To not feed DC the Father Christmas lie

[PeterRabitting]

Not looking for the MN angry responses of "let children be children for gods sake" etc etc but interested in hearing the intellectual views of any parents who've handled "Father Christmas" differently from the 'norm'. The reason is, I have a friend who has raised all her DC telling them there is no such thing as Santa from the outset. It has intrigued me a bit, as a mum of a baby. On the one hand part of me thinks that it's terribly sad and my friend's DC are missing out on the magic etc. But in the other hand her reasons do make some sense to me. She and her DH are atheists and so she argues that in the same way she tells her kids the science of life (eg she doesn't tell them there is such a thing as heaven) why would she fool them into thinking Father Christmas is real. She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it. She said her DC are critical thinkers and would question things like the scientific possibility of flying round the earth etc etc anyway.

She also says that her way encourages gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money because her DC know that their gifts come from mummy and daddy through love and hard work and do not magically appear / are not made by elves. My friend says that she installs a sense of magic into her DC through all the lovely family things they do and spending time together.

I'm uncertain but it intrigued me as I too am an atheist and if I'm not trying to persuade my child that heaven exists then why would I persuade them that Santa does? On the other hand... "let children be children"!

Does anyone on here "do Father Christmas" differently / not feed their DC this story?

Each to their own, no right or wrong. I’ve loved all of the Christmas magic... stood outside looking for Santa, for one. but the magic of Christmas, which is love, generosity, family and fun can be shared in a million different ways. My dd best friend had a one gift from santa, we had a tree for Santa presents and separate for family gifts. We take food and gifts to banks. Who cares as long as the spirit is recognised

So this woman's kids are going to be telling other kids that they don't believe Santa is real?! Great!
I'd be so upset if my 5yr old started questioning Santa and having the magic of Christmas all but spoilt for her, just because some kid at school's mum wanting to be different! Id be pretty angry actually

[quote frogswimming]' Magical thinking' is also a developmental stage that helps children make sense of the world.

Extract from scholastic website attached in link:

"Santa Claus is a perfect example. Many older fives and sixes are beginning to understand that presents actually come from family and friends, not a man in a red-and-white suit. But when they see a particularly good Santa Claus at a department store, they react to him as (or even call him) "the real one." This is a perfectly normal part of the process of figuring out reality from fantasy. It is better to allow children the time and space to create their own understanding, rather than try to convince them of the "truth.""

www.scholastic.com/teachers/articles/teaching-content/ages-stages-how-children-use-magical-thinking/[/quote]
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@Cantbreathe2020

So this woman's kids are going to be telling other kids that they don't believe Santa is real?! Great! I'd be so upset if my 5yr old started questioning Santa and having the magic of Christmas all but spoilt for her, just because some kid at school's mum wanting to be different! Id be pretty angry actually

If your child believes then what does it matter what other children believe? They may not even come from a culture that does a Santa. Everyone is allowed to choose their own traditions to follow.

I told my DD out right that the Easter bunny doesn't exist and that I hid the eggs in the garden. The next day she was talking about how the Easter bunny knew that she needed special chocolate (DF). Kids believe what they want to believe. You can incorporate your own Father Christmas traditions. Santa only does a stocking with little presents or he just the delivery guy or whatever. I can't imagine not doing Santa and will continue to do Santa even when my kids are adults.

@Cantbreathe2020

So this woman's kids are going to be telling other kids that they don't believe Santa is real?! Great! I'd be so upset if my 5yr old started questioning Santa and having the magic of Christmas all but spoilt for her, just because some kid at school's mum wanting to be different! Id be pretty angry actually

But Santa isn't real, this is what I don't understand!

I also think that there's a difference between telling your kids Santa doesn't exist and just not bringing it up. If you don't talk about him, do Santa's grotto etc then they'd be at school before he was even properly on their radar.

My DSC's mum did the he's real if you want him to be approach - consequently they never really bought into FC. When I was pregnant with their little half sister, the youngest (a teen by this point) made me promise I wouldn't do the same as he wanted for her to believe. Speaks volumes I thought.

@WhoseThatGirl

Whatever you choose to do don’t let your kid be the one that ruins it for all the other children.

THIS!!!!!

Perhaps my memory is playing tricks on me but wasn't the old Mumsnetter HullyGully banned for talking about how she didn't feed her children the Santa myth?

We don't do Santa in our house. Never have. DC are 8 and 4. I can't imagine how our Christmas could be any more magical tbh, it's pretty amazing. Judging by my friends and posts on here though our Christmas is way way happier and more relaxed without the stress about who believes what, separate wrapping paper and secrets.

I don't think I ever felt the need to say 'Santa's not real' but he wasn't part of our Christmas in any way and I if we saw one I'd explain that person was dressed to look like Santa who is a legend that some children believe brings presents - they just naturally never believed. They still enjoy 'visiting' Santa if the opportunity arises - they know that means an extra present. As soon as they were old enough to fully understand I told them they weren't to say anything to other children, because that might make them sad. That was it - no drama.

My kids adore Christmas, they ask about it all year round, they spend all of December in a state of unhinged excitement - they aren't missing out on anything.

These posts always make me a bit sad. Yes, it's technically a lie, but it brings children so much joy and wonder. Father Christmas is one of my fondest memories of my childhood. No way would I deprive my children of that when most of their classmates will be enjoying it so vocally and enthusiastically.
My parents didn't allow Halloween and trick or treating for similar moral reasons (they felt it was "begging" and inappropriate for children). I definitely didn't grow up to feel glad or respect their moral stance, I just felt cheated out of something that my peers enjoyed so much.

@Cantbreathe2020

So this woman's kids are going to be telling other kids that they don't believe Santa is real?! Great! I'd be so upset if my 5yr old started questioning Santa and having the magic of Christmas all but spoilt for her, just because some kid at school's mum wanting to be different! Id be pretty angry actually

Do you live in some completely monocultural world? Because DS was surrounded by classmates who came from European countries with different non-Santa Christmas traditions, or from non-Christian households who didn’t celebrate Christmas at all.

Your child really doesn’t need you to frenetically police some Santa bubble.

The thing is I think if there was any evidence that believing in FC was in any way inherently harmful or hurtful, we would collectively know about is as the Santa myth is a widespread phenomenon.

Also I haven't RTFT so am sure as it's already been said, but religion and FC is an absolutely false equivalence. I'm not religious either but tangibly being able to know that FC doesn't exist as he obviously doesn't actually being presents is completely different to a metaphysical belief system.

God it hurts just writing that. FC is real to me, the spirit and magic of him at least. And that's what I will be gently explaining to my children as they grow older and eventually question it.

I also personally really value the element of taking part in communal traditions. As said before, I'm not religious so I have no faith based community to belong to. I do however love history and the fact that Christmas has pagan/pre Christian origins is something I really feel warmly to. There is something special to me, imagining all the people in the past who have performed the same customs as we have, regardless of religious belief, and imagining all the people who will continue to do so. It's very special to me so throwing myself wholeheartedly into those traditions is important.

I can't imagine not doing Santa and will continue to do Santa even when my kids are adults.

SAME

My Dsis has never done FC with her DC as she remembers when she found out that our DPs had lied to her about him being real.

I am younger than her so can't remember finding out.

As her DC are slightly older than mine and we spend Christmas together I never told my DC that FC was real either.

I am not so hard lined as her, we still do Stockings and I took them to see FC for years but they have alway known he wasn't real and Mummy bought the things in their stockings.

I have always told them not to tell other children and DC3 decided I was wrong and he was real for a couple of years.

It has never been a major deal for us.

Each to their own but .......
Kids go to school all their friends will have Santa Claus 🎅 🥰
My argument is if you don't leave your kids believe then your pushing YOUR views on them .
Not fair imho 😩
The world is cruel enough at times 😒
Those that don't believe in magic will never find it ..
BELIEVE !!!!!!!!

@Iloveme30

Each to their own but ....... Kids go to school all their friends will have Santa Claus 🎅 🥰 My argument is if you don't leave your kids believe then your pushing YOUR views on them . Not fair imho 😩 The world is cruel enough at times 😒 Those that don't believe in magic will never find it .. BELIEVE !!!!!!!!

This suggests you think the adults should believe!

We have fantastic Christmases, including presents from Father Christmas, but I have just never told the children he is real. I haven't told them he's not real either.

But for some people that's not enough, they don't seem to want the children to believe, they seem to want the adults to believe too.

I honestly don't understand that.

As an aside why are they celebrating Christmas at all? Do they celebrate festivals from other religions so that the kids aren't unduly influenced?

Santa Claus was such a big part of my childhood. It made it so magical and I remember always wondering what the North Pole was like. What child doesn't want to believe in magic and fairy tales?

Sure, it's a lie, but the magic and joy it brings is priceless.

@housemdwaswrong

As an aside why are they celebrating Christmas at all? Do they celebrate festivals from other religions so that the kids aren't unduly influenced?

This is a strange question. Father Christmas is separate from the Christian festival of Christmas.

Atheist but still does Christmas I bet, when traditionally it's about the birth of Christ?

Also, my kids always knew that we bough their presents, FC filled their stockings. I don't need to buy out of a fairy-tale to encourage gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money, either. I do that in all things that typically DO NOT surround what is supposed to be a magical time.

@frogswimming - Well, it sounds more earnest and serious than magical

I agree. There is plenty to be serious about without making this time a "learning" time!

@AriettyHomily - Sounds too try hard to me, and dull. Critical thinkers FFS

And this.

Love that her children's critical thinking skills are superior to the millions (billions?) of young children who have believed in Santa, brilliant. Personally I don't know anyone who has been affected long term by finding out their parents 'lied' about santa, most have precious memories and appreciate the effort that was put in to maintaining the illusion. Also gratitude wise a lot of people say Santa just brings one gift and family buy the others. Each to their own, but I think life is serious enough, and they'll miss out as their friends will invariably believe.

Scarafitto, exactly.

It never once occurred to me that my folks had ‘lied’ to us about FC. On the contrary, I really appreciated the effort that had gone into making it such a magically exciting time for us as young children, especially since they were always pretty skint.

In 3 generations of my family, FC has only ever brought relatively little things in stockings - anything else has always been from family, who need to be thanked. So that’s the ‘gratitude’ argument at least partly out of the window. TBH I’ve never understood the ‘Santa brings everything’ idea.

Apart from anything else, ‘little things only‘ stopped us asking for anything too expensive or unobtainable. Though my folks did have to tell me that FC wasn’t allowed to bring animals, or else a puppy would have been on my list every year.

Isn't the magic of Father Christmas just like the magic of books? When we read books as children or as adults to children, don't we want them to engage in a little magic; to be swept into another place by their imagination?

Science tells me what a tree is but magic tells me what it means (to me, to others, throughout the ages).

I think all children, and adults, need a little magic in life.