How much money do you think I should be taking off dd for board?

[shamus2020]

Dd is 18 she earns roughly £750 a month from her job. This will change in January as she is upping her hours and will get around £950.

She has no responsibility's other than she pays £60 pm for a phone contract. Doesn't drive but is planning to start taking lessons in the new year.

What do you think is a reasonable amount for board?

I find some of the posts on here pretty unbelievable. She's 18 and working of course she should contribute to housing costs, bills and food. If she were living on her own she would have to.

Obviously when a child is a child and in education they don't contribute. When they are an adult, if not in education, they need to work and contribute. Both financially and in terms of housework etc.

I find the attitude that they shouldn't very bizarre and not particularly healthy. You should be teaching your children to be independent adults that pay their way and do their share. Not rely on mummy and daddy for the rest of their lives!

Tell her calmly that if she cant give you the £100 (which is very reasonable) then she needs to move out.

So once children reach 18 it’s no longer your responsibility to feed them?

If they're working full time then why on Earth not? They're adults who should understand anyway by this point that nobody lives for free not every family can afford to pay for an adult working full time's living costs!

My dd paid 25% of her salary in board when she still lived with me and was working full time and it still didn't cover all her costs. In ops case this would be £200 approx. Where else could an 18 year old
live for £50 a week and be in a safe, warm and comfortable home and I'm guessing perhaps also has her evening meals and possibly lunches made for her, laundry done and her environment kept clean and tidy and in good repair?

I am disabled and on benefits and lost a significant amount of income when she became an adult. This will be true for millions of low income families inc those who work full time themselves but on nmw which isn't a living wage.

The dd will still have a bloody good deal compared to if they moved out!

A 12 year old is a child and not earning. If the family is on a low income they will be eligible for some state support for the child's living costs

All those of you saying 'nothing she's your child' your being able to cover all these costs comfortably makes you lucky! Not laudable! Especially this year!

Anyone that doesn't do this with their children once they're old enough, and teaches them the cost of living, is doing them a huge disservice

I totally agree

Both in terms of financial literacy and learning the humility and understanding of others circumstances (which you so clearly haven't!)

As a mature student twice over I saw the results of ill prepared 18/19/20 year olds who had been molly coddled by such parents and didn't understand basic budgeting, had little to no financial literacy and couldn't manage basic household chores - I'm talking basic cooking, laundry etc They also struggled with having entitled attitudes in some cases which other more down to earth students soon showed them wouldn't be tolerated! 'No I'm not doing your bloody laundry for you just cos you know I know how bloody well learn yourself!'

The key thing for me is that it’s been an ongoing conversation over several years about how much various things cost

Yes I agree

I had my first conversation with dd about this far earlier than I had hoped thanks to arsehole ex! Giving it "I pay hundreds every month to your mum to feed and clothe you" (which was bollocks anyway, he never even paid 2 months in a row let alone the full csa amount he was supposed to! I certainly couldn't rely on it for bills!)

No wonder there are so many stories of cocklodgers on MN, they're all learning it from their parents.

Yep! And it's not just men though at times it may appear so on mn, I've met women like it too. Think life/others owe them!

If you haven't already I strongly recommend you sit her down and show her in black and white what things cost.

When I did this with dd the "huge" amount of money ex was supposed to pay was clearly insufficient to cover half let alone all her costs and she saw that. As she grew older (and prices of course increased and our circumstances changed for different reasons, at one point not long after that 1st conversation I got a better paying job for a time and we were able to have a holiday that year, then a couple years later I became too unwell to work and her disability was dx which involved lots of appointments at a hospital a fair distance away and certain adjustments and equipment she needed so we had less spare money...) she understood that the household budget had to change accordingly and learned what were real necessities and what were luxuries or needed to be occasional purchases.

Far fewer adults would get into trouble with debt and financial mismanagement if they were taught and developed financial literacy.

Martin Lewis wants such things inc in the maths curriculum as sadly not all parents are able or willing to teach their kids this stuff. Which I totally support.

My ex in laws are lovely but they badly failed their kids in this aspect thinking they were "protecting" them from "worrying about money" as kids. 2 of them joined the army at 17 and went nuts with what is a fairly high salary for that age, plus they had minimal living costs which were mostly deducted at source (rent, council tax equivalent, mess food so "3 squares" were covered) all they needed to buy for themselves were civvy clothes, snacks and drinks and laundry detergent! So they blew money on nonsense AND ran up huge debts (as they knew they had a secure income for several years to come)

When I first met ex he had no idea he was charged interest for his overdraft and on the credit card he'd taken out! He was actually getting pure ripped off as both were pretty high for his circumstances before he'd run up the debt too. I was able to show him some info and help him move the debt to a lower interest option and clear it. He also spoke to his brother in same circumstances who was equally clueless and so we helped him sort things too. The parents had sort of assumed they'd look into and educate themselves! They were actually shocked they both had large credit card debt! They'd never even had a credit card themselves.

I've met/talked to people in their 30's/40's/50's who have no idea how savings and debt work, how to create and manage a household budget and have got themselves in some right pickles because nobody thought to teach them!

I'm sure those mners that work in helping and supporting people with debt and being on a low income will have had many similar experiences

@SnailortheWhale by my rough calculations the dd is working 30-35 hours a week? That is full time. Also there are millions out of work, 1.5mn have been made redundant due to covid alone this year and experts are predicting many more next year.

She's doing well to have and keep a job at all! Though she should be appreciative and grateful for this and not mess it up!

Op - time for an ultimatum then! A boob job?! She needs to get real! Nobody lives for free. I'm sure once she realises she cannot live elsewhere for that paltry amount (£12.50 a week!! That wouldn't even cover her lunches!!) she will see which side her bread is buttered!

My dd moved out to live on her own last year, it was a strange set of circumstances that led to this, partly she wanted to be nearer work (worked shifts) and partly she was initially planning on moving in with a friend and I think they thought they could create "party central"

but the friend then fell hard for a lad and moved in with him, but dd found somewhere very reasonable literally across the road from work and went for that anyway. She's grown up a lot as a result and certainly has made several comments showing she now appreciates what she had at home which she didn't fully before. She also noticed/notices more her peers who are in for a bit of a shock when they eventually leave home! A few of them have now headed off and are in 1st year of uni and it's been a bit of a "baptism of fire" for them, not only covid stuff but just basic common sense/real life things. One called in a tizz as she'd washed whites with new bright blue jeans and had a colour run catastrophe and dd introduced her to the miracle of colour run remover - and educated her as to laundry separation techniques (but also advised the use of colour catchers in the meantime)

Bills wouldn’t change considerably if she moved out

You sure about that? Mine have dropped 35-40% since dd moved out!

I live in a VERY cheap part of the country, I've just googled and average price for a room share here is £300 a month and while that includes utilities (and usually basic WiFi now too) that of course doesn't include food, toiletries, cleaning products, streaming services etc

I live alone albeit in a 2 bed (no 1 beds available where I am, house share not a viable option for me it wouldn’t be fair on the other person) and I’m roughly off the top of my head £30-40 a week for food and basic household products (I have ocd so I’m dis-counting the excess cleaning products), £1.50-2 a day for gas & electric, £18 pcm WiFi. That’s basic essentials and that’s already £60 a week!

Our jobs as parents are to raise ADULTS not children

Yep!

Op be honest - when she blew the £20 as a kid and her siblings didn't did you bail her out? This attitude hasn't appeared overnight! Take from this not only the need to address your eldests attitude but also that when your younger ones reach an age they can understand such things you need to ensure their attitude and financial awareness doesn't end up similarly lacking.

My sister is appalling with money, she's in her 40's now and has 3 dc of her own, my parents are STILL bailing her out every single month! Started when she was a kid she would blow her pocket money while brother and I either planned our spending and spent wisely or saved for more expensive items. Sister would blow it and straight away go crying to mum and dad separately and they'd EACH give her the same sum again! They've done this all her life and yet now wonder why she's useless with money! She's lost cars, even houses (yes multiple, she can no longer even glimpse a mortgage despite earning relatively well) due to to excessive spending on clothes, holidays, branded groceries, she won't get a bus or train if she hasn't a car it's always a taxi unless she can persuade someone to give her a lift, crazy amounts spend on the kids, designer clothes for them since babyhood, posh prams and insane spending at this time of year - because she KNOWS if she goes to parents with a sob story they'll bail her out yet again. They were starting to rein it in until she had her eldest but now she plays on my parents (totally unfounded) fear that the children will "go without" (she would NEVER let that happen.

My mum is genuinely worried she will become destitute and homeless after they pass (she won't she'll find some other mug to sub her) because mum knows because we have said so that there's no way brother or I would be willing or able to bail her out the way they have/do.

At this point the amount is well into 6 figures! Insane!

She argues that it's not upto her to run this house when I'm the mum.

It IS up to her though as a full time paid working ADULT to pay her own way! - she eats the food, drinks the drinks, benefits from heating and hot water & electricity supply, benefits from (if not actually using always - that’s another aspect you need to tackle) cleaning products or does she not wipe her arse?!, I’m willing to bet she’s using the WiFi and any tv/streaming services plenty! She’s taking the piss op! You know this I’m sure but you need to assert yourself - I know it’s hard honestly, my own dd is no saint she’s a total slob for starters, but you cannot and should not tolerate such behaviour.

The problem is none of her friends parents take money from them

Do you know this for a fact? One of dds less close friends had told her mum same. Mum contacted me and a few others to check - total nonsense! Only one wasn’t charging their adult child keep and that was because the child has a mild learning disability and was unable to find a full time job at this time (they have since found a suitable college course and I hope that improves their circumstances for their sake). The dd was just trying it on, banking on the mum being too embarrassed to ask others.

She called me a bitch and said she would rather move out

You REALLY need to stand your ground and call her bluff at this stage op. How much is a house share set up in your area? No way she will find ANYWHERE she can live for £50 a month! Even if she were taken in by some soft hearted friends parents would they tolerate long term if at all supporting her when she’s bloody well earning!

Right now in your shoes ALL “favours” would stop immediately. No cooking or cleaning for her, WiFi and streaming etc passwords changed, civil to her but that’s it! She is totally taking the absolute piss!

If she tries to draw others into your argument - I’m thinking ex? Then don’t be afraid or embarrassed to say exactly what has transpired or “protect” her, actions have consequences. If ex is aggro about it tell him he’s perfectly welcome to have her and support her himself! I have a feeling neither of them would fancy that!

You also might find you’re pleasantly surprised by her peers reactions if/when she tells them too. One of dds friends had a similar discussion with her parents, she was willing to pay keep but not the amount they set she only wanted to pay a very nominal amount. When she went out with “the gang” that weekend and told them she expected sympathy and ‘you’re right they’re being unreasonable’ and instead got ‘are you for real?! They aren’t actually asking for much and what you’re offering is a pittance!’ A couple of them inc my own dd had places of their own at this stage and put them very clearly in the picture as to what it actually costs to live on your own! Dd has a spreadsheet budget she emailed to her. While they were in each other’s presence and this girls jaw literally dropped as she exclaimed she had no idea bills were that high. She even doubted it at first. She went home and the next day was suitably contrite and agreed to parents terms.

Why are people having kids they can’t afford? they’re generally not! People’s circumstances have changed a LOT especially in recent years. We’re talking here about dc born 18+ years ago. Britain and the world were VERY different economically then plus people’s personal circumstances change.

When I had dd I was married, in a well paid job, fit and healthy - cut to 5 years later I was divorced (he cheated), unemployed & disabled. Ex wasn’t paying cm in any reliable way either as is the case with the majority of Nrps in this country.

Wages have been frozen so as to have been in real terms REDUCED rather than increasing, there are much fewer jobs.

She expects a lift into and from work cut that out too! She thinks she’s too good to use public transport?! I’m sorry op but I’m thinking a fair bit of this is of your own making! How did she become so spoilt?! I would suggest you need to look at if you have done the same style of parenting of your other dc too and if so start revising things. Not easy when they’re already I think youngest is 16? But it’s certainly not irreversible.

Re washing - let her go to a launderette! Or at the very least simply inform her washing machine hers X-day each week and you do your and the rest of the family’s laundry the other days.

How is her being spoilt down to your parents? Do you all live together ?

To put the wastage in perspective that’s £9k she’s basically frittered away due to her “I’m a princess who’s too good for this shit” attitude!

Nothing, that's not even minimum wage it is - nmw for 18 year old plus her NI and income tax deducted at source, possibly other things too.

If the grandparents don't live with you but are supporting and encouraging the attitude you're getting then she can go sponge off them! Bet they'd change their tune then!

[quote shamus2020]@EileenGC it's a total shit show. My parents don't help they've spoilt her her whole life.[/quote]
that's the answer then, let her go live with them.
then see how long they continue to idolise her.

She’s an adult and needs to start learning what that means. She surely can’t think it’s acceptable to squander her wages on crap while her mum struggles to put food on the table? When I was living at home I gave my parents a third of my wages, saved a third and spent a third. I’d ask her to do similar so about £250 a month contribution to the household

I think it's really good discipline for a working adult to be contributing to the household- it's part of a kid's education even if they're not paying market rates. They're still getting an idea of the cost of living.

When I was first working (early 1990s) I earned £107 a week after tax and paid my mum £30. That was substantial less than I'd have paid for rent, bills, council tax and food and I knew it. DPs didn't need the money but did want me to know the value of it by making me contribute to my costs. They were still subsidising me.

DS will definitely be contributing to stay if he's here when he's an earning adult.

Each to their own, though.

I charge mine £200 a month, my eldest once complained about having to pay so I jumped onto the rental section of Rightmove and showed him all the places he could live where he would get his washing, ironing, electric gas food and broadband for that price, precisely nowhere, in fact one property share had locks on all the kitchen cabinets for twice the price, he soon stopped complaining when he saw that

My 18 year old is at university altho still at home. She does have a job but it’s minimum wage so we don’t take anything from her. In fact we help her out, she can’t afford to run a car and I want her to be safe. But that’s just they way we do it and we can afford it.

I’m now 29 and at 18 I worked part time along side college just over 10 years ago. Out of around £400 per month. I gave my mum £120 plus my mother would of received around £200 as I was still in education.

Your DD needs to pay at least £150 and I would say £200 when her wage goes up.

Be firm OP if she doesn’t like it let her look at the private rental market and she will soon realise she has a very sweet deal.

I've never forgiven my mother for charging me rent for living in my own home. Maybe an unfair opinion but worth considering

I would imagine £100-120 pm is a fair amount. Still leaves her with plenty of spare cash.
I used to pay keep to my parents of £120 pm, back in the 1990s. My DM would then pay for my travel pass plus give me £5 daily for my lunch 😂😂

I think it's important to take something as it's a good life lesson now she is working full time. Personally I would take £100 per month but I wouldn't put it away for her. I think she should then try and save some on her own.

£50 a week?

I hates to see my mum struggle so I always paid. I used to pay £270 when I earnt £1000, still left me with loads of disposable income. If she's paying for £300-400 shoes she can afford to pay you £100/£150 a month!

I hated*

I always said I'd never take off my children but at the end of the day they need to learn life isn't free. I paid a small rent fee to my parents. They didn't ask for me but I did it.
I work with a group of people between 19-27 who all live with their parents. Their attitudes to "mum charges me £100 a month so I've only got £1000 to spend" is laughable. They're all trying to save up for houses and have no clue how hard it'll be and expensive.
I'd charge her a small amount to cover what she uses food wise and toiletries.

You are being more than fair with £100 per month.

@happilybemused

I've never forgiven my mother for charging me rent for living in my own home. Maybe an unfair opinion but worth considering

Huh? How old were you? Were you working full time?

Personally I've never forgiven the bank for insisting we pay the mortgage on OUR house.

For me you need to separate the rudeness from the finances. The way she is speaking to you is unacceptable and if she continues with then I’d be saying she’s welcome to find a houseshare.

On money, I don’t know why people think getting a % of salary from their children will make them better with money. I don’t think it does unless coupled with financial education. She could be paying her board and still pissing the rest of her money away.

I think the only thing you can do is go through budgets, show the loss from child benefit etc and make the case that she is costing x amount to house and should be contributing especially as your financial situation isn’t great. What are too doing about work if she’s earning more than you? What is the situation for your other children? I think it is one thing to ask an adult child to pay for the additional costs of housing them but another if they are subsidising the house household.

I paid £80 a month when I earned that amount but this was 10 years ago.