a great read - it’s the New Yorker. Goes into deep research about the evidence used to convict. It’s excellent and thought provoking.

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/07/trial-by-fire

I’m all for it.

Of course it doesn’t deter would be murderers but it is an effective way to remove evil from society rather than keep them locked up which allows them to breathe air, smoke, laugh, sing, imagine, dream, lust, wish, hope etc all the thing their victim or victims can no longer do.

I think it is a deterrent to some in the same way some people haven't committed any 'petty crimes' for fear of being caught (and not that they don't want to).

Not everyone who wants to commit a crime or actually commits one (and some often have a justification for it in their mind) is fine with being punished for it...not to mention die because of it.

I'd be in favour of the death penalty if we found a way to be really sure someone was guilty. If you were totally sure someone did something knowing that it was immoral, illegal and that they were in their right mind.
As it is we seem to be a bit random who gets convicted and who gets off.

In any case that is almost certainly another of those feeble attempts to make the UK look bad.

"Without the EU the UK will...."

Bring back slavery & mandatory racism
Prices will go up
Wages will go down
Marriages will fail
Dogs & Cats will start living together

It will rain all the time (ok that one is true)

Dogs & Cats will start living together
It will rain all the time (ok that one is true)

I doubt the executioner is being forced. Isn't it a job they choose to take?

Not necessarily. If no one volunteers they are assigned.

www.corrections1.com/capital-punishment/articles/how-do-i-become-an-executioner-zL4EHDYIjqWhmiLl/

@AlohaMolly

I agree with the PP that said the whole system doesn’t work. Prison doesn’t work. Reactive policing and imprisonment doesn’t work. The U.K. needs a complete overhaul (which wil obviously never happen) and we need preventative measures for our country, I think. Community support, village policeman, higher minimum wage, obligatory child support from absent parents, better funding for schools and community based social initiatives.

Didn’t we used to have some fairly successful rehabilitation programs that had a good success rate in preventing reoffending? I think a lot of the schemes got their funding cut under ‘austerity’ measures.

While we are able to give life sentences I don’t see any reason for the death penalty to remove ‘evil’ from society.

It would be much more productive to spend time thinking about the high levels of mental health issues, learning disabilities and drug problems among the prison population and dealing with the inequalities in society that tend to lead to increased crime rates.

Well we would be better off making life mean life !
Murderers should not be given a life sentence that sees them released a few years later to live out the rest of their lives in the community.
They should die inside . There is no justice for families of victims most of the time sadly.

Also, I’m not sure the fact that this isn’t possibly because of ECHR or the UN would stop Patel looking into this. She isn’t the sharpest tool in the box.?

A distraction tactic, but a very nasty one. Parliament will not vote for the death penalty.

[quote IamTomHanks]I doubt the executioner is being forced. Isn't it a job they choose to take?

Not necessarily. If no one volunteers they are assigned.

www.corrections1.com/capital-punishment/articles/how-do-i-become-an-executioner-zL4EHDYIjqWhmiLl/[/quote]
That's terrible but glad to know they're not exactly forced still and if you have a significant objection to it, you're excused.

Though I can see why there's still some element of pressure or force to it if you don't have a 'good' enough reason not to.

I also remember reading something similar years ago about the 'live' and empty rounds/real and fake injection, so no one knows who actually killed the prisoner.

It's such an awful 'job', either way.

The Justice system in this country is a joke.

I've watched the evil bastard who murdered my daughter walk free on a Not Proven verdict.
Yes, I'm I favour of the death penalty.

@ParkheadParadise
So sorry. It is a disgrace !

@AlohaMolly

I’ve been saying since last year that the death penalty will be the next policy that the Tory party will win the next election on. Over the next few years, there will be increased coverage on it in the media, murders will be given more airtime and the public will be encouraged into being whipped into a frenzy over individual cases. Then Boris (or whoever) will start making a case for it. We aren’t tied to the EU’s justice system anymore and I would put money on it being reinstated in Britain in the next five years, or at the very least discussed in parliament.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Hugely easy vote winner. Incredibly easy to stir the public up with media saturation of a few truly awful murders.

Though I can see why there's still some element of pressure or force to it if you don't have a 'good' enough reason not to.

I can't find where I read this, but if I remember correctly they get a bonus if they volunteer. Given that Correction's Officers aren't making a tonne of money, I think that's pretty sneaky and abhorrent.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

*I have to admit that those who are saying the death penalty is barbaric confuse me. Isn't murder itself barbaric??*

Yes, murder is barbaric. But there is no need to respond to barbarity with more of the same.

Exactly. The state and society shouldn't lower itself to the level of a murderer. We should be better than that.

I have (an adult) child who is likely to admit to crimes he has not committed due to his illness. Does that satisfy your 100% criteria?

@IamTomHanks

I think the death penalty is more about ending the lives of people believed to no longer deserve to live (and wasting tax payer's money by keeping them)

If you go by the US, which is the only Western country with the death penalty, it costs far more to put someone to death than it does to hold them in prison for life. You are looking at at least 2 decades of costly appeals and re-trials, if not longer.

Lets not even get into the mental/emotional burden on the judge, jury, executioners and death row employees. Just because someone kills someone, it doesn't give society a right to force someone else to kill them in turn. It's barbaric.

Not all US a states take 2 decades to execute someone.

Some only take 2-3 years.

(Not in favour of the death penalty, btw).

Have a look at some of the ‘botched’ executions that have taken place in the USA, including a mans who’s head was set fire and a man that had no veins left for them to inject him.