Honestly, if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[SAHMparanoia]

.....or dad!

Hi,

Just that really. Have been a SAHM for a long time (over a decade) and whereas I do like the idea of going back to work - starting my own business maybe at some point, I do definitely feel a lot of pressure and judgements from other women.

I think there probably is an element of internalised judgement too. I often ask myself if it's wrong that I don't contribute anything to the family money pot, but then I obviously contribute in many other ways that my DP doesn't have time for.

If my DP didn't earn good money, I wouldn't be able to choose, so I understand that I am fortunate in that sense, but I do feel a bit like I don't "fit" anywhere now.

I don't know if that's because I genuinely want to get back to work for myself or for others. I get genuinely anxious, borderline embarrassed, when people ask what I do. There have been plenty of times my reply has been met by raised eyebrows and questions such as, "god, aren't you bored?".

I find myself almost excusing and explaining my choice, which I HATE! I shouldn't have to do that. I know I don't have to, but I feel almost cornered sometimes.

So anyway, if you're a working parent, do you look at women like me judge? Or are you also a SAHM and do feel judged?

Our work is interesting and can be fulfilling it’s challenging. But we both believe being a sahm to small children is more important and more fulfilling than our careers. Dh wanted to be sahp too we both did but I won. We could live on one of our salaries. Those 6 years were some of the best of my life.

Personally I need to fill my time with something I feel worthwhile. When the children were at school I went back to what I did before.

I don’t judge BUT... I do wonder, when the kids are older and using their own school transport for example, what do you do all day? I’ve been off on mat leave/out of work before and I love the challenge of working. I also could never bear to not have my own money.

I understand that work which fits around DC isn’t always readily available. And compromising the routine they’ve always had would lead to huge guilt but I would always advocate having job prospects.

I dont know if it's a generational thing or socio economic, or a bit of each, but I have an older relative who was a SAHM. She left work at 22 to have her first child, and never went back, despite all her children being adult by the time she was late 40s. Her DH sometimes worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. she has never done any volunteering or unpaid work, has no hobbies outside the house, no interest in politics, news, travel, art etc, and few friends - her role (and life, it seems) was basically in the house. I feel like it could have been pretty lonely.

The SAHM I know that are my age are completely different , much more social outside the house, going to art galleries, going out for lunch/coffee, seeing shows, taking the dog for walks, volunteering or charity work, doing exercise classes etc. Their social circle, and interests must be so much wider.

notaskingforafriend

Are you financially secure to due to your partner? If that person was removed from your life, could you continue as you were?

If so, then I envy your life as a sahm. If not, I’d be worried - maybe that’s just my position because I’ve experienced a divorce but was always financially ‘set’ to some degree, so it didn’t massively impact me.

No. Absolutely no judgement at all. I do worry about those stay at home parents (of either sex, but more commonly female) who are not married and have sacrificed their earning potential. A relationship breakdown leaves those people extremely vulnerable.

I also worry about their pensions (daft I know!) and "future-proofing" as a PP mentioned sometimes things happen (like a life-changing injury that can stop the earning partner from working).

If our welfare state was better I wouldn't worry. But it isn't, so I do.

No judgement, just worry.

MsTSwift by making that statement you are projecting that staying at home is not worthwhile and fulfilling. Just because it wasn't for you it doesn't mean that it isn't for some. You can fill your time with worthwhile and fulfilling activities, you just don't always need to get paid for them which is where you insinuate the value lies.

Reading this thread with interest as a sahm. I did initially work freelance at the same time but was burning out tbh. I have had some judgement irl over my choice to be at home, mainly over finances in the future etc I would just add to the poster who said she didn't know why sahms complain about cleaning - tough for everyone, but when you're at home you're obviously adding to your load all day with cooking and clearing up after it, toddler making messes etc compared to being out all day and not adding to the household mess. That's why I can find that side of it relentless at times. But I am happy with my choice overall. And that's all that matters whatever you choose.

MsTSwift apologies for not reading your posts prior to that one. I posted early on in this thread and wasn't going to come back to it as I generally find it so inflammatory.

I’ve been a lone parent pretty much the entire time, I started working again when ds went to school and stayed in that job for 6 years.

Long story but I lost that job rather dramatically but by then had met my oh and we’d moved in with him. He’s supported me for over a year and I’ve been at home. Ds is at secondary.

There was a lot to do to this house and oh has said that it’s just as well I was at home because otherwise it would have been extremely difficult to have managed everything that’s been done to the house etc. I’ve enjoyed looking after things, keeping things tidy and cooking for them etc and not running round like a nutter like I had been when working

I have had one dodgy comment from a friend. Which pissed me off because if the shoe were in the other foot I’d be pleased for her.

As it goes, I need more mental stimulation so I’ve landed a job in a mega exciting area that allows me to work part time and from home. I’m chuffed to bits and Even though the constant zooming is very different to anything I’ve ever done, I feel so much better for it.

Not sure What the friend who commented thinks, but tbh, after her Comment I put an amber flag on her in my mind.

One thought I’ve had for ages is that in terms of equality we’ll never achieve it as women when all we seem to do is judge other women for literally everything

Our age, our clothes, our hair, our makeup, our parenting, our occupations

So fucking what! Everyone is different and we’re all just trying to make things work the best we can.

We need to make sure WE are happy with our own choices and be happy for others who have made their choices

Congratulations @MzHz that sounds great!
Out of interest, would you have referred to yourself as a “SAHM”? Just thinking that you didn’t make the deliberate choice to be out of work, and it doesn’t sound like your primary reason for not working was parenting but rather the house remodel? (FWIW I think it’s a valid choice, just asking the question.)

Not many will admit it, but I think in this day and age most people (women usually) do judge SAHMs. SAHDs, however, are given huge pats on the backs by all.

Angelina huge pats on the back by women but what about other men?

I wonder what working fathers ie 99.9% of fathers make of this ‘discussion’.

@Angelina82

Not many will admit it, but I think in this day and age most people (women usually) do judge SAHMs. SAHDs, however, are given huge pats on the backs by all.

I agree. I think many people judge women as 'wasting themselves'. Even comments here about being 'financially dependent', IMO anyway, shows many feel women are lowering themselves by not working. I get it. I feel it all the time, that my brain is mush from changing nappies and singing baa baa black sheep when I have a masters degree from one of the best universities in Europe. I feel like people look at me and think "she had such potential. She was going places. Now she just looks after her kids and relies on her husband".

And they are right. I see the value of being at home (most days anyway) but for many I should somehow be able to do both; successful career, loving mum, clean house, dedicated wife. My husband regularly gets told how great he is that he changes nappies and puts our DD to bed.

The amount of 'I don't judge, BUT' comments on here is hilarious.

Either choice is valid, every one is different, everyone struggles with different things. I wouldn't judge a working parent who complained about things in life and I wouldn't judge a SAHP for complaining about things in life either. Both have equally valid struggles.

I wouldn’t judge you for being a SAHM but being at home for a long time often comes, after a time, with people feeling overwhelmed with little stuff because they are no longer used to get going with a lot of stuff.

Ie. If I have a problem that need help with, most SAHMs I know would say they will probably have some time, next week, when their teens are at school and their husband is away, they often have a full day blocked as busy because they have to pop in to the supermarket or talk to school for half an hour in the afternoon. While the WOHMs will find a time to drop off After work, with a bottle of something nice and the tools to do the job, while their kids are at sports and before going to the supermarket so they can sort dinner for later on.

I realise however that I was the same when I was a SAHM. Always extremely busy with... not much to do.

I suppose I do judge SAHPs, yes. I can't understand why women (and it's mostly women) willingly give up their financial independence and decide to dedicate all their time to facilitating their DH's career, which is seen as much more valid than anything they could ever have done. It seems so depressingly self deprecating.
If a woman has enough assets of her own, fine. But in real life, I don't know any women who actually do.
My view is coloured by the SAHMs I know in RL.
The only SAHM my age that I know well lives on a completely different planet to me. I can't relate to her at all. I really struggle to understand why she put her DC in nursery full time from 1 year old and has a cleaner once a week, yet complains they don't have the money to get on the housing ladder. She also worried for a week if her DH would buy her a new bread maker when the old one broke ("I was terrified he wouldn't") - I just don't understand why someone would choose to live like that.

My mum was a SAHM and getting a job would have helped her a lot - there was a huge power imbalance in my parents' marriage, even though my mum was in control of finances. I also think it would have increased my confidence to spend some time in childcare.
So yes, I do judge SAHPs. I don't think it's a wise choice.

Our work is interesting and can be fulfilling it’s challenging. But we both believe being a sahm to small children is more important and more fulfilling than our careers. Dh wanted to be sahp too we both did but I won. We could live on one of our salaries. Those 6 years were some of the best of my life

Why did you “win”? If you both wanted to sah why not both go on reduced hours and share the parenting?

I have two thoughts on the matter:

1. SAHMs are not a separate species. For many SAHMs, it's just a season of their life where they choose to devote all of their time and energy towards their family life and raising their children. Most women worked before becoming SAHMs and many will work afterwards. It's totally possible to switch between being a WOHP to a SAHP and vice versa. Nothing is set in stone and whilst undoubtedly having time out of the workplace (or even working PT) can negatively detriment career prospects, it doesn't have to be catastrophic and there is often opportunities to retrain and/or rejoin the workforce. The idea that WOHPs and SAHMs are somehow inherently different types of people is just bonkers and feeds the them Vs us attitude.

1. It's not just SAHMs who are not financially independent. Many people work their whole life and depend on their partner or the state to subsidise their living costs. These people could be doing "worthwhile" jobs, but live in an expensive part of the country and therefore will never earn enough to totally support themselves and their children. Like it or not, someone working FT but relying on government top ups and their partner's incomes to support their lifestyle is no more financially independent than a SAHP. Especially if the childcare that enables them to work is being paid for by the state.

someone working FT but relying on government top ups and their partner's incomes to support their lifestyle is no more financially independent than a SAHP
I agree with your point generally except this bit. By not working and not bringing in any money personally means you are 100% dependent on someone else. Topping up with government support/partner income is somewhat dependent but not entirely. Having some financial independence is better than none IMO. And there is a valid concern for women who spend a decade or more out of the workforce in terms of their potential to earn enough money to support themselves. Having said that, the only couple of SAHM I know were working minimal wage esque jobs pre kids anyway, so their earning potential won’t really have changed.

I've recently became a sahm. I've never judged anyone for their choices. I've been jealous yes, but not judgy. I used to feel like I wouldnt be contributing to the house if I wasn't working, and wished I had more time, however issues with my boss lead to me leaving, and now all I get is people asking me when I'm going to get another job, or start a new career. So yes, I think people are judgemental, but it's not other parents, it's old colleagues who knew how much work meant to me, or family who think I've given up, or the nosy old woman down the road who wants gossip.
In truth I just need the break, my kids need their mum and my husband needs his wife. I'm the happiest I've been in years. I don't miss work. I do miss my friends but we will have plenty off time to catch up once covid is over.

I won because I got 6 year career break to be with the kids! To me that’s a plus others may not agree that’s just my view. Our careers don’t work like that you are in or you are out. Too financially risky for both of us to step back. Don’t worry though I am back in the game now dh is planning to give up his job and join my business 😁

TS Six years with your dc that you wouldn't otherwise have had counts as a significant win in my view too! And one you are very very unlikely to regret.

I’d be happy to SAH but I’d be working on my writing while children were at school. Isn’t an option for me as I’m a single parent but am a little envious of those who are in a position to have that choice. I don’t judge anyone for their choices as we all have reasons to make them.