Corbyn Suspended

[Sparklfairy]

Good. His arrogance and refusal to apologise (ever, for anything) has come back to bite him.

news.sky.com/story/jeremy-corbyn-suspended-from-labour-party-12117833

@ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN

Oh dear it’s back to making plans for the revolution and over throwing the establishment dinner parties for Corbyn and Co

The left have done this all to themselves with the help of Twitter

Bloody hell this.

@BrimfulOfBaba

Sorry, race is an absolutely incorrect and simplistic word there. Ethnic group/heritage/nationality would all be better. (Trying to get better at not using 'race's willy nilly).

There has been a lot of food for thought in this thread. Antisemitism has no place in any society let alone a party that is supposed to be for the many, not the few. I do think Corbyn handled some things (important things) badly. I also don't believe he is an an anti semite, and know there was a concerted push to remove him from power. It's all a horrible mess.

We don't give a fuck what you "think".

We - as in the majority of the British Jewish community - know Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite.

We have now been vindicated by the ECHR report.

How dare you try and gaslight us and minimise the experiences of an ethnic minority group of which you have clearly no knowledge?

@sebastian sincerely, it's not my intention to gaslight. I've not tried to minimise anyone's experiences. I am just sharing my thoughts on this, a political moment. Which I am entitled to do. But I am sincerely sorry if doing so has caused offence. I will refrain from posting further here.

We should not discount or minimise how Jewish people feel. We have a duty to fight antisemitism. Let's not deny it, for starters.

The EHRC report itself makes this specific point
See www.equalityhumanrights.com/.../investigation...
On Page 27
" Article 10 will protect Labour Party members who, for example, make legitimate criticisms of the Israeli government, or express their opinions on internal Party matters, such as the scale of antisemitism within the Party, based on their own experience and within the law. It does not protect criticism of Israel that is antisemitic "
Labour appears to be in breach of this by Jeremy's suspension.
The party’s own guidelines on responses to the EHRC report recognise the legitimacy of debate on it.
'"We have no desire to stifle legitimate debate and we recognise that it is important for members to discuss and engage constructively with the report and its recommendations"
See labour.org.uk/.../Publication-of-the-Equality-and.

By suspending Jeremy, Labour appears to breach both the EHRC report and its own guidelines while damaging the party on a day which should have been one of calm reflection. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

@Maireas

We should not discount or minimise how Jewish people feel. We have a duty to fight antisemitism. Let's not deny it, for starters.

You are right. I am deeply regretful that, without realising, I may have done this. I would rather be an ally.

OnlyFoolsnMothers“the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated” is likely to be referring to a study where when polled the general public thought that cases of antisematism in the party was 30%. Where infact it turned out to be 0.3%. Of course this is 0.3% too many incidents. And I am not denying that. However it is a similar incident rate to when Milliband was in power. Antisemitism should have been dealt with by Labour party leaders at all stages of the LP evolution.

Keir Starmer needs to apologise for not speaking up whilst he was on the front benches. I don’t think he could do anything but to suspend Corbyn if only to distance himself from him.

@Pixxie7 he did speak up though, regularly, in the PLP and in the media.

I just read the Labour part is probably going to split. I don't think it will.

I am delighted by this.

For JC to arrogantly make statements after the report, making this issue all about him, causing division, just demonstrated his arrogance adn egotism. He has no regard for the Labour party at all. He completely brought the suspension on himself, and then whines about everybody plotting against him. And that women defending him on PM last night. Saying it was all an plot by a cabal of Israelis! They just can't hear themselves can they?

How many times and how badly do JC his fan base have to lose before they start to consider that maybe they are the problem? They never get any better because they refuse to critically self-reflect. Its astonishing to watch. Its the same mentality as Trump, but in an entire organisation of people rather than just one man!

@bbbbbbbbbccccc

JC stating that the problem was overstated for political reasons is not calm reflection or constructive engagement with the report. Its making the whole issue about him and not about anti-semitism and its also feeding into anti-semitic tropes about Jews being behind conspiracies - stated more overtly by his supporter on PM blaming it on an Israeli lobby conspiring against JC.

I have seen various people on social media who have cancelled their labour part membership, cut up their membership cards and are crying out in horror at JCs suspension and hashtagging #istandwithcorbyn etc etc .

Genuinely wondering what their thought process is? I genuinely don't understand it!

@bbbbbbbbbccccc

No Noblegiraffe Starmer and his BREXIT REF 2 managed to undermine the Labour party

I would only have voted for them on this basis. A large portion of the electorate was crying out for the LP to take a proper stance against Brexit.

*And it’s not very honest to the public who are being driven by a sense of false Obligation and Guilt instead of being given bloody facts for a real chance of contribution.

FOG they call it on Mumsnet.*

@MrsNotNice
Did you seriously just say that people who refuse to accept antisemitism have a false sense of obligation and guilt towards Jews? A false one? That is pure antisemitism if so.

blindinglyobviouslight Corbyn was likely referring to media presentation of antisemitism in the party which clearly fed into the poll that showed the general public though antisemitism was running at 30% when in fact it was 0.3%. He apologised for the 0.3% referred to in the EHRC report. Which is the correct thing to do. The 'supporter on PM' will have to be accountable for his own words and actions.

This thread really is serving to underline the serious problem with anti Semitism in the Labour party. The number of thinly (and not so thinly) veiled anti Semitic comments couched as "if I phrase it this way, I'll get away with saying it."

The number of times I've had Momentum supporters say "we're not anti semitic, it's all a right wing smear campaign" then without pausing for breath, gone on to say something blatantly anti Semitic in the very next sentence!

They don't seem to realise the rest of us (moderate left, centre, right) actually listen to their words and work it out for ourselves.

Thank fuck he's gone - he made the Labour party so utterly unelectable they gifted that complete wanker BJ a landslide election victory.

And they still can't see it. They're still using "centrist" as an insult, FFS.

There’s a deep seam of antisemitism in the far left. It’s tolerated, even if it’s not shared, by many on the left in a way that it wouldn’t be if it were directed against any other group.

Danglingmod posted on the other thread about this:

’I think JC and his supporters sincerely believe he is an anti-racist because they don't hold anti-semitism to be racism.‘

I think Danglingmod is right.

When Labour eventually adopted the IHRA definition of antisemitism Corbyn tried to tack on an accompanying statement that blurred the boundaries of the definition (the NEC wouldn’t accept the statement.)
Corbyn says there’s no tolerance for antisemitism and that antisemitism was ‘dramatically overstated’ because sees the attitudes of many of his supporters as ‘anti Zionist’, opposing the state of Israel, rather than antisemitic. The problem is that many of his supporters ‘anti Zionism’ is actually calling things a Zionist conspiracy on Facebook or twitter ie blatant antisemitism.

@BrimfulOfBaba not a race as such, we are a 'People', we are many different skin colours and hold many levels of observance on a spectrum from Haredim / Hassidim all the way through to secularism. Some of us can trace our lineage right back to Biblical times. We share traditions that remind us of our agricultural desert origins and a history that constantly reminds us of how we've been forcefully banished from the countries we fled to after the Diaspora: Spain, France, England, Portugal and Eastern Europe for starters. We've had our own practices used against us - ever looked into the origins of where the term 'scapegoat' came from?
We carry the inherited trauma of the Shoah and are hard-wired towards antisemitism because we've faced it at every turn.

I'm glad the NEC have done this. It didn't come from Starmer, but it'll probably prove useful to him.

Many on the Left, as a PP said, don't consider their Jew hatred to be racist.

As for the BDS lot - Boycott, Divest Sanction - ask them which other countries we should apply BDS to. Oh wait - they're only obsessed with one country! I wonder why?

Aside from anything else, Corbyn is a shit politician if he thinks that yesterday, when the EHRC released a report detailing serious (and sometimes illegal) failings in dealing with antisemitism in the party under his leadership, was the right time to continue to bitch about how it was all a big plot to make him look bad.

He really can’t help himself.

@blindinglyobviouslight And that women defending him on PM last night. Saying it was all an plot by a cabal of Israelis! They just can't hear themselves can they?

Absolutely. I still remember listening to R4 slack jawed when the Labour spokeswoman said of Luciana Berger helping to set up The Independent Group "I'm sorry she feels that way" (classic non-apology) then following it up be saying "but I really think we should be looking at where their funding is coming from" and speculating TIG was being funded by Israel.

Absolute classic anti Semitic conspiracy theory of the most blatant kind - and she had so little self awareness she was prepared to blurt all this out live on national radio.

And yet there are still momentumites on this thread pretending there's no problem, or worse, repeating those same slurs.

They think they're on the side of the poor, and use the antisemitic trope of "rich powerful Jews" to justify their behaviour. After all, it seems like they're punching up! All this nonsense about finance, controlling groups, cabals etc. It's straight out of the Protocols which justified god knows how many pogroms.

I don't think Corbyn himself is a racist or anti Semitic but I did think his remark yesterday was absolutely stupid.

@Mumisnotmyonlyname

I don't think Corbyn himself is a racist or anti Semitic but I did think his remark yesterday was absolutely stupid.

The thing is, if he isn’t he’s a highly ineffectual leader than failed to take control of the issue, and caused a lot of damage to him and the party in the process. Or he is and that’s why he failed to ensure it was dealt with adequately.

Neither scenario is a win for him or Labour. Or even momentum.

As we've seen from some of the posters on this thread, the Left dont just have a problem with anti-Semitism, they have a problem with any group who doesnt fit into their narrow view of minorities. Denying agency to not only Jews by suggesting that they are being brainwashed by ' zionists' (the acceptable face of anti semitism) and denying agency to people of colour who have made political decisions different from how they think POC should behave is racist. We are not a hive mind. We have agency, intelligence and the ability to make our own decisions. I am a Labour supporter and am East African Asian descent. I have never felt so persecuted and 'othered' as I do when the hard left use arguments like the ones used on this thread against BAME members of the Cabinet. I disagree with Priti Patel but she has just as much right to be a horrible person based on her brain and thought process as a white person. It doesnt make her any less Brown, and it doesnt make her experiences of racism any less valid, and it doesnt mean she, or Rishi Sunak or James Cleverly have joined the Tory Party because they dont understand racism, or dont understand their own oppression or they have a master/servant complex. They have made a political decision because they believe what they believe. They have as much right to do that as any of the middle class white class warriors on the Left.