To not feed DC the Father Christmas lie

[PeterRabitting]

Not looking for the MN angry responses of "let children be children for gods sake" etc etc but interested in hearing the intellectual views of any parents who've handled "Father Christmas" differently from the 'norm'. The reason is, I have a friend who has raised all her DC telling them there is no such thing as Santa from the outset. It has intrigued me a bit, as a mum of a baby. On the one hand part of me thinks that it's terribly sad and my friend's DC are missing out on the magic etc. But in the other hand her reasons do make some sense to me. She and her DH are atheists and so she argues that in the same way she tells her kids the science of life (eg she doesn't tell them there is such a thing as heaven) why would she fool them into thinking Father Christmas is real. She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it. She said her DC are critical thinkers and would question things like the scientific possibility of flying round the earth etc etc anyway.

She also says that her way encourages gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money because her DC know that their gifts come from mummy and daddy through love and hard work and do not magically appear / are not made by elves. My friend says that she installs a sense of magic into her DC through all the lovely family things they do and spending time together.

I'm uncertain but it intrigued me as I too am an atheist and if I'm not trying to persuade my child that heaven exists then why would I persuade them that Santa does? On the other hand... "let children be children"!

Does anyone on here "do Father Christmas" differently / not feed their DC this story?

Well, it sounds more earnest and serious than magical.

An alternate view as an atheist would be that having that belief as a child, then learning the truth would help the children model the idea that people have all different beliefs. That sounds more respectful of helping to understand others. No Father Christmas or tooth fairy etc is sending the message that any magical / religious beliefs are held by 'others'.

Sounds too try hard to me, and dull. Critical thinkers FFS.

I’d be perfectly happy to do this in theory, if my kids lived in a family bubble. I’ve never been quite comfortable with lying about Santa.

But ... my DC go to school, see other kids. What happens if I tell my DC that Santa is something “some people believe in” but that their presents come from me and DH not from Santa. And then my child goes and tells all the other children that their mummy says Santa is just something some people believe in? I’d have parents with pitchforks ready for bursting their DC’s magical belief.

But that's not really factual. Father Christmas isn't something some people believe in. It's not like religion where no one actually knows.

It's all a bit ' look at us being all different,my kids are far too clever for all that make believe nonsense'

Yawn.... bet it’s laugh a minute in their house.

Actually the more I think about this the more I think comparing Santa to religion is actually quite offensive.

We had one of these mini the mother angrily told the whatsapp group it isn't her fault if our children are stupid enough to believe something so ridiculous

We do Santa in this house, I couldn't imagine not doing it, I don't particularly believe in god but I think this is something special that kids love and I can remember so clearly the feelings on Xmas eve, listening out for Santa, excited the carrots etc were gone. It felt truly magical and i see the same excitement on my children's faces. I wouldn't take that away for the world.

The elves have to work to make the presents. They don't magically appear. Relatives send presents to Father Christmas to deliver as well. If dc choose something too expensive then other children might not get what they want.

You can incorporate dullness a sense of the value of money into Father Christmas make believe too.

We encourage our dc (whether explicitly or implicitly) to believe lots of things that aren't true - like the fact that they are 100% safe and stable in their family units, that teachers will be fair and can be trusted, that terrible things couldn't theoretically happen to any of us at any time, that their whole futures won't be limited by their gender, race and social class. This is totally appropriate, dc don't need to be confronted with some of the horrifying truths of the world.

Every family is free to decide how far their untruths to their dc extend - we've decided to do Santa, but it is completely fine for others to decide differently. I decided that the outcome for my dc would be better if they had that experience. I dont believe there is any evidence to say that such beliefs have any affect on dc's future critical thinking.

I don't think we were ever brought up with a belief in FC. I always remember knowing he didn't exist. I don't think we ever had big conversations about it, but we went shopping for gifts with our parents at a young age and gifts were always signed 'from Mom/dad' not FC. I don't feel very hard done by
When we have children I expect I'll do the same - I don't have any interest in making them believe and obvious lie, and Christmas is fun as it is even without believing in a magical man that delivers stuff down a chimney you probably don't even have...

She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it

I don't think it really is something you can leave open for children to believe if they choose, as you can with, say God - or even fairies. The presents arrive, which is a fact. Children will wonder where they come from. If you were to say "well some people believe Santa and some think it is your parents" the children are quite rightly going to say "well what is it then? You must know."

"Asking for a friend"

Uh huh

We’ve never told our DC that Father Christmas is real - the problem is, society does that for them and it would be social suicide (including within family circles) to be more explicit (ie by actively saying he’s fake/it is something “some people believe”) as they’d be bound to tell other kids.

Father Christmas is like a religion that you’re not allowed to criticise or not believe in otherwise your children won’t have any magic in their lives. Utter tripe, of course, my kids love Christmas and so do I.

I find the social pressure to keep the Santa myth alive quite incredible in a largely secular country - bet many religions would love as many devotees who allow no dissent!

Sounds a bit more about the adults then the children to me. However, couldn't you just tell the history of Saint Nicholas and explain that although he isn't real it's more of a representation and celebration of kindness, or something like that?

She also says that her way encourages gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money because her DC know that their gifts come from mummy and daddy through love and hard work and do not magically appear / are not made by elves. My friend says that she installs a sense of magic into her DC through all the lovely family things they do and spending time together.

I take issue with this. I grew up believing in Father Christmas and I am extremely appreciative, mindful and grateful to my parents. I look back now and see how hard they worked and how much love and effort they put into the magic of Christmas and am forever grateful for the best memories of my childhood.
My children believe in Father Christmas and we also do a lot as a family that we hope will be wonderful for them to look back on. I can’t understand this whole idea that believing in Father Christmas these days is damaging. Screams ‘oh look at us, we’re too intellectual for such childish things’

Also all dc question how he fits down the chimney and flys around the earth. That's why he's magic- if it was all reasonable and possible he'd hardly need any magic flying reindeer would he. I don't know why this in winding me up so much 🙈
I'd also suggest that most kids when asked their favourite thing about Christmas in the aftermath would probably say the same as non believers so it's not the only magic. And I hope my kids will still express gratitude to Santa and his hardworking elves as well as everyone else who gives them gifts- whether they cost money or not. Ok I'm definitely done now. I've to go examine my brain and figure out have i just not had enough coffee or am I gone around the bend

In my house, father Christmas brings one present for each child each. The rest are from us, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. I remember when I was a child I could never understand why my friends got so much more from santa than I did. It felt really unfair. It also helps the ' how does he fit it all in his sleigh, how does he have time to deliver them all' questions, as i tell them he only has a couple of gifts to drop off at each house. I do completely understand why some parents just tell the truth from the start though.

' Magical thinking' is also a developmental stage that helps children make sense of the world.

Extract from scholastic website attached in link:

"Santa Claus is a perfect example. Many older fives and sixes are beginning to understand that presents actually come from family and friends, not a man in a red-and-white suit. But when they see a particularly good Santa Claus at a department store, they react to him as (or even call him) "the real one." This is a perfectly normal part of the process of figuring out reality from fantasy. It is better to allow children the time and space to create their own understanding, rather than try to convince them of the "truth.""

www.scholastic.com/teachers/articles/teaching-content/ages-stages-how-children-use-magical-thinking/

One present for each child**

I never believed in Father Christmas, it doesn’t mean that we didn’t ‘do’ it in our house. My sister and I still wrote letters to Santa, and put out a mince pie for him and a carrot for the reindeer. It was make believe, and it was fun and magical.
I’ve done the same for my children. They know it’s not real but it doesn’t stop them from entering into the spirit of it.
I wonder if the people who would be so angry if another child told their child that Santa wasn’t real would be so angry if the other child was from a different religion/culture.

My colleague is like this. Her five year old told all the kids in his class that Santa wasn't real. Even though she shushed him, the kids faces were a picture.

They also go to (catholic) church every week. So that imaginary person is ok in their eyes.

On the other hand, my DF every year for the last 45 years has gone around local schools and old peoples homes, wearing a FC outfit that my DM made him, handing out clementines and mince pies, playing his guitar and singing songs and spreading joy. So I know FC does exist. And I have no hesitation in telling my kids and my students that.

Your friend sounds like a pretentious twat, trying to be cooler than everyone else.

Do Christmas as you want. Don't try too hard. Don't buy loads of shite. Have fun. Spread joy. Be kind. Laugh. That's it really.

We've always told our kids that Santa is a really fun game that everyone loves to play at Christmas time. They mustn't tell anyone else it's only a game because some people think it's actually true, but we know it's just a game. And a really really fun one.

Then we just talk like it's true.

For us it is related to religion in that we don't want to tell the kids two different stories about Christmas (Jesus' birth, and Santa) and then come back and tell them one isn't true, but they can still trust us on the other one... And also because Santa gifts are supposedly earnt by good behaviour- Jesus was freely given because of our sin, not our goodness. So to us it's kind of the opposite message from the one we're trying to teach them.

So far as I know they've never told a friend this, and if they do the friend's parents could easily explain our kids have got the wrong end of the stick or something

@SlipperyLizard so how to you manage it on that case? What do you actually say to your DC?

My baby is too young to understand this year but by next year I'm going to need to know what I'm saying!

We had a two prong approach, best of both worlds!

Father Christmas brings the stockings, so small gifts.
Other presents tended to be from the person who handed them over.
That's really important, so they appreciate the thought and care and money that's gone into it, and know that parents contribute to presents too, it's not just relatives and Father Christmas.

I was uncomfortable lying to my children so I never said anything about it, I took my lead from them. The rest of the world told them what to expect, I didn't have to.

It's worth having a serious think before you start. My eldest came up with a few challenges! We did Christmas shoeboxes and showed him a video about poor children not getting presents- he pointed out that Father Christmas would still go, obviously. He also wanted to know why Father Christmas brought better presents to the rich kids than the poor ones, 'cos that didn't seem very fair.

So think it through and be ready.