Fuckkkkkkkk, I told DD the naughty kids get the headteacher awards and then she went and told the other kids 😬

[Allwhiteeverythin]

School run is going to be fun today ffs

DD came out of school last Friday upset the same kid had the award for the 3rd time this term. She’s had it once since reception. I lost my temper a bit and just said “oh did they just give it to the naughty kids to make them feel better you already know how to behave” .

Which she then repeated to the other kids at school yesterday . Teacher told me after school and said she hadn’t realised this kid had had it 3 times (naughtiest kid in the class obvs).

They’re going to go home and tell their parents aren’t they?

Well its true and it is very unfair. The truth hurts though, op. However I can guarantee you you're not the only one thinking it.

@MintyMabel

Means the other kids don’t even try.

Perhaps the kids who are NT and for whom good behaviour is a choice, would be better served by parents who teach them not everything should be done for a reward.

I remember one particular time the entire class had to be evacuated out the class as Child was having a rage moment. They got honours award two weeks later for always trying their best.
How do you know this child wasn't trying their best?

They may be NT but they are still just children.

I'm sure all or most parents have explained to their children that some kids find certain things tougher/need more encouragement etc.

But that doesn't mean it's not hard for them to be constantly overlooked.

Like other teachers on this thread have even said; if the "bad" kids, and I am using the term loosely before you attack, are constantly rewarded to make the teacher's life easier then that's bad teaching. Or just not great adulting, really.

Why do the kids constantly have to manage their expectations/adjust their needs/wants/take the high ground?

Why can't the adults involved just do a better and fairer job?

Oh the attendance award. More and more schools are starting to realise what it is, but often not after pressure from parents.
They should be scrapped. Ridiculous that "inclusive" schools do these. Whenever I visit a new school, I ask if they do the attendance award and question how that works with their inclusivity.

Or if they have to stay, stuff like this should be mentioned in Ofsted reports. I don't care how well they manage their website I can see this before I step anywhere near a school.

Perhaps the kids who are NT and for whom good behaviour is a choice, would be better served by parents who teach them not everything should be done for a reward.

Most adults in the workplace thrive on acknowledgment of their hard work. Whether it's simply telling someone they've done well, or rewarding them financially. It's human nature. And it would not be helpful in terms of motivating people to do their best by only rewarding the workers that are late, rude, disruptive etc. Why do you think it would be any different for children? Or don't you think middle of the road children deserve acknowledgement for their efforts?

They should be scrapped. Ridiculous that "inclusive" schools do these. Whenever I visit a new school, I ask if they do the attendance award and question how that works with their inclusivity

I never understood how you can make a big deal about attendance on one hand and then on the other send them home cos their trousers were the wrong shade if grey...

I thought all kids knew that lol My kids worked it out straight away, the naughty kid didn't always get it but they got it a lot whereas everyone else in the class only got it once.

I remember my daughter came home to me one day and said she was going to be student of the week next week. I asked her how did she know and she said it was because she was the only one in the class who hadn't been student of the week yet and she was right .

Just own it. If anyone asks if you said that just say 'yes I did' so what, if they are a naughty little sod everyone will know that any way. I wouldn't make excuses. I am over making other people feel better at the expense of my/my families feelings.

This thread has highlighted that some schools do this ok and others don't - it's a problem when the ones doing it badly don't recognise that?

re: “we don’t need external validation in our family darling”
Perhaps - but IMHO kids value external praise far more than any from their parents and schools need to encourage everyone - even those that don't obviously need it - as PP said:
"Didn't matter for years I boosted them and their confidence. It simply wasn't the same"

I don't think that there's any way to explain it without making it clear that the teacher is trying to make a child who normally doesn't behave, behave better though. I wouldn't have wanted DD to repeat that either. Also, even though she understood why it was happening she did still think it very unfair and I couldn't blame her for thinking that really. If one of my peers (i.e. an adult) behaved badly I wouldn't think it unfair if they were rewarded too.

"Some children find it harder to sit quietly than others and need extra encouragement" What's wrong with having that repeated?

As for adult peers, you'd have to define "behaving badly." You'd also have to understand the whole story. Too often as adults we think our own perception is the right one when we only have a tiny part of the story.

@OhCaptain of course I made sure to reward all the kids behaviour - when I taught Y6 I made sure head boy and head girl were two of the 'invisible' quiet kids who never would have been voted in without me campaigning for them (was voted by staff and noone really knew them). I sent notes home and made calls home about little small acts of kindness, or something they'd finally learned after lots of effort. I gave each child specific praise and made sure they knew I noticed and appreciated them. But I didn't nominate anyone for a headteacher award unless they did something genuinely exceptional or were fighting against huge odds, like the child I mentioned, or a child who was dyslexic but spent ages writing me a wonderfully creative story, or the very popular girl who volunteered to spend a whole week missing her playtimes staying in at break with a girl who had a broken arm and no friends to stay in with her... a head teacher award is not the same as star of the week and its not something everyone should expect to get. Maybe some teachers are crap and give it to the same kids for no good reason, but I find it difficult to believe that many parents know the reasons for it being chosen, and therefore they have no right to tell their kids its just because the recipient is naughty, making a kid who might have desperately needed that boost feel like a piece of shit.

@ShinyGreenElephant that's great but while you sound like you do it exactly right, I think this thread highlights the sheer volume of teachers who just don't!

I do disagree though that parents don't have the right to say naughty kids get it in a case like OP's because in that instance it's true!

No, she doesn't know why he's naughty but he obviously is. She was fed up and she explained it in a simplified, maybe harsh but true way.

That teacher is the one at fault. If she hasn't noticed that the naughty kid has won this extra special award (we don't have them here thank God they sound a nightmare) THREE times in ONE term then she's just a bit shit at her job and it might make her cop on a bit!

You told your child the truth to stop them being upset - unfortunately you maybe didn’t phrase it quite in the right way and your kids shared ! I’ve had the same conversation with my kids (who don’t make waves and just get on with their work and are nice to everyone- so never get noticed) - but neither of them have been daft enough to repeat it ! Anyone that doesn’t realise that kids that struggle with behaviour get rewarded when they finally get it right is just naive .

Well, with 30 kids in class and only 8 academic weeks in there'll be plenty who likely also deserve it who haven't had the weekly award yet simply because there hasn't been that many weeks to hand it out in so far.

Although the awarding of it to the same kid consecutively/a few weeks apart would be annoying. That's happened in my DC's class too and it was also the "naughty" kid, interestingly.

Eeeek although I feel your frustration. I have four children two of which have been quite difficult at school at times and have all sorts of awards... One is good and quiet and shy and has all sorts of awards... And one of whom is a model student and has NOTHING. I feel so sad for her. She tries and tries and still... I am pleased the school tried to help the others by encouraging them but it can be hurtful for the already well behaved children. I have told her sinilar to what you said but in a slightly more diplomatic way and she gets it. I have also told her she gets my award for being a secret star. It helps a little.

@MintyMabel

I don't think that there's any way to explain it without making it clear that the teacher is trying to make a child who normally doesn't behave, behave better though. I wouldn't have wanted DD to repeat that either. Also, even though she understood why it was happening she did still think it very unfair and I couldn't blame her for thinking that really. If one of my peers (i.e. an adult) behaved badly I wouldn't think it unfair if they were rewarded too.

"Some children find it harder to sit quietly than others and need extra encouragement" What's wrong with having that repeated?

As for adult peers, you'd have to define "behaving badly." You'd also have to understand the whole story. Too often as adults we think our own perception is the right one when we only have a tiny part of the story.

If your child believes that every child who constantly misbehaves just finds it hard to sit quietly and needs extra encouragement it might work. But if they will know the child themselves they won't necessarily believe that and why should they?. Children who misbehave aren't always doing it because they find it difficult to behave. Some misbehave just because they feel like it.

As for adult peers, when I say "behave badly" I mean that if an adult consistently does anything wrong they aren't rewarded just because they don't do the wrong thing one day. If an adult turns up late for work every day they won't get promoted for turning up on time one day. Criminals don't get rewarded if they have a day where they don't commit crimes etc. As an adult, I appreciate that children are different but I'm not sure if I would see it that way if I was a child.

The education system is geared towards the extroverted and schemes like this forget the children who don't struggle in the "right " way. There will be kids lying awake at night or seemingly holding it together at school and lashing out at home but as they don't cause the school any problem they are treated like the happy kids and forgotten. I'm not saying that the kids who lash at school have an easy time but there are many children with hidden problems who could also do with the boost. They might not need the encouragement as often as another classmate who is struggling but some teachers can go a whole school year without rewarding some kids and I bet some of these kids under the radar could do with the encouragement too.

I remember a discussion about this in teacher training. Not such an issue in secondary but it does happen. The problem is the kid who's made an effort to improve really does deserve recognition for it. What teachers don't think about is the negative effects it has on the 'good' kids to be overlooked time and time again when they always do the right thing.

Clearly the school needs to assess their rewards system. You are absolutely entitled to air your concerns and have no need to apologise to the school in the slightest. You are fully entitled to both have and air your concerns about all school policies/systems.

Not your best idea to say it in front of DD but on the plus side she probably feels better about the situation now and others in her class who are always overlooked might too.

I'm a teacher and when it comes to the weekly awards/star of the week etc I keep a list to make sure that everyone has had a turn, but for a genuine reasons (which is sometimes hard to find!). Once everyone has had a go, it's a free for all and is done entirely on merit.

Nah you’re not wrong OP - and I say that as the mother of an ignored daughter and 2 difficult boys. My DD doesn’t get anywhere near as much recognition. This morning I overheard them bribing not one but three boys with reward/recognition just to go through the door. Mr DD last for the same recognition by doing extra extension work in class. The rest of the time she isn’t noticed because she’s well behaved and averagely intelligent. Such is life 🤷🏼‍♀️

Does Star of the Week actually have a positive effect on children’s behaviour?

Depends how it's done. This thread shows different schools run it different ways (even if "everyone knows" it's only used to reward badly behaved kids) DS's teacher ran it correctly according to existing research on motivation and behaviour but others don't. In fact (whispers) sometimes teachers use it more than one way in the same class.

Has anybody ever researched whether behaviour and self-esteem of children is generally better in schools which do this every week than in schools which don’t?

Dunno but you probably wouldn't get any simple conclusions from a research study, not only because schools do it different ways but also because there are so many other factors that affect behaviour and motivation between schools.

There is research in the area of behaviour and self esteem, not sure if it covers school reward systems.

Yes of course the research applies to them too. But in reality a lot of schools only have a few schemes to choose from and they don't have the resources to do more tailored schemes even if they know what they're doing isn't ideal. "Star of the Week" works best as recognition for all the kids, it's too big and too rare to be much use as a reward, but if using it as a reward scheme works for some kids and doesn't demotivate the others too badly then it will just have to do.

When DS attended a specialist behaviour management course they had a beautifully engineered and constantly adapated reward scheme based on research for effective behaviour management and for motivating kids to do well. But there were a dozen kids and several (specialist) staff to run it. Well, you do the sums.

"Some children find it harder to sit quietly than others and need extra encouragement"

it's a massive leap to pretend that it doesn't take effort from the children who DO sit quietly, why shouldn't they be encouraged and rewarded for their efforts? Because their efforts are consistent, so they actually work harder?

I have always found it very hard to sit still or not fiddle. I (usually) am paying attention but also making a task list, rewriting a memo and planning tomorrow’s meetings in my head.

ThatIsNotMyUsername I know what you mean, unfortunately, schools don't accept that as ok behaviour. My DS is just like that and he was always getting in trouble for it, but he always knew the answers to the questions being asked so he was clearly paying attention.

Some people learn in different ways

If your child believes that every child who constantly misbehaves just finds it hard to sit quietly and needs extra encouragement it might work. But if they will know the child themselves they won't necessarily believe that and why should they?. Children who misbehave aren't always doing it because they find it difficult to behave. Some misbehave just because they feel like it.

Raise them to give the benefit of the doubt. It is kinder on everyone, their kids and yours.

As for adult peers, when I say "behave badly" I mean that if an adult consistently does anything wrong they aren't rewarded just because they don't do the wrong thing one day. If an adult turns up late for work every day they won't get promoted for turning up on time one day.

But if an adult has an issue that makes it difficult for them to be on time, is it fair for them to miss out on promotion because of it? Not rewarding people who, for a whole gamut of reasons find it difficult to adhere to societal norms, is what's wrong with society. I am a working mum, with a child who has a disability, and 9-5 mon-fri doesn't work for me (and actually is unnecessary in my job) You don't think that has contributed to my lack of promotion when male peers are promoted above me despite their lack of experience and commitment? I'm told part of the reason I lost promotion at a previous company is because of a perception of not being as hard working because I have a later start time. We had someone who was dyslexic in our office. He was constantly at odds with others who just didn't understand it isn't as simple as not being able to read. He has definitely lost promotion because of it and eventually was first on the list for redundancy.

When we start teaching children not to base their assumptions on only the facts they know, then as adults they will be better equipped to make sure they aren't disadvantaging others.

it's a massive leap to pretend that it doesn't take effort from the children who DO sit quietly, why shouldn't they be encouraged and rewarded for their efforts? Because their efforts are consistent, so they actually work harder?

For the vast majority of NT kids, raised in a loving household, sitting quietly when asked is not a major effort.