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SS's stance on reconciling after DV *trigger warning*

182 replies

allshakenup1 · 02/12/2020 23:27

Obviously name changed for this. Apologies if this is the wrong location - please let me know if there is a better place.

I fled with my baby (10.5 months) after a DV incident a month or so ago. Although completely and utterly wrong, it was a minor incident (pushing, shoving) and I felt compelled to report it because I was so shaken up.

I had a call from SS, which naively, I didn't expect and it completely terrified me - they advised me in no uncertain terms that my baby could be taken if I resumed the relationship.

At the time I had absolutely no intention to, however, I do trust that it won't happen again. My husband is devastated and is seeking help for his actions. I'm missing him dreadfully and so is my DD. I want to keep my family together but I'm so terrified that if I do, my DD could be taken away from me. She's breastfed and has never, ever been away from me before. She's an awful sleeper and has co-slept, practically in my arms, since she was 3 days old. I'm so devastated. I don't know what to do for the best.

Obviously there is absolutely no chance I would do anything at all to jeopardise my DDs welfare - however, I want my family. It was a horrid row that went awfully wrong. He's a fantastic father and generally a fantastic husband. I feel I acted rash in going to the Police and I feel like I've failed DD by separating her from her father.

If I was to go back, could SS take her? Surely they'd want to keep families together and work with them? I'm terrified.

Just to add - my husband is in no way controlling or coercive. I do not feel pressured to go back and this is 100% my independent thought.

OP posts:
BluntAndToThePoint80 · 03/12/2020 07:20

You’ve had some good advice on here OP from people who have been there and got the t shirt.

Please listen and protect your daughter. Going back will cause her such harm and that is what you need to keep in mind - if you can’t leave for yourself leave for her.

Otherwise, I do hope SS keep a very close eye on her and step in to act to protect her if you don’t. SS are not there to punish you, they are there to protect your daughter if you cannot or will not.

allshakenup1 · 03/12/2020 07:23

@FightingWithTheWind I'm here and I'm listening. I'm not sure if you've read my updates but I too witnessed abuse as a child and it has completely scarred me - hence the reaction to a push and shove, which some posters have questioned.
As I've reiterated, I don't want to go back. It was silly o clock, I couldn't sleep and my mind was racing a million times an hour.
Do I think he'd do it again? Genuinely, hand on heart, no. But I didn't think he'd do it the first time.

Another question, and thank you to the knowledgeable posters who have been so helpful - would SS have a problem with me moving back into my house, and DH moving out? This is something we've discussed. As grateful as I am to my parents, I don't want to be here forever.

OP posts:
OddBoots · 03/12/2020 07:35

There is a possibility your DH has a history that the police might know about (and have shared with social care) that you don't, it is worth asking that question when you are speaking to them about the process.

UseOfWeapons · 03/12/2020 07:37

Hi OP
Sorry to hear about your experience, but as with many others here, I think you are minimising retrospectively.

I’m glad that your DD is your first concern, but in my opinion, you will not be safeguarding her if you go back. DV rarely starts with a full blown physical assault, but by emotional, psychological, then physical boundaries being eroded... then broken. You would not only be doing your DD a disservice, but yourself too. I have no experience directly of SS in this situation, however, a close friend did, and SS forced her partner to move out and have supervised contact only, and her mother had to move in with her to ensure that she did not allow her DP over the doorstep in a moment of weakness.

Your fear of your DD being removed from you may help to keep you from going back, but if you do, it’s also more likely to make you reluctant to report any future episodes of violence, as you will be scared you’ll lose your DD. This is is something that SS are aware of, especially as, like many other women, you decided NOT to proceed to formal complaint and prosecution. Please, read The Freedom Programme, as other have said.

My second husband started by emotional abuse, manipulative behaviour, and love bombing, and when I moved to another country to live with him, I was isolated...no friends, family, job, didn’t speak the language or dialect. Escalation was fast, and he became very abusive and violent in all senses of the words. I was allowed out for 1 hour a day, and for the rest, was confined to an attic for 3 years. Having been brainwashed by him, it took a lot for for me to finally run for my life, having felt that I was the one who was at fault. The resulting harm to me physically and psychologically has coloured my life, but I beat it back every day.

I too am well-educated, have 2 degrees, have always been independent, and I’m back here in the UK, many years later, more or less whole. Education isn’t anything to do with the risk of DV, anyone can be on receiving end. Your psychology changes under the constant threat. As others have said, it’s not about anger, it’s about control.

I had no child,so perhaps that makes a difference to how I acted. Would I have moved sooner if my DC had been at risk? I hope so. His first physical action was to push me into a glass table, but within 6 months, he was throwing me against a wall and threatening me with a harpoon gun. There were no consequences to him of his behaviour.

Only you can decide what to do, but all actions have consequences, and right now, your DD is the one who must be protected, as you acknowledge. Please think very carefully about what is best for your daughter, as you seem to be championing a second chance for your DH. To what other violent crime would you give a second chance? If he’d attacked your DD, would you give him excuses?

My heart goes out to you, and you’re in my thoughts, but please don’t minimise your risk, and apologies if I have offended you by sharing some of my own story

SD1978 · 03/12/2020 07:45

@allshakenup1 -If there was even a hint of violence, I would absolutely not hesitate in leaving for good...... but according to you there was. You made a decision that you wouldn't accept him assaulting you, and you called the police. You've been advised not to return, what has your husband done since you left to help with his temper? Has he seen his GP or a counsel or? Or juts told you he's sorry? I'm sure you could contact SS to see if there was advice they could give if you choose to reconcile?

Crazycatlady83 · 03/12/2020 07:46

No one on here is going to be able to say that the social services will remove your child if you return to your husband. Do social services remove children from parents where one or both are violent towards the other. Yes. It’s called “failure to protect”. You are not protecting your child from witnessing and potentially being caught in the cross fire of an argument. This doesn’t even take into consideration the emotional harm to a child witnessing domestic violence.

If you want to resume your relationship, it would be much better to take the time to properly consider this and ensure your husband is engaging in therapy (there are specialise domestic violence perpetrators programmes - not just anger management) These programmes normally take 32 weeks and involve the victim as well.

Quartz2208 · 03/12/2020 07:56

First of all stop with the rhetoric that you did something wrong - you absolutely did the right thing to protect yourself and your DD. This is not on you at all. And in order to move forward I think that is something you need to realise.

Secondly there are two juxtaposing sides here. One from you downplays the incident to the point where you almost feel it was ok that it happened. The other is that the police have a flag on your house, would have gone forward I think if you had made a statement and Social Services contacted you - that tells me it was a pretty bad incident to have all of these things in place.

You do need professional support OP to make sense all of this in your head. Access this and take it from there. Based on your posts I dont think you are in the right mindspace to go back to the relationship at all

allshakenup1 · 03/12/2020 08:04

@UseOfWeapons that sounds terrible, I'm so sorry you went through that. You sound very strong and brave.

@OddBoots he doesn't, I've already spoken to the Police about that.

@Quartz2208 thank you Thanks I believe that SS are immediately alerted when there is a child present, regardless of the severity of the incident. The Police suggested the flag and I accepted this. Does this make a difference?

Potential posters - please read my updates before posting. I've made it crystal clear I have no intention to go back. This was a late night, cant sleep, rambled post. I was asking a question. It's really distressing to be told how awful I am because I'm wanting to go back and put my dd at risk, when I have no intent to do that.

I would consider, moving back home, with him moving out and I would like that to be a possibility. I don't know what SS stance would be on that.

OP posts:
CandyLeBonBon · 03/12/2020 08:13

Hi op.
I was in your situation a few years ago. My now ex had a scuffle with pushing and shoving. I was also the survivor of childhood abuse and Dv and had a ptsd flashback when it happened and called the police.
SS were informed and got involved.

I even posted on here about it, because all I wanted to do was repair the relationship, heal the wounds and move on. SS were very concerned and so I reluctantly agreed that he needed to move out. I also downplayed the incident (it was 'just' pushing and shoving etc) - as it turns out he trawled Mumsnet and found my threads to use in evidence against me to 'prove' he wasn't violent.

The thing is though, all I wanted to do was for us to repair the damage - to our relationship and the children. SS told me they considered the kids at risk which I was horrified at and the cognitive dissonance was awful - I felt I was living someone else's life. But my primary concern was my kids so he moved out.

The telling thing was though, was that even though SS were prepared to work with us to repair things, all he was concerned with was that they'd made him out to be a monster. It was all about him.

It was eye opening and ultimately made me realise that he didn't care about us, just about himself and how the world perceived him.

I ended up having to take out a non molestation order and he eventually ended up being prosecuted for stalking and harassment.

I know you've said you're not going back, but I wanted to help reinforce why that's an important decision. Best of luck Thanks

Jellycatspyjamas · 03/12/2020 08:20

I feel so embarrassed by all of this. I have two degrees, I'm a strong, capable, educated woman. If any of my friends, if my daughter came to me with this situation, I'd point them to the hills, yet I'm reduced to jelly.

Trauma doesn’t care how educated you are, it hits you in the same way, and your recent incident may well have brought up feelings from your childhood - it’s a perfectly natural response to the situation you’re in.

And no SS would have no issue with you returning to the family home and your husband moving out. That in many ways would be the preferred option as long as you’re safe there.

yetanothernamitynamechange · 03/12/2020 08:29

I wanted to add, you are not the only woman on here who considered themselves strong and educated and found themselves at the receiving end of male violence. I am ashamed to say I didnt leave the first time I got shoved/pushed which is ridiculous because I would have said women always should. I think you have good instincts and a strong wish to protect your daughter. It is normal to have late night wobbles and nothing to be ashamed of. I once spent the whole night crying after I had left. It was awful. I think you are doing the right thing in not going back. In my experience, even if he is truly sorry and would never do it again it is impossible to get that sense of safety with your partner once its gone. Men are, almost always, much stronger than women. Usually it is possible to ignore this or not even notice it but once someone uses their physicality against you it is very hard to forget. Basically most men could easily kill women if they wanted to. The lizard part of your brain would always be aware of that fact now, even if you know for a fact he never would.

allshakenup1 · 03/12/2020 08:31

@CandyLeBonBon your post has made me cry. I'm so desperately sorry you went through that Thanks
Your comment about the PTSD flashback has completely struck a nerve - pp's have said that my reaction doesn't make sense if there was more to it, but I felt it so strongly, emotionally. I felt that I was 7 years old again and I finally got the chance to make things right. Right now, I feel I've screwed things up. I have no doubt he would have just moved out in the morning if I asked him to. I feel I would be more in control in my own home, my own surroundings, in some sort of limbo and I'm scared to come back (without H there, obviously) in case there are repercussions. As mentioned up thread, I desperately feel like I've done something wrong. I may send you a pm. Is that ok?

I'd love to make my marriage work but I am slowly accepting that has sailed.

I will also look at the Freedom Programme. It has been recommended by all professionals.

I also need to get my head out of the sand and address how frail I am, mentally. I have always prided myself on being so strong, so positive and I'm a complete wreck (with a huge fat smile plastered on the outside).

OP posts:
allshakenup1 · 03/12/2020 08:38

@yetanothernamitynamechange that made me sob too. I'm literally sat here, a complete mess.
Even last night, missing him - he is, was, my best friend. We were always The Couple. The thought of being intimate with him completely repelled me. I'm assuming that's the lizard part of my brain working correctly (feel like the Queen wrt the crazy RF conspiracy theories saying that ) Grin

@Jellycatspyjamas that's really helpful, again. You sound so wonderful. Thank you.

I just want my DD home. I want my own bed. I want my mug back, as bloody stupid as that sounds. I was my sofa, I want all DD's toys, all her clothes. I want to eat marmite on toast for tea without my DM raising her eyebrows at me.

I just don't want SS to feel like DD is in any jeopardy at all, as she's not, she's safe. She's with her mummy and she is so, so loved.

OP posts:
LadyPenelope68 · 03/12/2020 08:47

Without meaning to sound harsh, you are totally minimising what has happened and this will be a huge red flag for Social Services. I’ve worked in child protection in the past and as you are someone who has witnessed violence as a child and are now in a violent relationship, this will be taken very seriously. You took the absolute correct steps to leave at the time of the incident and report it to the Police (who legally involve SS) and have done the right thing to protect your child. By going back, it will be seen as you are unable to protect your daughter. Please think very carefully about what future you want for your daughter (and yourself) and do the right thing to protect her. You’ve made the first step, get all the support you can and continue to protect your daughter from a violent man.

UseOfWeapons · 03/12/2020 08:48

OP, you ARE strong, and you have done nothing wrong. PTSD and C-PTSD commonly trigger flashbacks, and as a survivor of childhood DV, yes, I would recommend you get some help, as a good DV advocate and counsellor can help you work through things. Your H is the one with the problem, not you.

It is terribly hard to to get your head around this, and take the time you need to get to grips with everything. I had to do the Freedom Programme twice, as I was still mistaking good and bad people, my perceptions were that fucked up. I was a survivor of child sexual abuse, and rape, and my second husband knew all of that. I gave him excuse after excuse, hid how bad things were from my family, until I was back in the UK, when even now, I can’t talk about some of the things that happened. My 2nd ex was more than twice my weight, skilled in martial arts...and I’m 53kg strong, lifelong weight-trainer...but I couldn’t physically compete with him, and as a wise PP has said, your brain will never forget that he used his superior strength against you.

You will get through this, and there is light on the other side. But it does take time, patience, and a lot of love and support, which I was very fortunate to have from most of my friends and family. Tell people the truth, when you feel you can, as this may help you come to terms with the horrible experience you have had. I’m rooting for you, and I’m sure other posters feel the same way.

Lots of love to you, dear one, you can do this xx💐

CandyLeBonBon · 03/12/2020 08:48

[quote allshakenup1]@CandyLeBonBon your post has made me cry. I'm so desperately sorry you went through that Thanks
Your comment about the PTSD flashback has completely struck a nerve - pp's have said that my reaction doesn't make sense if there was more to it, but I felt it so strongly, emotionally. I felt that I was 7 years old again and I finally got the chance to make things right. Right now, I feel I've screwed things up. I have no doubt he would have just moved out in the morning if I asked him to. I feel I would be more in control in my own home, my own surroundings, in some sort of limbo and I'm scared to come back (without H there, obviously) in case there are repercussions. As mentioned up thread, I desperately feel like I've done something wrong. I may send you a pm. Is that ok?

I'd love to make my marriage work but I am slowly accepting that has sailed.

I will also look at the Freedom Programme. It has been recommended by all professionals.

I also need to get my head out of the sand and address how frail I am, mentally. I have always prided myself on being so strong, so positive and I'm a complete wreck (with a huge fat smile plastered on the outside).[/quote]
Honestly op I completely understand how you feel. I went through exactly those feelings and it was awful.

But you are doing the right thing. I doubt that this is isolated, it's just that you won't have spotted the signs because you've been through Dv and so you think it looks like X (my ex used to repeatedly remind me that it wasn't abuse because 'you've been through that, you know what that looks like. I'm not like that so I can't be abusive').

SS were very good at helping reset my thoughts around what is it isn't abuse. The freedom program was what made me realise I needed to be away from him. That gave me the courage to understand all the little things he was doing that eroded my self esteem, confidence and mental health.

I'm so sorry. Thanks

CandyLeBonBon · 03/12/2020 08:49

And please do pm if you'd like

RosyPickle · 03/12/2020 08:50

Did he push you three times OP? Two shoves, then again into the door which was hard enough to make you fall over? That sounds like a sustained attack. Even one shove is obviously not acceptable but to come after you like that is really scary. I wouldn't class it as a minor incident and I agree with PPs that you are minimising it. It's also bad that you're the one who had to move out. Regardless of the logistical difficulties, he should be the one to do that. It sounds as if you want your home back which is fair enough, maybe it's time for him to do the decent thing and find somewhere else, not just talk about it? It's so easy to say the right things but honestly what kind of man attacks you and then thinks it's acceptable that you're the one who has to go through all the rigmarole of moving while he enjoys the run of the house that should be his DD's home and safe place? It's you and her who have suffered for his actions and I don't see him rectifying that. I also agree that by going back, you're putting yourself in an incredibly vulnerable position, not just for abuse but in terms of compromising yourself. SS involvement should be a loud klaxon call that this is not ok, they've seen countless situations like yours and they wouldn't be saying what they're saying if there weren't serious concerns. I think once there is physical violence, even if it's 'minor', he's crossed the rubicon and further incidents are almost inevitable sadly.

trunumber · 03/12/2020 08:53

I thought of you when I woke up this morning. I'm pleased to hear you're feeling different, I worried that you would go back. You can do this OP, you sound wonderful, the love for your daughter is so so clear - she's very lucky to have you as a mummy, and she will know it.

SS will have no problem with you returning home and him moving out, that's absolutely fine. It's you and your daughters home.

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2020 08:55

So he assaulted you but you now feel you have destroyed your family?
I’m very surprised SS would have been that involved for one “shove” as well.

Lorianmando · 03/12/2020 09:07

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the user's request.

allshakenup1 · 03/12/2020 09:29

@UseOfWeapons you sound wonderful  I'm so sorry that you too have been through this. Your post is another helpful one.Thanks

@CandyLeBonBon again, that rings bells. It sounds like SS worked really hard with you, which is important for me to hear. I have no experience of SS whatsoever bar the visit they paid to our home when I was a child. I remember the fear that they were going to take me away from my mum (and dad), never to be seen again. I remember going upstairs and showing them my hamster and telling them how important it was for me to stay in my home because I cleaned him out on Saturday's. Just the phone call from SS, again, brought these memories back so vividly and that what has caused blind panic. I didn't appreciate that they'd perhaps work to support families, not punish them (me).

@trunumber thank you so much Thanks

@Hoppinggreen have you read the thread??

OP posts:
user1325352314 · 03/12/2020 09:34

You are grieving - the life you had, the relationship you thought you had, the future you expected to have.

Denial is normal as part of that and so is all the bargaining and guilt. You need to let yourself process those feelings rather than trying to force them away by trying to rewrite history or minimise what happened. He assaulted you and that cannot be undone now.

I don't read this as someone whose past traumas led her to "overreact" , what I see is them enabling you to react appropriately and take the right steps to put your daughter first. It gave you the power you needed to act.

The fact that the emotional challenges that have followed are tough for you is separate. Difficult emotions don't mean we did the wrong thing, they just mean we are a human in a difficult situation.

As mentioned up thread, I desperately feel like I've done something wrong.

I'd wager your sense of having done the wrong thing by responding appropriately to a violent assault is because the abuse you experienced growing up ingrained in you the belief that it was your fault, you deserved it and had to keep quiet about it.

Plus, if you can convince yourself this is all your fault and It wasn't really that bad then it a) makes you feel more in control and b) is a way of hiding from the reality of how your life has now changed.

Being abused and being traumatised has nothing to do with how well educated you are or your financial position. I'm sure you don't look at other abused women and think it's because they're stupid and deserved it, right? So why are you beating yourself up like this? It can happen to anyone from any walk of life. Some of us are more vulnerable but none of us is immune.

I don't think you would feel in control going back to the house where this happened. I get why you feel that way but it seems more of the denial. I think it would be harder to grieve and come to terms with the seriousness and permanence of this situation of you went back. Living in the space where it happened and the space where your broken dreams were originally formed - that's going to cause a lot of daily pain, no? But I do recognise the upheaval is another loss for you to process right now.

And unless your daughter was in a sound proof room when all this happened, you are kidding yourself if you think she was unaware. Even babies are affected by living in an environment where mum is being abused. Hearing violence through the wall as a child is terrifying. "Has mummy stopped screaming or crying because she's ok and he's stopped hurting her or is she dead? Am I next? "

I think a lot of posters, myself included, will have been terrified at reading a post by someone who sounds close to minimising the abuse they were subjected to and returning their child to that environment in the basis that "I overreacted and I don't believe it will happen again" (even though as you said yourself you never believed it would happen the first time - and no woman enters a relationship believing that man will one day abuse, assault, rape or murder her).

My mum never managed to leave and It destroyed all our lives. I ended up being abused as an adult too because it was all I knew.

When I left I missed my abuser, I missed my home, I missed the hope of him one day being nice to me, I missed the familiarity, I railed against the uncertainty and confusion and fear of not knowing what was going to happen next and all I had lost. I bargained and blamed myself. I felt guilty. I doubted myself.

A few weeks after leaving I even found myself thinking "well, I don't feel afraid all the time anymore, I obviously made a mistake leaving, I should go back". And then I heard myself and just thought WTF? Because I realised the only reason I wasn't scared was because I had left.

I know your situation is a bit different, but I'm sharing this as an example of how our brain can use denial and distancing in the early days of grieving. It can be harder to trust our judgement that we responded appropriately once we have the safety of time passing and the memory of how bad it was loses its rawness.

All of that passed. I survived. It got better. I did the Freedom Programme. I took up support and therapy. I reminded myself each time I wobbled or felt confused and overwhelmed that I needed to go forwards, not backwards. There is no amount of abuse that is fixable. Going back to it never erases it, no matter how much we wish we could. It's like trying to wash a burn out of a dress, you can't.

I hope you can get the support you need to stay gone. I do believe you can and will feel happy, secure and loved again even if the life you build is different to the one you imagined before. Flowers

allshakenup1 · 03/12/2020 09:36

@Lorianmando I'm so sorry that you've also been in this position. It's heartbreaking yet comforting to know that I'm not the first person to tread this path. The "I can't believe this is happening to ME" is such a poignant thought. I keep thinking that this is a movie, a nightmare, a terrible dream. I waiting to to wake up with DD starfished between H and I feeling happy and content. My baby and my husband, my family. Yet here I am waking up in the bed I slept in as a teenager, with my DD, staring up at the ceiling wondering every single possibility and catastrophising every scenario - why do things always seem so bad at night?! In the daylight, even in the rain, I can reassure myself that I'm doing the Right Thing and I'm not to blame for any of this.

OP posts:
MyGazeboisLeaking · 03/12/2020 09:39

OP, this is such a shock for you, I'm not surprised at all that it will take time to process.

The abuse you witnessed as a child - is was that your mum and dad, are are they still together? You reference them as 'wonderful', so I wonder if they have got through those times you recall and been able to have a stable, loving, safe relationship?

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