Strictly same sex couple (Nicola Adams) Not really a homophobe, it's just the mechanics that don't work....

[RumTruffles]

.....NOT MY WORDS. This was a conversation I overheard on Saturday night.

DW and I popped out for dinner for a child free evening. Was having a lovely time, before I unintentionally, but unavoidably tune in to a conversation at the next table.

A couple of brothers (I presume) had taken their mother out for dinner and the subject of Strictly and Nicola Adams came up. I tried hard to ignore, as I could tell this wasn't going to be something I wanted to hear.

One of the brothers, who was incredibly loud, stated that he "doesn't necessarily have an issue with the whole same sex thing but it's just the mechanics that don't work in a show like Strictly". Just the mechanics?! The mum went further and scoffed "Bah! Well the BBC have gone too far! I won't be watching Strictly again. They've lost me". Good riddance as far as I'm concerned. She then went much further and said one of the most disgusting things I'd ever heard "I mean, I was surprised they gave her a medal at the Olympics. It was obvious she was a lesbian even back then", to which all 3 of them mumbled in agreement.

I was about to say something, when the loud brother caught my eye and saw I was seething and he very abruptly steered the topic of conversation to something else.

Wise

I could feel my blood boiling. Do people really think like this?! Still?

I understand I am possibly throwing myself into the lions den somewhat, with the "controversial" strictly debate as I've seen this being discussed on here before a couple of years ago, but honestly, in 2020 are people still thinking that it looks "wrong" to see a couple of the same sex dancing?

The mother of course went to a totally different level of bigoted and is clearly just a horrible person, but it reminded me how this attitude still exists and it's f@#%ing depressing!

That's it really. Please tell me I'm not the only one who finds this attitude depressing as hell!

Not understanding why the bbc have done this has nothing to do with homophobia, dancing this style is one man one woman.

Just because something has been one way for a long time doesn’t mean it’s the only way, the best way, or that it has to stay that way.

Not understanding why the bbc have done this has nothing to do with homophobia, dancing this style is one man one woman.

Says who?! It absolutely SMACKS of homophobia. You can't just day something isn't bigoted when it is. That is exactly what it is and anyone who says it isn't, is in absolute denial.

If you were that close and they were shouting that much, I’d probably be more worried about Covid than people being homophobic

I am a little bemused about why this is necessary. It’s not a dating show or a sexual compatibility contest. It’s dancing.

I do agree with this but also think representation is important and if this can help 'normalise' (for want of a better word) same sex couples and lessen homophobic feeling, plus help kids who may be struggling with coming out, then that can only be a good thing.

Also I would potentially argue that male/female dancing styles have been designed that way precisely because male/female partnership has historically been seen as the only norm. There's no reason why it shouldn't be changed up.

@DizzyPigeon, exactly this.

A quick look at youtube suggests there are two different styles of same sex dancing. The traditional where one partner leads, lifts etc. In this case often the leading partner is identified by their style of dress. The other where it is a dance of two equals and choreographed like this. Lifts, leads etc swap between partners.

My favourite to watch is two men together.

Much as I disagree with the family you overheard I feel they have a right to have that conversation. If they had been advocating attacking Gay people or similar than it would be different but their views are disagreeable rather than hate speech and none of your business OP.
As for Nicola dancing with another woman presumably she has made that choice (I hope rather than being persuaded to do it for ratings) but I do wonder if it plays into the whole “lesbians are masculine” stereotype. Lesbians can dance with men in the same way that gay men can dance with women. As long as Nicola is comfortable with it it’s of no concern to me but it would have been nice to see an openly gay woman not being stereotyped in this way

Hoppinggreen, actually it is my business. I am from that community and we have fought for decades for equality and for laws to be changed. I wonder whether you'd think it was any of my business if I were black and they had also said they couldn't believe how many black people were now on TV..pc gone mad etc. Would that also be none of my business? Or is that different?

@Hoppinggreen

Sorry you had this experience OP.

As a gay woman I think I would have cried to have overheard that. Probably not at the restaurant but in the car on the way home.

I can understand why you were so upset by this but I would argue it is different to being black in that those people presumably didn’t know you were gay so their comments weren’t aimed at you whereas to air racist views in front of a BAME individual is a deliberate act.
Their opinion is disgusting and I am sorry you had to hear it but unless it’s actually inciting hatred they have a right to it. They are ignorant bigots but that’s unfortunately not a crime

@Hoppinggreen

Much as I disagree with the family you overheard I feel they have a right to have that conversation. If they had been advocating attacking Gay people or similar than it would be different but their views are disagreeable rather than hate speech and none of your business OP. As for Nicola dancing with another woman presumably she has made that choice (I hope rather than being persuaded to do it for ratings) but I do wonder if it plays into the whole “lesbians are masculine” stereotype. Lesbians can dance with men in the same way that gay men can dance with women. As long as Nicola is comfortable with it it’s of no concern to me but it would have been nice to see an openly gay woman not being stereotyped in this way

Would you be saying the same guff about “lesbians are masculine” stereotype if Nicola had long hair and dressed very feminine? Or is it only sporty women with short hair who aren’t allowed to be who they are in case it reinforces stereotypes?

It’s not a view I hold personally. I know that lesbians can have long/short/no hair and dress in a variety of ways
My point was that many People and the popular media do see lesbians as being typically masculine looking ( whatever that is supposed to mean) and that I think it would be good if Lesbians were portrayed in a variety of ways with a variety of looks. Nicola should present herself however she wants but putting her into what is seen as a “Male” role may reinforce some people’s views. I imagine some of the male dancers are gay but they aren’t encouraged into the female dancers traditional are they?

Maris are you saying that lesbians being “masculine “ isn’t a stereotype then?
Obviously it’s utter bollocks but it’s a view that is traditionally held

They are ignorant bigots but that’s unfortunately not a crime

That isnt the point though is it? No one is saying “lock them up!!” The point is that it’s absolutely distressing and depressing to hear.

How do you know they were brothers ? How do you know the woman was their mother ? Did you make assumptions about them based on their appearance ?

cats I agree and I have acknowledged that it must have been very difficult and upsetting for the OP

I’m sorry you overheard the homophobia, OP. I’m glad the Beeb has a same-sex couple on Strictly this year and I think most fans would be.

I mostly think the people you overheard are ignorant of how dancing works. As PP say, it’s really extremely common for women to partner each other.

Hell, my DGM who was a massive Strictly fan and went ballroom dancing every week until her late 80s would have loved this. At every social tea dance everywhere you’ll see women dancing with women - a bloke of a certain vintage is a rare thing when male life expectancy is shorter than female, there’s usually only one aged gent to share between every 3-4 ladies!

@TellingBone

It might need calling out on but you didn't do that. Just glared at them and assumed they changed the subject accordingly. If you feel that strongly why didn't you open up a conversation about it. Have you challenged or changed their view.. No.

@CatsAndEyeliner, I was more angry than upset. Maybe because they were strangers. When it's someone you know and care about who admit to these kind of views, it can be incredibly upsetting.

@BobbyEgg, I have challenged these kind of views before and I do believe it's important to do so In this case I didn't because I was worried it might get out of hand, which is never nice, but in the current climate, I was particularly wary. As I said, he was very loud and the wine was flowing.

I'm sure my teens will think its great. Nicola Adams is a lesbian though, not a man, so not sure why she can't have a male partner, unless the whole point of ballroom dancing is that you can imagine having sex with your partner.

I don't watch it - have they had gay men celebs paired with male dancers?

@Janevaljane, sorry, what?