Honestly, if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[SAHMparanoia]

.....or dad!

Hi,

Just that really. Have been a SAHM for a long time (over a decade) and whereas I do like the idea of going back to work - starting my own business maybe at some point, I do definitely feel a lot of pressure and judgements from other women.

I think there probably is an element of internalised judgement too. I often ask myself if it's wrong that I don't contribute anything to the family money pot, but then I obviously contribute in many other ways that my DP doesn't have time for.

If my DP didn't earn good money, I wouldn't be able to choose, so I understand that I am fortunate in that sense, but I do feel a bit like I don't "fit" anywhere now.

I don't know if that's because I genuinely want to get back to work for myself or for others. I get genuinely anxious, borderline embarrassed, when people ask what I do. There have been plenty of times my reply has been met by raised eyebrows and questions such as, "god, aren't you bored?".

I find myself almost excusing and explaining my choice, which I HATE! I shouldn't have to do that. I know I don't have to, but I feel almost cornered sometimes.

So anyway, if you're a working parent, do you look at women like me judge? Or are you also a SAHM and do feel judged?

@MsTSwift

I won because I got 6 year career break to be with the kids! To me that’s a plus others may not agree that’s just my view. Our careers don’t work like that you are in or you are out. Too financially risky for both of us to step back. Don’t worry though I am back in the game now dh is planning to give up his job and join my business 😁

My sister did this - she had planned a 5 year career break to raise 2 kids, got pregnant with a third and had 3 more years off. Her dh then was made redundant from his big job and he didn't want another - he took a part-time charity job. While she returned to her career, he took on the lion's share of the childcare duties - and he enjoys it more this way and so does she - apart from the cleaning duties (her dh had lower standards that could not be raised) they employed a cleaner and everyone was happy.

@Bumpitybumper

I have two thoughts on the matter:

1. SAHMs are not a separate species. For many SAHMs, it's just a season of their life where they choose to devote all of their time and energy towards their family life and raising their children. Most women worked before becoming SAHMs and many will work afterwards. It's totally possible to switch between being a WOHP to a SAHP and vice versa. Nothing is set in stone and whilst undoubtedly having time out of the workplace (or even working PT) can negatively detriment career prospects, it doesn't have to be catastrophic and there is often opportunities to retrain and/or rejoin the workforce. The idea that WOHPs and SAHMs are somehow inherently different types of people is just bonkers and feeds the them Vs us attitude.

1. It's not just SAHMs who are not financially independent. Many people work their whole life and depend on their partner or the state to subsidise their living costs. These people could be doing "worthwhile" jobs, but live in an expensive part of the country and therefore will never earn enough to totally support themselves and their children. Like it or not, someone working FT but relying on government top ups and their partner's incomes to support their lifestyle is no more financially independent than a SAHP. Especially if the childcare that enables them to work is being paid for by the state.

Your second point is crazy. There’s many reasons why some people work full time and still need government help firstly we cannot all be TOP earners and secondly the living cost does not match with the wages.

A SAHP is a choice so there’s no point comparing that to someone who may work and be single and are getting government help because that’s a different scenario all together.

Where as if you don’t have the qualifications or job opportunities to get you into a high paid job that’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

Nope. Because I've been both sahm and working for equally valid reasons (not that it's anyone's business!).

People that get in a froth about it from either side, tend to have their own issues, again not my problem.

@Cannotcope4223 yes independently. I know I’m very lucky and grateful for the choices it’s given me, but it did come at the cost of a bereavement and I rather have my Dad back. I find it the ‘you leave your self financially vulnerable’ argument incredibly sad although completely understand it is just real life. If there are parents that would dearly love to care for their children full time themselves but don’t out of fear or financial necessity then something is inherently wrong with the world. That woman is written off as worthless and not worth employing if they take time out of paid employment to care for their family is disgraceful. We should be challenging these attitudes not judging each other and reinforcing them.

Agree @snappycamper. I don't always love my job - it can be very enjoyable and it had perks such as international travel (not so much atm) but sometimes it's dull and sometimes it's difficult. But it's in a field that really contributes to the good of mankind, so it feels pretty rewarding a lot of the time.

www.mothersathomematter.com/mothers?fbclid=IwAR1hlQDtz53aN1slUB-GL_YwLM90jxxQuXgSJ9DSMPG8iH-XEeWgVLvVQlw

People judge working mums too. "Strangers raising your baby", "I couldn't leave my children and work", "money isn't everything", "I make sacrifices for my family" blah blah. The cognitive dissonance almost makes their heads explode when they realise that you're a lone parent, if you don't work you'll be a "benefit scrounger" and they now need to decide which is less evil.

@DrCoconut

People judge working mums too. "Strangers raising your baby", "I couldn't leave my children and work", "money isn't everything", "I make sacrifices for my family" blah blah. The cognitive dissonance almost makes their heads explode when they realise that you're a lone parent, if you don't work you'll be a "benefit scrounger" and they now need to decide which is less evil.

Yup, But that’s just goady bullshit to justify a decision to quit work. That’s not about the working mum, it’s about thr non working one. No one in their right mind actually thinks a child in child care means that strangers are raising the child, no more than they think teachers are.

And it sounds much better to shout you’re making sacrifices than it does to say fuck yeah, I hated work.

@Littered5
You have a very narrow view of choice and the influence that people have over their lives.

You are adamant that SAHPs make the "choice" to take on that role when in fact there could be a whole host of factors that influence their decision. They may not be able to afford childcare to go back to work, they might have a child with SEN that can't cope or won't thrive in a childcare or their partner might have a career that simply doesn't facilitate both parents working out of the home. Of course there are some families that make a lifestyle choice to have one parent at home too.

Those WOHPs who aren't financially independent may too have factors that have influenced the careers or vocations they have ended up in, but equally there are lots of people that choose to enter low paid sectors and don't seek progression or pay increases. They don't seek to upskill or retrain and are happy to earn less to maintain a better work:life balance for their family.

Either way it doesn't really negate my point that the oh so precious concept of "financial independence" is a complex one that isn't rooted in moral righteousness and employment isn't a guarantee of achieving it. Those earning a fraction of what they actually need to live and judging SAHPs for not being financially independent are being hypocritical to say the least.

I’m in no way saying that being a SAHP is better for the children. Kids can thrive in all scenarios. It’s about supporting choice. That’s the heart of feminism. The same way that if a woman wants to work outside the home but can’t because childcare is prohibitively expensive, or if her employer doesn’t support flexible enough working, o if her partner won’t share the mental load. We should be fighting for that too. Not judging them for ‘not putting their kids first’- that’s bullshit.

@Bluntness100
And it sounds much better to shout you’re making sacrifices than it does to say fuck yeah, I hated work
Have you ever considered that the SAHP may have not hated work but wanted to look after their child themselves? It's like assuming when a WOHP mum says "I love my career so much I couldn't stay at home" that they actually meant "fuck yeah, I hate looking after my children myself".

Why can't we just accept that people make decisions because they see the world differently? A SAHP may well think that it's better to look after their own child themselves in a home setting where they are cared for by a parent. A WOHP may well think that their child is better off in a childcare setting where they get lots of opportunities to socialise, learn and thrive. Both views are fine and aren't some weird cover story so that the mother can avoid working or looking after their own child.

@Bumpitybumper I don’t think my view is narrow I just don’t agree with SOME parts of your comparison. Your assuming that everyone has opportunity to get a higher paid job it doesn’t work like that. Also having a job is not just about money is it?

“Those earning a fraction of what they actually need to live and judging “

You have just judged yourself!

SAHDs, however, are given huge pats on the backs by all.

Nope. DH was a SAHD. So many people were totally baffled and kept asking how come and but...but...why doesn't he work?? The same people who were SAHMs or had SAHM wifes themselves.

@Littered5
Your assuming that everyone has opportunity to get a higher paid job it doesn’t work like that
I've not assumed anything of the sort. Some people can get higher paid jobs than they currently have and become more financially independent, some can't. Some actively choose to pursue lower paid employment because it suits their lifestyle and they can get by with state subsidies or with their partner's wage combined. To pretend that everyone in a low paid job can't earn more is as ridiculous as any sweeping generalisation about any other group of people.

Of course there are other benefits to employment, as there are benefits to being a SAHP.

And I don't understand how I have judged myself?

I do. But only because the SAHMs at our school stroll out of the gate at the most leisurely pace after drop off, getting in my way when I'm doing a Mo Farah impression to get back to the car to get to work on time!

Or should that be Usain Bolt? Either way, someone who runs for a living!

[quote Bumpitybumper]@Littered5
Your assuming that everyone has opportunity to get a higher paid job it doesn’t work like that
I've not assumed anything of the sort. Some people can get higher paid jobs than they currently have and become more financially independent, some can't. Some actively choose to pursue lower paid employment because it suits their lifestyle and they can get by with state subsidies or with their partner's wage combined. To pretend that everyone in a low paid job can't earn more is as ridiculous as any sweeping generalisation about any other group of people.

Of course there are other benefits to employment, as there are benefits to being a SAHP.

And I don't understand how I have judged myself? [/quote]
I’ve not pretended anything. It funny how you seem to have excellent knowledge of how people can increase their earning potential just like that yet you sit at home yourself as a SAHM

Then go on to suggest someone who maybe like myself who works part time should then give up their job entirely because you feel it’s hypocritical.... as I and others get government assistance makes no sense.

There’s reasons why the government made rules of going back to work when your children gets to 5 and rightly so! So when we are all sat at home as SAHM where is the money going to come from? Because most people cannot afford to just stay at home completely and live off of one wage alone. Childcare is expensive but it’s not forever children do grow up..

No i don't judge unless they blame not getting back into the work force because being at home should be appreciated or then complaing when they end up being single parents and again complain they should be able to jump straight into roles

Being a SAHM is hands down way harder than being at work!! It's a 24/7 job. Neverending laundry, meals, cleaning, changing nappies, entertaining, soothing, settling for naps, getting up for night wakes, or whatever else your children need depending how old they are.

I've been on maternity for a year and just gone back to work (albeit part time) so have recent experience of both worlds, and while I'm at work and child free it's like a holiday. Though that being said, it's near impossible to manage a household while working full time - I end up catching up on a week's worth of jobs on my days off.

Long story short I absolutely would not judge a SAHM. If anything I take my hat off to you as I couldn't do it full time. It's too hard!

Nah I dont judge but I do worry for my friends who are SAHM and also not married (I'm not married but a working single mum). I worry about their pensions and security if their partner fucks off

I personally don't get the point in having kids if at least one parent isn't going to be home with them for the first few years at least.

Why pay someone else to do it? Why bother having children then.

I'm not a maternal person at all and I only have one child and not having anymore but I would have been absolutely heartbroken not to have these first few years with him full time.

@ReturnofSaturn I think this attitude is why a lot of parents judge SAHP. It's hard not to judge when someone is clearly judging you as being a sub-par parent.

return I just fancied it. And so did DH. So we did it quite a few times .
But we both really liked our jobs too so...

I shall tell my DC there’s no point to them and I shouldn’t have bothered.

I wondered when someone would post ‘why bother having children’ !

I’m obviously a very bad parent as DH and I haven’t needed to work but have done so full time.

parker same.