To not feed DC the Father Christmas lie

[PeterRabitting]

Not looking for the MN angry responses of "let children be children for gods sake" etc etc but interested in hearing the intellectual views of any parents who've handled "Father Christmas" differently from the 'norm'. The reason is, I have a friend who has raised all her DC telling them there is no such thing as Santa from the outset. It has intrigued me a bit, as a mum of a baby. On the one hand part of me thinks that it's terribly sad and my friend's DC are missing out on the magic etc. But in the other hand her reasons do make some sense to me. She and her DH are atheists and so she argues that in the same way she tells her kids the science of life (eg she doesn't tell them there is such a thing as heaven) why would she fool them into thinking Father Christmas is real. She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it. She said her DC are critical thinkers and would question things like the scientific possibility of flying round the earth etc etc anyway.

She also says that her way encourages gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money because her DC know that their gifts come from mummy and daddy through love and hard work and do not magically appear / are not made by elves. My friend says that she installs a sense of magic into her DC through all the lovely family things they do and spending time together.

I'm uncertain but it intrigued me as I too am an atheist and if I'm not trying to persuade my child that heaven exists then why would I persuade them that Santa does? On the other hand... "let children be children"!

Does anyone on here "do Father Christmas" differently / not feed their DC this story?

Christmas is a big thing in our house and after the shit year we’ve had it will be ramped up a lot.

We don’t focus on the religious side, if dc talk about ‘baby Jesus’ I talk to them about what other religions believe and it’s up to them.

However we’re big Father Christmas believers. We make reindeer food and put food out for the big guy. Dc know the big presents come of us ( ipad, bikes ect) they just think we order it and pay for it and father Xmas brings them along with the other stuff he brings.

They are 7&4 I’m not expecting them to taken back by our generosity and be for ever thankful I just want them to have a fun magical few hours. Childhood goes so fast why take joy out of it?

Jesus was freely given because of our sin, not our goodness. So to us it's kind of the opposite message from the one we're trying to teach them.
Yes, I find original sin is a lovely 'message' to give your children.

OP, we've never done Father Christmas as literally true. In our house he's always been a character like Fireman Sam or Harry Potter, and there are all the usual rituals like leaving out a mince pie and carrots, writing FC a letter, tracking him on the NORAD tracker, stockings and tree presents etc. No loss of magic, and certainly not doing it to encourage mindfulness and gratitude, which does sound a bit joyless.

I know lots of families who do it this way -- in some cases because the children have additional needs of some king and are made anxious by the idea of someone coming into the house etc. But in most because they're from a cultural background that has a different story for where Christmas presents come from.

I'm surprised more of your children haven't compared notes with classmates and friends from different cultures and religions -- lots of DS's class were from non-Christian backgrounds who didn't celebrate Christmas at all, so he's been accustomed to the 'some people believe x' approach from preschool.

That does sound incredibly serious.

I never believed in Father Christmas. It wasn’t in any kind of sour, serious way but I just always assumed he was a story and make believe, in the same way that I assume most children don’t actually believe in the tooth fairy or Easter bunny?

It was ideal as there was no sudden end to magical Christmases once I stopped believing ... the traditions petered our as I got older but only because I became less fussed with them over time. There was no sudden year when we stopped talking about Father Christmas and leaving a drink and a mince pie out etc.. I guess if stopped slowly over many years.

My 4 year old does seem to genuinely believe but I hope he realises it’s all just a bit of fun at some point.

@PeterRabitting I tended to follow his lead about all the questions. So if he said 'how does FC get all around the children?', I replied 'I don't know, what do you think?'.
When he said he didn't think it was fair, I agreed it didn't seem fair. When he assumed Santa went to the poor kids in war zones, I said that maybe he couldn't get there the way he does here, because of the war. That he doesn't go everywhere, because some countries believe different things.

When he was heading up to secondary school I decided to tell him FC wasn't real. He was shocked. He'd always thought it was unlikely, but thought that all the adults in the world conspiring together to lie to the children was even more unlikely. He's a deep thinker!

I think that’s sad too. Can’t remember how old I was when I found out the truth but somehow I never thought I’d been lied to, if that makes sense! Christmas was always wonderful for me & DB as kids & I still find it magical now in my 50s. And actually I think DD11 still believes, although I feel sad that this is very likely to be the last year.

I do find it a bit strange the lengths some people go to make sure their children believe for as long as possible. We’ve never made a big deal of Father Christmas. I treat it like a story the same as The Gruffalo. When we walk through woods we might try to spot gruffalo footprints, and at Christmas we listen out for his sleigh. But it’s all part of imaginative play and magical thinking rather than A LIE. I’m not sure that my eldest has ever really believed, but she still has fun playing along. I think it’s normal for a child to realise at about the same time that the gruffalo and Father Christmas are not real.

Personally, I think it's the choice off the child when their old enough to choose - school age. They will make their decision, my now 17 year old was infomred age 4 that FC didn't exist at school by a friend and made the decision to ignore the friend and continued to believe.

We all have stockings in our house and we contribute to the stocking - it's probably the best part of christmas for me. The grown up teens and dogs opening thier stockings on our bed christmas morning.

We never did Santa here. We adopted ds aged five and he certainly didn't believe in him when he arrived. And we had bigger issues to worry about than Santa. So he went to school here not believing and presumably told everyone as he was and remains an opinionated know it all. No one died. Honestly the little lads who started coming here on play dates didn't really believe either. Which is why I am always floored when someone on Mumsnet says their secondary school aged child still believes!

@PeterRabitting it has mostly been a really awkward fudge - we don’t say anything/carry out the usual FC rituals but loads of other people do “ooh, are you excited about what Santa will bring you?” Etc. It is so pervasive that they can’t help but be aware of it.

We’ve always been open about who presents are from and have never pretended any are from FC.

I wish we’d had the guts to be more explicit with them, but I don’t think we could have taken the disappointment from family members who have invested a lot of time and energy in “creating the magic” for their DCs.

My mum never particularly did it for us (she was a single parent so probably wanted all the credit ha ha), which is why I don’t feel the need to - we still loved Christmas.

I knew Santa wasn’t real around age 5/6, but I wasn’t the sort of kid who would go shouting about it to everyone else.

Your friend is giving it Far too much thought.

I believed in FC. I’m very appreciative of my parents and how they went without (in reality my mum went without) to give us a lovely Christmas every year.

It’s just fun. It isn’t like religion. As a parent with older teens I really really miss that fun and excitement of Christmas so if you have little ones make the most of it as ultimately with teens it’s just another day that Is very expensive,

Your child do what you think is best
Personally for us father christmas was the way to go as i loved that magical feeling when younger
So did both dc , they learnt the truth a lot younger than I did and prob suspected before this
But they both said xmas was more exciting when they believed in Father Xmas and the magic of it all and kids soon have to grow up these days so i never see harm in a bit of make believe
But you do what works for you and your family as long as you teach your child not to go and tell others what they should or shouldn't believe

I treat it like a story the same as The Gruffalo. When we walk through woods we might try to spot gruffalo footprints, and at Christmas we listen out for his sleigh. But it’s all part of imaginative play and magical thinking rather than A LIE. I’m not sure that my eldest has ever really believed, but she still has fun playing along. I think it’s normal for a child to realise at about the same time that the gruffalo and Father Christmas are not real.

See that’s what I always assumed. My 1 year old very much believes Peppa Pig is real but of course my 4 year old doesn’t. I never had to explain that Peppa isn’t real.

I assumed / hoped that Father Christmas is the same and that they figure it out for themselves and it doesn’t lose any of the magic - there doesn’t need to be any huge moment when you tell the “truth”.

Hearing from people who did genuinely believe until they were say 9 or 10 and then found out about the huge “lie” scares me a bit though.

I'd love to have been able to tell my children that FC is a load of old flannel.
But, they live in the world. Other children believe. How could I explain to my brother why my child told their cousin FC isn't real?
I won'tt let FC take credit for the decent presents, though. He can bring the stocking fillers and the good stuff is from us.

I thought Santa was what atheists did at Christmas, otherwise why are you celebrating at all?

Like many (or maybe most), for my family and dh's, all the presents come from the actual giver and only the little bits and bobs in stockings come from Christmas.

We are staunch atheists and not ones to bang on about #makingmemories or childhoods needing to be constantly made magical. The Father Christmas thing is a fun make-believe. Children engage in make-believe and imaginative play all the time. It is totally normal for children to happily blur the lines between fantasy and real life. And for parents to join in with that.

My dc (now 12 and 15), like everyone in my family (and dh's and pretty much everyone I know) gradually and non-traumatically grew out of believing in FC whilst still playing along for fun and for younger children in the family.

I grew up in and out of foster care and rarely got many Christmas presents, so I never really believed. My parents never told me that Santa Claus existed either.

We don’t really do Santa in my house except as a story. Christmas is still magical because it’s a time when work/school/college is off and we can spend lots of time together.

DH usually works really long hours and the kids are in school and various activities so it’s really special to be able to spend time all together. Some of the things we love the most are writing our cards to everyone, opening a present on Christmas Eve, decorating the tree and watching Christmas films. I don’t think my kids are missing out by not believing in Santa.

DS didn't have great expressive language skills at two and I'm no good at chatting away to semi-verbal children, I tend to use non-verbal communication instinctively. Anyway, at two I didn't think to mention it.

At three he was too cynical and I can't lie to save my life. He learnt Father Christmas at the childminder, I attempted to back it up, failed. I was never committed though, it felt wrong.

I'm not comfortable lying to my kids, so I don't say he's real. But you don't have to-they believe anyway, they hear all about Santa at nursery/school from friends, other family etc. If they ask, you can kind of turn the question on them, 'so how do you think that could happen' or just fudge it with a 'well rumour has it.. his reindeer are magic' etc etc

As a child I loved the magic of believing in Santa and I wouldn't want my children to miss out on that. I also think that children aren't very good at keeping their opinions to themselves so if they had been told it was all a lie, they'd inevitably spoil it for their friends at a very young age.

This reminds me of the cultural capital thread, and I think I would rather my children had the shared experience of believing in Santa along with their peers than feel alienated from it.

We kind of do a mix of things. I've never said outright 'Santa/ Father Christmas is real' and the kids know that Father Christmas originated from Saint Nicholas (Veggie Tales have a good animation of St Nicholas life, it is Christian themed which isn't for everyone but we have found it a very useful, gentle intro to St Nick and how Christmas isn't about material goods). I leave it to the kids to make their own mythology around Santa, if the kids ask a question about Santa, I ask them what they think the answer is, and they come up with their own answer. They mostly got their ideas about him from school and Christmas films. We do stockings for evryone, adult or child, and one (around £20 max) Santa gift under the tree for kids, the rest of the gifts are off us, or family and friends so the kids can thank the giver. 'Santa' delivers all the gifts to the house on Christmas eve. For us Christmas is mostly about celebrating Jesus birth, having a 'feast day' and spending time with family and friends. Santa is kind of a bonus 'add on' if that makes sense. When my eldest told me her (muslim) friend said Santa didn't exist, I saw it as an opportunity to explain how not all religions have the same festivals, rather than to tell her that her friend was wrong and that Santa did exist. So far the balance seems to have worked and my eldest (8.5) still believes in Santa for the time being.

At school age I did drill it into him not to say the Father Christmas wasn't real, only to say that he didn't believe, or that we didn't do that in our house.

I think its a bit sad tbh.

Father christmas is essentially a big game, its a bit of fun. Children start slowly learning the hes not real but they still play the game, like deep down they know their teddies/dolls whatever arent real but they pretend they are. Its mostly childrens imagination

Christmas is such a magical time when you are a small child, why would you take that away? Theyve got the whole rest of their lives to learn mum buys the presents they really dont need to know it at 4

@Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov

Well it is factual... some people do believe in Santa Claus, they are just mostly very small

OP I don't think it's wrong not to involve Santa Claus in your Christmas celebrations. But I do roll my eyes a bit when parents are upset that Santa is stealing their 'credit' for present. Because who gives a gift so that the child will be grateful to them? Children get the same amount of joy no matter who gave the present and the parents can still watch their eyes light up. Later on when the child is older it will click for them that it was really mum/dad who did everything.

The other thing is you better have a child who can keep their mouth shut... otherwise you will be a persona non grata when your kid opens their mouth about Santa not being real at a children's Christmas party!

*The presents under the tree are from the people written on the labels."

The presents in the sack marked "From Santa" are from....well Santa.

This!

Also it's Jesus' birthday in our house. Not everyone believes in Father Christmas and not everyone goes to church and believes in Jesus/God/has a faith that tallies with ours.

Different people in different families believe different things. At least that's how my DM (explained it to me when my friend told me FC wasn't real when I was about 6. "Well FC might not visit their house because they don't invite him! But we leave him a mince pie so he knows to come to our house!"

My 3 yo wants to go to Hogwarts. Our house believes in magic

@Slightlybrwnbanana -- we go vaguely 'yule' and winter solsticey. Celebrate the shortest night is done and appreciate all the evergreens and lights.