Honestly, if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[SAHMparanoia]

.....or dad!

Hi,

Just that really. Have been a SAHM for a long time (over a decade) and whereas I do like the idea of going back to work - starting my own business maybe at some point, I do definitely feel a lot of pressure and judgements from other women.

I think there probably is an element of internalised judgement too. I often ask myself if it's wrong that I don't contribute anything to the family money pot, but then I obviously contribute in many other ways that my DP doesn't have time for.

If my DP didn't earn good money, I wouldn't be able to choose, so I understand that I am fortunate in that sense, but I do feel a bit like I don't "fit" anywhere now.

I don't know if that's because I genuinely want to get back to work for myself or for others. I get genuinely anxious, borderline embarrassed, when people ask what I do. There have been plenty of times my reply has been met by raised eyebrows and questions such as, "god, aren't you bored?".

I find myself almost excusing and explaining my choice, which I HATE! I shouldn't have to do that. I know I don't have to, but I feel almost cornered sometimes.

So anyway, if you're a working parent, do you look at women like me judge? Or are you also a SAHM and do feel judged?

@ReturnofSaturn

I personally don't get the point in having kids if at least one parent isn't going to be home with them for the first few years at least.

Why pay someone else to do it? Why bother having children then.

I'm not a maternal person at all and I only have one child and not having anymore but I would have been absolutely heartbroken not to have these first few years with him full time.

So single parents who have to work to provide for their kids shouldn't have bothered having kids in the first place?

People who need to get out to work for their mental health and well being, meaning they are refreshed and better parents afterwards shouldn't bother having kids?

People who have to work to carry on their career as if they stopped work they wouldn't be able to return afterwards shouldn't bother having kids?

People have every right to choose how they parent their own children. Just because they choose a different option to you doesn't mean they shouldn't have kids.

(FWIW I'm a stay at home mum. Your comment is just very judgemental to working parents)

Why pay someone else to do it? Why bother having children then

You have some very weird ideas about childcare providers. Why not try it sometime? You might be astonished to find that your child remains your child and that you haven't actually delegated their upbringing.

No judgement, only envy!

I personally don't get the point in having kids if at least one parent isn't going to be home with them for the first few years at least.

Why pay someone else to do it? Why bother having children then.

Most of us probably have children for far, far more reasons than to spend 24/7 with them in their earliest years. To think the only 'point' of having children is that is quite weird.

@ReturnofSaturn
I just really wanted my own teenagers.
There's more to parenting than the first few years, and not spending 24/7 with them for the first 5 years doesn't negate that.

I personally don't get the point in having kids if at least one parent isn't going to be home with them for the first few years at least. Why pay someone else to do it? Why bother having children then.

You forgot to mention raised by strangers, day orphanages and missing precious moments.

This of course does not apply to male parents who have children and work full time and don't spend those early years 24/7 with their children.

G5 those working dads are always amazing. Great parents and hugely ambitious. They always desperately want to be the sole earner too.

No, but as others have said, I would never recommend it due to the financial vulnerability.

I do judge the men who screw over their SAHW when they divorce and justify it to themselves by saying it was 'my money that I earnt'. I think these men are contemptible.

I can't understand why women (and it's mostly women) willingly give up their financial independence and decide to dedicate all their time to facilitating their DH's career, which is seen as much more valid than anything they could ever have done.

I don't think it's about facilitating their DH's career at all. It's about choosing to give that time to their children.

@ReturnofSaturn

I personally don't get the point in having kids if at least one parent isn't going to be home with them for the first few years at least.

Why pay someone else to do it? Why bother having children then.

I'm not a maternal person at all and I only have one child and not having anymore but I would have been absolutely heartbroken not to have these first few years with him full time.

I really hope this is some upper level of sarcasm. Please tell me no-one is so truly uninformed and self obsessed to believe this. I thought this was the sort of statement everyone now laughs at for being so ignorant?

Yes, I generally tend to judge them. Not on being a SAHP as a stand-alone item and I don’t think less of them. But I do find myself judging their circumstances.

Had a friend who’s husband walk out of his job while she was on mat leave, struggled to find another so she went back to work full time and he took up SAHP duties. I judge him for not thinking his decisions through and forcing her hand.

One friend fully intended to return to work, kept telling us how amazing her career was and how much money she earned. Then couldn’t find a suitable childcare setting. Went to dozens of nurseries and met with a good handful of childminders and decided none of them were good enough, could find fault in every single one. So didn’t go back to work. They can’t afford for her not to work so now they’re having to sell their house (struggling to do atm!) and downsize. I judge her for being so damn precious with who could look after her child that they’re having to change their entire life. Especially with all the moaning about having to move.

A friend who repeatedly tells me she doesn’t work because she was put in this world “to be a mother”. It’s her destiny! Not sure what I judge her for... being sappy? How convenient that her destiny was facilitated by marrying a man with a good wage.

A couple of colleagues have quit when going into mat leave. The thought crosses my mind “but how do you know you don’t want to come back?” which I think is a judgemental thought. I’m acutely aware that a lot of mat pay has to be repaid if you don’t return so it isn’t always very simple.

I judge the handful of Facebook friends who join MLMs. I judge anyone who joins one of those tbh (surely they can’t have done any research?) but especially the ones who talk about how it makes them an amazing mummy because they can be around for small Timmy.

I also roll my eyes at these threads where so many women claim to do “volunteering” as an answer to “what they do all day”. If you do a significant of volunteering then you’re not really a SAHM are you (you’re just not in paid work) so it becomes moot. No one ever says “I live my life at a much slower pace and I like it like that” (which is honestly a great reason!).

I have a couple of friends IRL who are SAHM because they were struggling with their career. They weren’t really sure what they were doing or where they wanted it to go, so juggling building something with having small children was too much. I don’t judge these women at all. However, I never see anyone admit to anything similar on these threads. And as a result I find them very disingenuous.

@HidingBehindNameChange2 I'm one in your last category. I was in retail (fairly low paying which adds a different reason to being a SAHP) but I found my job security was becoming increasingly unstable, I didn't know what I wanted out of my career and wasn't finding it fulfilling at all. Honestly, I find being a SAHM so much more fulfilling that I decided not to go back. If I had had a strong career that I loved before having kids I suspect my decision might have been very different.

I also roll my eyes at these threads where so many women claim to do “volunteering” as an answer to “what they do all day”. If you do a significant of volunteering then you’re not really a SAHM are you (you’re just not in paid work) so it becomes moot. No one ever says “I live my life at a much slower pace and I like it like that

Yep that's me too! I never had a job I loved. And I have LOADS of hobbies and interests. I honestly never understand people who think they'd get bored without a job. To me that's like saying "oh I like to lie in bed sticking needles in my eyes for 8 hours a day because I'd be bored if I didn't". I don't see work as a worthwhile cure for boredom. If I'm bored, I find something interesting to do, and wasting 40 hours a week working my arse off to make some CEO rich is not my idea of interesting.

Yep that's me too! I never had a job I loved. And I have LOADS of hobbies and interests. I honestly never understand people who think they'd get bored without a job. To me that's like saying "oh I like to lie in bed sticking needles in my eyes for 8 hours a day because I'd be bored if I didn't". I don't see work as a worthwhile cure for boredom. If I'm bored, I find something interesting to do, and wasting 40 hours a week working my arse off to make some CEO rich is not my idea of interesting.

This almost reads as if you think you’re above working. That you see it as nothing more than a rat race and you’re far too interesting to waste your time working. I’m sure that’s not what you meant though. You appear to be overlooking that plenty of jobs are indeed interesting. Is your point that you never found a job you loved, so why not be a SAHM (as with the poster above, more fulfilling)? FWIW, I’m NHS, so I’m not making anyone rich by working.

This almost reads as if you think you’re above working. That you see it as nothing more than a rat race and you’re far too interesting to waste your time working. I’m sure that’s not what you meant though. You appear to be overlooking that plenty of jobs are indeed interesting. Is your point that you never found a job you loved, so why not be a SAHM (as with the poster above, more fulfilling)? FWIW, I’m NHS, so I’m not making anyone rich by working

I guess I was too lazy to add the standard caveat: "of course there are people who LOVE their career/job and find it super fulfilling and would do it even if they won the lottery, etc. etc." I would say that:

a) Most people don't feel that way, but a lot still feel they need a job to stave off boredom for some reason.

b) The vast majority of people who work are in a situation where their time and effort is being exploited for somebody else's financial gain. Ideally EVERYONE should be above that. I'm lucky that I can sack it off — I know most aren't.

I would imagine that most people could fill their lives with interesting and rewarding activities other than work if they had enough money but comparatively few are that fortunate.
Everyone in our family has interesting hobbies, but they all cost money, and if we didn't have two decent incomes then it would be those interesting and enjoyable activities that would be the first things to be curtailed. We might be helping other people to get rich, but we are also enriching our own lives and those of our children.
I had quite a protracted period of sick leave after major surgery some years ago, and my children who were tweens/ teens at the time certainly did enjoy having me at home all the time, especially over the sumer holidays when I was getting close to be well enough to return to work. We seriously considered me giving up work at that point, but of course the children were enjoying the best of both worlds - I was at home but still being paid. When we sat down and did the sums, and explained to the children what kind of changes would be necessary to our lifestyle if I was at home all the time but without pay, they developed a different perspective pretty quickly!

I don't judge but I do envy.

Actually I suspect most judgemental on this matter either stems from envy or guilt. Not that guilt is fair or either is an excuse.

I would be bored as a SAHM with school age DC’s as I wouldn’t feel comfortable having fun at hobbies, lunches with friends, extra gym classes etc whilst DH was at work each day. I’m more comfortable that we are a joint partnership both working, parenting and managing the home.

@Devlesko

I don't judge wohp's but I'm always surprised at the amount of people that believe life is for working to earn money for others. As some sort of identity of themselves. I'm a ........, rather than just being. But we all think differently and are some conditioned by society to follow what others do, with the same type of lifestyle, without ever questioning. It would be boring if we were all the same and it takes variety to make the world go round.

That sounds an awful lot like judging to me.

Komacho

I can assure you it's not.
I've done both and both from choice at the time.
The lack of balance of diversity does surprise me and the lack of choice at times.

Yes I do. How bloody dull to be a sahp as well.

I did 12 months mat leave for each of my children and then phased back to working full time by the time they were at primary school. A mix of nanny, nursery etc for the 1-5 years. I love how people try to shame mothers who go back to work when kids are young, but do kids actually benefit from being in a tiny home bubble all the time? Nannies and nursery staff are paid because they are excellent at early years - I am paid to be excellent at my job. Being a parent is not my only job, it is part of my life. My kids are 7 and 9.

Both OH and I have a fantastic high powered careers and get remunerated very handsomely for our Jobs with great annual bonuses. Put it this way, neither my OH or I actually 'need' to work If the other one is working. We have both been paid well above 6 figures each for a very long time. We work for us, for our sanity, to show our kids great work ethic and what can be achieved.

I wouldn't ever want to rely on someone else for money or have to argue over how much of his pension I can steal in a divorce if I've not had a career for 20 years, or how much I think I am entitled to live on per week. I also couldn't think of anything worse than having to 'find things' to fill my time whilst kids were at school and OH at work. I actually think that is a very sad way to live.

Our hard work and therefore great salaries mean we can provide the best for our kids. I drop them to school, my husband picks them up. We take great holidays together. We catch up on school with them and spend quality time together everyday. We catch up on work when the kids are in bed. The kids know that working hard is a good thing and they are already aspiring to great careers.

I would never give up my own financial independence to be a sahp. I don't want to get to old age thinking all I had done was have some kids and wait around for them to get home from school. What else did I do with this years? Watch loose women, coffee mornings or clean the loo? No thanks.

Think what future you want, when you/your oh want to retire. What holidays you want. Whether you want to help your children with property, or their first car. Can you really afford to waste your life waiting for the school bus and asking to borrow some money?!

Sounds like you're career driven anyway as you're embarrassed when you can't answer people's questions about your job. Go get yourself a career. Good luck!

I'm lucky that I can sack it off — I know most aren't. You don’t sound like you think you’re lucky, you sound spoilt and entitled. I don’t know many people who aren’t enriched and fulfilled by their jobs. There isn’t a lot of “exploiting” in this country because the job market is competitive enough that people are paid a fair wage.

These threads always seem to ignore the fact that for most people there is no choice. Either you both work to pay the bills, or you can't work because your wage is too low to cover childcare costs, there's no suitable childcare, your child has lots of medical needs, appointments etc or your partner has a job which makes it impossible to share pick up/drop off/sick days.

The only time I judge SAHMs is when they block the pavement outside school chatting away, making the rest of us having to walk in the road

@HotPenguin

These threads always seem to ignore the fact that for most people there is no choice. Either you both work to pay the bills, or you can't work because your wage is too low to cover childcare costs, there's no suitable childcare, your child has lots of medical needs, appointments etc or your partner has a job which makes it impossible to share pick up/drop off/sick days.

The only time I judge SAHMs is when they block the pavement outside school chatting away, making the rest of us having to walk in the road

This is what baffles me. I am about to become a SAHM because I have no choice; childcare costs basically the same as I earn. As a family, me working doesn't bring home any money. For everyone I know, being a SAHM isnt really a choice thing. It's a circumstance thing. Either they can afford to work and pay childcare and still come out with some money, or they cant.

If you take a long term view, breaking even, or making a loss on childcare costs for a few years is more than worth it.