Strictly same sex couple (Nicola Adams) Not really a homophobe, it's just the mechanics that don't work....

[RumTruffles]

.....NOT MY WORDS. This was a conversation I overheard on Saturday night.

DW and I popped out for dinner for a child free evening. Was having a lovely time, before I unintentionally, but unavoidably tune in to a conversation at the next table.

A couple of brothers (I presume) had taken their mother out for dinner and the subject of Strictly and Nicola Adams came up. I tried hard to ignore, as I could tell this wasn't going to be something I wanted to hear.

One of the brothers, who was incredibly loud, stated that he "doesn't necessarily have an issue with the whole same sex thing but it's just the mechanics that don't work in a show like Strictly". Just the mechanics?! The mum went further and scoffed "Bah! Well the BBC have gone too far! I won't be watching Strictly again. They've lost me". Good riddance as far as I'm concerned. She then went much further and said one of the most disgusting things I'd ever heard "I mean, I was surprised they gave her a medal at the Olympics. It was obvious she was a lesbian even back then", to which all 3 of them mumbled in agreement.

I was about to say something, when the loud brother caught my eye and saw I was seething and he very abruptly steered the topic of conversation to something else.

Wise

I could feel my blood boiling. Do people really think like this?! Still?

I understand I am possibly throwing myself into the lions den somewhat, with the "controversial" strictly debate as I've seen this being discussed on here before a couple of years ago, but honestly, in 2020 are people still thinking that it looks "wrong" to see a couple of the same sex dancing?

The mother of course went to a totally different level of bigoted and is clearly just a horrible person, but it reminded me how this attitude still exists and it's f@#%ing depressing!

That's it really. Please tell me I'm not the only one who finds this attitude depressing as hell!

JaneJeffer

@TellingBone

Me too.

@Janevaljane who said she can't have a male dance partner?

Because its a same sex couple? So presumably she's having a female dance partner?

Says who?! It absolutely SMACKS of homophobia. You can't just day something isn't bigoted when it is. That is exactly what it is and anyone who says it isn't, is in absolute denial

So why do you think you can dictate what constitutes homophobia and who is a bigot? Just because you want to stomp up and down shouting “you bigots are homophobes and in denial” to show how woke you are doesn’t make it true.

I thought two blokes skating together on Dancing on Ice changed the dynamic and not for the better. I think it will be the same when women are paired together on Strictly. Doesn’t make me a homophobe - I support gay rights wholeheartedly - this is the TV companies trying to be woke.

She's a lesbian, not a man. Why is she paired with a woman? It just doesn't make much sense, but I like Nicola so who cares really

Nicola should present herself however she wants but putting her into what is seen as a “Male” role may reinforce some people’s views.

So she should miss out because of bigots? People with those views are always going to have them whether they see stereotypes on tv or not.

are you saying that lesbians being “masculine “ isn’t a stereotype then? Obviously it’s utter bollocks but it’s a view that is traditionally held

I’m sure there’s many stereotypes about different kinds of people. It doesn’t mean someone who happens to fit that stereotype of a certain shouldn’t be allowed to represent their community or that we should only choose people who don’t fit this “masculine” stereotype to be the first to dance in a same sex partnership on Strictly.

I mean this it would have been nice to see an openly gay woman not being stereotyped in this way is just ridiculous. She’s just being herself.

There's a lot on this thread I don't get (or I do, but I think it's rooted in unthinking homophobia really). But what particularly confuses me is the idea that, as a lesbian, she shouldn't need or want to dance with another woman because dancing isn't about sex.

Nor is being a lesbian all about sex, right?

But as a lesbian, chances are the bodies she's most intimately acquainted with have been female. She probably feels most comfortable getting up close and personal with another woman. That's not about sex, but it absolutely is about the enjoyment of dancing with someone.

(And also totally confused by the 'but two women dancing together makes one of the masculine!' argument. What about the other woman? Does it make her masculine too? Will they have an on-set screaming match over who gets to lead?)

If I’d heard

“I mean, I was surprised they gave her a medal at the Olympics. It was obvious she was a lesbian even back then"

I’m afraid I wouldn’t have been able to keep from laughing.

Surely “the mechanics” refers to the physical differences between males and females and the steps/moves that can only really be accomplished with a significant size/strength difference. Obviously there are male/female couples who don’t have this, but they don’t tend to get very far. So she's 5ft 5 and must be very strong for her size if she is a boxer. Why couldn't she just have a petite dance partner?

I'm bisexual. I've had long term relationships with men and women. And I uphold other people's right to free speech and to have an opinion which may be different to mine.

I don't watch Strictly and couldn't care less about dancing. No idea what the thought behind having a same sex dancing partnership is. Surely it's just dancing, in which case isn't sexuality irrelevant here unless we're saying all the couples should be romantically linked somehow? And whilst I make no claim to know the history of dances like the Tango or Foxtrot, weren't they created for people of different sexes to dance together? In which case why do we need a same sex couple unless the dance in question was designed for two men or two women?

And with respect to the family's views, they are entitled to hold them. They may be small minded and homophobic. But that's not illegal and is not 'hate' speech. Many evangelical Christians consider homosexuality to be wrong. I disagree, but they have the right to hold that viewpoint.

I don't think it's the brightest idea to have same sex dancing, But realise that the BBC have to remain unbiased about this.

I used to do a lot of ballroom and Latin American dancing years ago, and the very essence of some dances, especially Latin American, portrays a kind of male-female , sensual and sexual kind of look and chemistry together.

I dare say it's wrong, to say that this can't be achieved by same sex persons, and may well look a bit odd from the norm, But people will still be entertained by it all, and dancing is marked by good footwork and posture mainly.

Because its a same sex couple? So presumably she's having a female dance partner?

Well yes. She is. But I'm sure she could have a male dance partner, if she chose to. You are the only person I've seen suggesting that she can't have one.

She's a lesbian, not a man. Why is she paired with a woman? It just doesn't make much sense

Because they are challenging societal norms. Because they want to. Because its different. Because why the hell not? There are many potential reasons why. I'm surprised you can't see that.

Why does it make sense to only dance with a partner of the opposite sex? That seems to be what you are suggesting

I think it’s more to do with the obvious physical difference between men and women. Men often have to lift the women in the air during many of the dances, this may indeed be more difficult for a woman to achieve. Depends on the woman though, I imagine Nicola Adams is athletically strong enough to achieve it. Plus someone as slim as Anton Du Beke managed to drag Ann Widdecombe across the floor so maybe anything is possible .

Ok, the homophobia, bigotry and misunderstanding in this thread is falling.

Op I'm sorry that you had to overhear such a ridiculous abs mean spirited conversation

Dancing wise. This is super outing but I used to be a professional ballroom dancer, and watching strictly gives me the rage as most of the pros are actually not that good (AJ had never danced a pro comp in his life before being signed for strictly and came 2nd in a UK amateur comp when they chose that moment to upstage the winners with their announcement of being signed by strictly. It was embarrassing for them. Anyway, I digress.

There is nothing in the rule book about a partnership needing to be one male and one female. Just one lead and one follow. There are literally hundreds of girl girl couples from aged 4 up to 80!! There's just not that many men into dancing sadly. Though thanks to strictly, more are taking it up. Are you suggesting it's wrong for 2 little girls to dance a cha cha together?? And that's more wrong than a brother sister combo (Kevin and his sister danced together until their late teens). Just because you dance with a partner doesn't have anything to do with sexual orientation.

Personally I think it's great for those little girls to see a girl girl couple on tv. Couldn't care less if Nicola is gay, just like no one gives a damn that ore is gay but dancing with a woman, mostly!

Height difference is also moot as in proper ballroom hold it doesn't matter if the height difference isn't substantial. Though admittedly it can look a bit mismatched in Latin. But how many pairings have there been on strictly where the "follow" is taller or as tall as the lead when there's much more appropriately heighten people partnered with others for no obvious rhyme or reason.

The power issue. This is true for a male male couple on the open circuit, 2 men, strong in frame skipping towards you in the quickstep, or whipping through a link step in tango. Much more dangerous and powerful than 2 women like it or not. Or msn snd woman. Despite Nicolas obvious strength and stamina I would argue she and her partner would be at a disadvantage on a floor with all the couples, however that rarely happens on strictly.

Also they don't have to do any lifts, usually you can't do a lift at all in normal ballroom/Latin comps (that's why len was always so against them ) but strictly have adapted this rule to make more exciting tv. But one lift lasting a bar of music wouldn't make one couple better than another

I don’t see how they can be judged fairly against mixed-sex couples when they might have a disadvantage.

The same way women who take part in mixed sex competitions for most physical sports with known disadvantages and risks of doing so - by the rules of the competition. With dancing, there will be levels of difficulty, quality of execution, and so on.

As pp said, same sex dancing isn't really that unusual especially for women, it's developed so far from its roots that it really doesn't matter (and many dances have multiple and many unknown roots), and most likely this is out of choice.

An encouraged choice for views, possibly, but that doesn't mean the choice wasn't there, especially in a reality show with celebrities who are invited and negotiate contracts on it. Some women actually prefer to do the 'male'/lead part with another female partner and some like the challenge of being the underdog. Whatever the reason, I can't imagine many could tell Nicola Adams to do something she doesn't want to do for something like this.

Just adding to gin's excellent posts, most dancing people I know don't really like male/male partnerships because a) dancing against them can feel dangerous (especially if you're a girl/girl couple) and b) they could dance with two girls.

Actually, most men I know (gay and straight) wouldn't even think of dancing competitively with a man. And it's not that they couldn't — we all muck about dancing same sex and reverse role at socials sometimes. But there are so many good girls about, most men would just pick an experienced competitor they'd have a good chance at winning with. Why bother tanking your results while one of you learns to follow if you can both place well dancing lead?

Girl/girl is really common. I'm a bit sad that from interviews it sounds like Nicola is going to take the masculine role, obviously she should do what she feels comfortable with, but I'd have loved to see a double the dresses, side-by-side mirroring style girl/girl partnership. It would be a lot more representative of what thousands of girl/girl couples were doing every week before covid.

Oh, and my preference would have been for a same sex week, where everybody swapped partners. That would have been really interesting to see.

If it was a private conversation at the table next to me i might roll my eyes but dont think you can " call people out" when they are having a private conversation over dinner.
The bit about shouldn't have given her an Olympic medal because she is gay is just ridiculous and
I wouldn't give these people the time of day but yes clearly a minority of people still think like that.
A same sex couple dancing in strictly may seem odd to the older generation and there maybe physical disadvantages with lifts etc but the strictly isnt exactly a level playing field anyway, people will get used to it and the more same sex couples are shown in the media the more acceptable it will become.

I'm not keen, but am waiting to see how it works.

I don't see why it matters given that it's dance, not sex.
Contestants are differentiated by sex, not sexual orientation. Will they be trying to identify gay professionals to partner with gay celebs? If not, why not? Either it matters or is doesn't.
Women who've never done frills find themselves in heels and sequins, men get a fake tan and a few feathers.
It's fantasy, rather than reality.

I'm not sure what the point of the changes is- we don't assume the dancers are straight because they are coupled with the opposite sex. In fact, my bigoted self tends to assume the male dancers are gay, unless we hear of a wife or girlfriend.

I won't be refusing to watch- that I think is born from homophobia. I'm just not sure it brings anything and would prefer it to stay the same.

I was going to add to my earlier comments, as @Ginfilledcats has also mentioned, that actually when I was dancing in a girl girl pair I'd have liked to have seen that on strictly to make it feel a bit more mainstream (not sure that's the right word, it was very common but I always felt that we were a bit second tier').

Also it does my head in that they do lifts, so I'd be happy if they just scrapped those 😂

Have they had any openly gay male celebrities on Strictly and did they have a male partner?

Have they had any openly gay male celebrities on Strictly and did they have a male partner?

Why do you ask?