To not feed DC the Father Christmas lie

[PeterRabitting]

Not looking for the MN angry responses of "let children be children for gods sake" etc etc but interested in hearing the intellectual views of any parents who've handled "Father Christmas" differently from the 'norm'. The reason is, I have a friend who has raised all her DC telling them there is no such thing as Santa from the outset. It has intrigued me a bit, as a mum of a baby. On the one hand part of me thinks that it's terribly sad and my friend's DC are missing out on the magic etc. But in the other hand her reasons do make some sense to me. She and her DH are atheists and so she argues that in the same way she tells her kids the science of life (eg she doesn't tell them there is such a thing as heaven) why would she fool them into thinking Father Christmas is real. She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it. She said her DC are critical thinkers and would question things like the scientific possibility of flying round the earth etc etc anyway.

She also says that her way encourages gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money because her DC know that their gifts come from mummy and daddy through love and hard work and do not magically appear / are not made by elves. My friend says that she installs a sense of magic into her DC through all the lovely family things they do and spending time together.

I'm uncertain but it intrigued me as I too am an atheist and if I'm not trying to persuade my child that heaven exists then why would I persuade them that Santa does? On the other hand... "let children be children"!

Does anyone on here "do Father Christmas" differently / not feed their DC this story?

Years ago I would have called you a killjoy but my youngest (nearly 11) found out last week that Father Christmas is not real and we had 3 solid hours of tears. I thought she had suspicions and would take it well like her sister did when she asked me if he was really real and her reaction was so upsetting. I’ve never gone over the top with Christmas and remember growing up that you work it out for yourself over the years but she was heartbroken that we actually ate the mince pies, already knew what was in her stocking that she was so proud to show us and that the reindeers has never stood on the roof. It starts out as a bit of fun but as they get older it just gets awkward.

This isn’t a new or innovative parenting stance 🙄. Some rather humourless cousins of my mothers took this approach in the 70s with their kids everyone thought they were a right barrel of laughs.

I think it sounds like she’s trying too hard. The critical thinkers part was funny.
Hope her kids don’t ruin it for others.

I don't know any kids who are traumatised by being "lied to" about Santa. In my case though DS knows that it's family who actually buy the presents, Santa is just the delivery man. It's a bit of fun.

I would be slightly concerned if an 11 year old still believed tbh

@Miriel that is my problem with it too. It's not my child's responsibility to uphold the myth for other children! I come from a culture without Santa so I am just not that invested in it.

[quote CuteOrangeElephant]@Miriel that is my problem with it too. It's not my child's responsibility to uphold the myth for other children! I come from a culture without Santa so I am just not that invested in it.[/quote]
I agree. I am from a 'Santa' culture, though we've never done him as literally true, but honestly, I'm not going to bustle about upholding someone else's version of reality in case your children catch a dose of my child's alternative one.

My sons are now teenagers, they still put out a stocking for Father Christmas because those stockings still get filled with the stuff they always have like chocolate coins, bookmarks (yes they both still read books) some socks etc.

They obviously know that those stockings are filled by us but they cherish the memories of a time when they did believe that FC delivered presents magically in the middle of the night. The main presents are from us under the tree. FC brings small inexpensive gifts.

Father Christmas is real he is a concept, an idea, he may not bring the presents but this idea is kept alive by the millions of adults and older children who can understand that giddy feeling. And no matter how badly behaved you were he still filled the stocking in this house.

We still watch the same Christmas movies that we always did because it is part of our tradition, just like we have a hot mustard and maple ham with crunchy roast potatoes on Christmas Eve. We cherish the memories of them hanging up the stockings and watch the glee in their faces as they did it because we have always filmed it.

There are always the cool kids, either now as adults with the whole I never bought into this shit or the ones whose parents tell them now that there is no such thing. Personal beliefs aside I am sure a lot of primary teachers have to lie through their teeth about FC especially considering he comes into our school every year for nursery and KS1 children!

It's just a load of fun and a story played out in real life.

I tend to throw questions back as "what do you think?" I know DS (9) has concluded that he doesn't believe in God (we go to Church) but he hasn't explicitly stated his views on Santa, presumably shrewdly out of hedging his bets to keep the presents...

We put out the mince pies (and leave a crumbly mess and footprints), they get a Santa present, we'll often go and see a Santa and we track him on NORAD (great for obscure geography!) And that's mostly it. It's not a big deal of good lists and naughty lists and spying elves. Society fills enough gaps.

Fiction, to put it crudely is a lie. But fiction brings joy, hope and understanding of the world. It is not a naked truth but it is purposeful. I intellectually know that I'm not going to find another world in the back of the wardrobe... but it's good to have a little check to be sure even in my cynical adulthood

It's very different letting a child work it out in their own time to denying them the chance. Like with DS1's religious beliefs, I'm happy for him to come to his own conclusions that are different to mine, and it's better for him to form them himself than to have them dictated for him.

Well it sounds miserable tbh.

Not read the whole thread.

My older brother disproved Father Christmas aged 3. He told my mum that there couldn't be a Father Christmas as there was no friction in space for the reindeers hooves to push against! He came up with that totally by himself 🤷🏼‍♀️

It's fine to not do Father Christmas and to tell your children that it's a story, but I think it's important that they understand not to spoil it for others.

My brother never once told me that Father Christmas didn't exist. He helped my parents to make the magic for me. He could easily of been nasty and told me.

A part of not having a belief is respecting that others do.

@peboh how awful! I am 8 years older than my sister snd said nothing. Equally my older kids have not said anything to their younger ones.

Our DS believes in Santa (although we don't partake in whole 'good children get presents and naughty ones don't part of it')

He asks Santa for a smallish gift and gets that along with his Stocking from Santa, other presents he knows are from mummy and daddy. I use 2 different types of wrapping paper to help with the distinction. I think it helps when he mixes with other children who might not have had big gifts from Santa.

So we still put out a mince pie and carrot etc and track Santa in the sky on Christmas Eve. We are at the 'magic could be real' stage

I think that if you choose to tell your child that there is no Father Christmas, they should be encouraged not to belittle or bully any child they know who does.

@MsTSwift. I’m pretty certain that my 11 yr old still believes in FC and he probably wouldn’t tell us if he didn’t because he wouldn’t want to spoil our fun.
My dad was an alcoholic and only interested in what time the pubs opened so my Christmases weren’t especially magical. We didn’t do leaving out carrots or mince pies and my few presents weren’t ever wrapped, so I was worried about how I’d manage to make it fun for DS as I didn’t really know how to do it.
Luckily, my DH is brilliant and puts in a HUGE effort for Christmas inc. about 70% of the planning and present buying. He decorates and puts up thousands of fairy lights in every room of the house, and writes a letter to DS every Christmas Eve from Father Christmas.

I’m very grateful to DH for his efforts and I wouldn’t wish my pathetic childhood type Christmas on anyone.

@missyB1

Yawn.... bet it’s laugh a minute in their house.

Exactly this! I can seeing where they're coming from but it just seems so joyless. Better to encourage a sort of sceptical wonder.

By the way, I understand this poor, rich divide and why hasn't santa bought for little Tommy.. But how does it make it better for Tommy to know xs dp brought them a gift?

The child is still giftless...

@nosswith

I think that if you choose to tell your child that there is no Father Christmas, they should be encouraged not to belittle or bully any child they know who does.

Children who don't believe in Father Christmas are no more likely to bully other children than children who believe . I could equally say I think that if you choose to tell your child that there is a Father Christmas, they should be encouraged not to belittle or bully any child they know who doesn't believe. My child has been told by other children that he must be bad if he hasn't received presents from Father Christmas. Parents who do Father Christmas should be careful what they say to their children too.

@Completelyfrozen

When I look back now, the most magical part of Christmas was the belief that Father Christmas was bringing me gifts. I dont remember many of those gifts but I do remember how magical and special the whole world was that night. When I inevitably discovered that Father Christmas didnt really exist and it was all down to my parents, that there was no magic, Christmas was no longer magical. It was special, and has been every year since, but it has never been magical since. My favourite christmases were when we were dirt poor but we had the magic of christmas. Some children who begin having doubts as to whether Santa exists deliberately choose not to question, because even they see how amazing Christmas is when it feels magical. I cant think of one good reason to deprive a child of such moments to look back upon.

I totally agree with this

In my head you are Adrian Mole

We did FC as a story in the same way as any other fairytale with our dc . We used to see a few Santa’s every year ( including Goofy FC at Disney Paris) so they knew from the start that he was a fictional character . Both of ours love Christmas and always have and they are now both 20+ . I always think it’s a bit sad when people say that the ‘magic is lost’ when your children stop believing because we’ve always had magical christmases perhaps because things have evolved as they’ve got older but fundamentally Christmas is the same as it’s always been IYSWIM . Interestingly both of my dc prefer the shopping for presents for others more than getting gifts themselves .

I will just clarify having read the last couple of posts that our dc knew not to say anything at school and as far as I know never did so .

@FlyingApples

She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it

I don't think it really is something you can leave open for children to believe if they choose, as you can with, say God - or even fairies. The presents arrive, which is a fact. Children will wonder where they come from. If you were to say "well some people believe Santa and some think it is your parents" the children are quite rightly going to say "well what is it then? You must know."

Agreed. Especially if they are critical thinkers

@Floralnomad

We did FC as a story in the same way as any other fairytale with our dc . We used to see a few Santa’s every year ( including Goofy FC at Disney Paris) so they knew from the start that he was a fictional character . Both of ours love Christmas and always have and they are now both 20+ . I always think it’s a bit sad when people say that the ‘magic is lost’ when your children stop believing because we’ve always had magical christmases perhaps because things have evolved as they’ve got older but fundamentally Christmas is the same as it’s always been IYSWIM . Interestingly both of my dc prefer the shopping for presents for others more than getting gifts themselves .

This is pretty much our experience, minus the Disneyland. Santa being an enjoyable fairytale doesn't have the slightest impact on DS's sense of Christmas as magic, and unless you live somewhere totally monocultural and /or don't know anyone from even other European countries with different traditions as to who brings the presents, I really don't see why anyone would envisage that a child who doesn't believe in Santa is more liable to be a bully or belittler than anyone else. It suggests a real ignorance of or hostility towards other traditions.

I just asked DS if he minds having been lied to. Funnily enough he's not at all traumatised.