Friend called my kid a brat and us bad parents

[Boymom377]

We have a four year old son who can sometimes be a handful. We have very close friends who have a two year old little girl and the two of them often play together pretty well. Every now and again my son will push or do something like that ( not sharing , typical 4 year old behavior). Well the other day son threw something at the little girl. Her father screamed at my son very loudly to the point that he was hysterical. Then started yelling at us that he was out of control and we are bad parents and all sorts of horrible things that his little two year old would never do and he is a better parent and on and on. I am so hurt by this!! Not only that he screamed at my son like that but that he is one of our best friends and should be helpful and understanding not judge mental and mean. It’s not like we don’t discipline my son, we do we do not ignore his behavior but he is strong willed and we are struggling and now I know our best friend thinks our kid is out of control and thinks we are bad parents. Am I wrong here? Does he have a right to yell at my son and us about this?? This isn’t horrible behavior like punching or really hurting her, it’s two toddlers fighting over toys and making messes and not always listening. I’ve been in tears for days over this. I don’t want to hang out with them and have him judging us all the time. I’m having a hard enough time as is. Parenting isn’t easy. I don’t know what to even say to him when I see him. Does he have the right to yell at my kid and yell at us? I feel he was way out of line, am I wrong???

He shouldn't have shouted but at the age of 4, unless there are other additional needs your son should absolutely not be pushing or throwing things - especially at a 2 year old! She could have been badly hurt, you can't say that he isn't doing anything to hurt her when he is being physical with her. He is old enough to understand that she is alot younger and definitely old enough to not be physical with people.

Why was it him who needed to shout at your son? Your son should have been taken away from the little girl the moment he began getting rough with her. There is a huge difference between rough play and pushing and throwing things at someone.

Parenting is hard OP and 4 year olds CAN be stubborn little terrors, my 4 year old is a strong willed little handful too! I'm sure nobody thinks that you are a crap parent, but that kind of behaviour does need to be dealt with and different children respond better to different forms of discipline.

You should have stepped in immediately when he threw something. You cannot hang out with your friend with the children. Concentrate on better supervision of your child and discipline him better. I get how it feels to have your child shouted at by another adult, it hurts.

@pilates

I think this is a build up of various incidences where his daughter has got upset or hurt and he snapped. I’m not saying it’s right to scream at a 4 year old. Perhaps you should have a break from socialising with the children for a while.

I thought this too. Behind the scenes, this has been brewing for a while. Maybe he said to his wife that he didn’t want your son to play with his daughter, didn’t want to go as he didn’t like the behaviour etc. So his trigger, to put it that way, was hair sprung; he was on tenterhooks for that sort of incident and so reacted aggressively when it happened. Hard to judge the severity of the incident from what you’ve said, but probably best to keep your son away for a while.

You can't always control your child just because he's four. You can try.

Agree that just being on hand to supervise would help.

Is OP still around? This needs more context, I feel like it’s only part of the story...is this out of the blue behaviour from the father, is he a shouty guy normally? What was thrown? Is it typical behaviour of your son to throw something? This is only one side and part of the story, needs more detail...

To me it boils down to whether or not you call your child out each time he misbehaves. Children behave badly sometimes, but if you follow up on bad behaviour appropriately I'd say YANBU. If however you make excuses ("oh he's a handful", "boys will be boys", "if you do that one more time we're leaving" x 10) then I'd likely remove myself and my child from the situation too.

I have a fairly gentle girl who is sometimes on the receiving end of this stuff, from two friends' children in particular. One friend always - always, like clockwork - watches her son closely, sees when he seems to be about to do something silly, intervenes quickly if he pushes etc; the other seems to ignore things happening right in front of her and gets defensive if I ask her to deal with it or intervene myself after multiple occasions. You can guess who I'm happier to see.

He's a knob.
Regardless of how badly behaved your son is,he screamed abuse at him and about him in front of two small children. It makes you wonder if his child is so well behaved because elsewise he loses his shit and the poor child is too scared to put a foot wrong.
He would not be coming back to my home ever again and I would be logging my concerns at his temper around children being ridiculous on behalf of his poor child. What a bully

When my daughter was young one of my best friends had two young sons. Their behavior was terrible much of the time. My friend saw it as boisterous I saw it as totally unguided. Every moment with the boys I had to be on my guard and it just wasn't pleasant socializing together for me, but it was great for my friend.
We all have different viewpoints about what is ok. Possibly your friends have been trying to make the friendship work despite your parenting differences, but it all just became too much for them. And you don't see that your son needs a stronger and more disciplined approach around their child.
Learn from this, properly observe your child in social situations, and observe other children too. Then think and decide what you feel is right and maybe find a social match that is better for your family.....or rein in your sons behavior and guide him to a more gentle approach.
These early years are so important in development and set a benchmark for the future. Don't brush this aside, but instead look and possibly learn from it.

A 4 year old is still learning about how the world works and how to behave.

A grown man however should know better than to shout at a 4 year old and call you shitty things.

And if OP had posted that her DH had reacted this way to a 4 year old he would be being ripped to shreds on here, there’s a little bit of smug judging going on “Oh a man shouted at your son and called him a brat ? Maybe you should rethink your parenting OP ?” What the fuck ??

Cut ties with this man OP, he sure as hell wouldn’t have reacted that way in front of your child’s dad.

i would never speak to that man again.

Already said on here but your son is not a toddler. You need to readjust your expectations of appropriate behaviour for the child that he is. To use one of your examples: not sharing is perfectly normal for a 2 year. It’s not ok for a 4 year old. If your child can’t understand that a 2 year old is younger, smaller and doesn’t understand things like sharing then they shouldn’t be playing together.

Sounds like you were too slow to react. You should have dealt with the situation before your friend had chance to shout. It’s really stressful to have your child play with someone who you know to be badly behaved and likely to hurt your child at some point. He was probably on a knife edge the whole time just waiting for something like this to happen.

He’s holding the four year old to better standards of behaviour than himself.

He was absolutely wrong to start ranting at you and your DS. There are a whole range of adult ways he could have used to address what had happened.

However, it does sound like what he said, as terribly as it was expressed, might be true. My DS and DD are 10 and nearly-12 now and the children who were throwing things, snatching toys, running off with other children’s possessions etc at 4 are all ‘problem children’ with academic and friendship issues by the end of primary/start of secondary. I have no idea if it’s nature or nurture, I suspect a combination of the two, but I am sure it would have been easier to correct at 4 if it had been dealt with properly at the time instead of being explained away.

TBH, it does sound like he finally snapped after what, over a period of time, he sees as a badly behaved child and ineffectual parenting. I suspect his version of what your son was doing would be different (with the truth being somewhere in the middle!)

I get it - I have two sons, one was like an angel and one was the complete opposite, strong willed and prone to outbursts. It's not always just down to parenting but you do need to be extra firm with clear cut boundaries for the "difficult" child.

I don't think I could forget a comment like that. They've clearly discussed your sons behaviour and your parenting behind your back. Is that the sort or friendship you want? I can understand a momentary loss of control if he thought his child was about to get hurt but it seems that this runs deeper.

Hope you and your son are ok.

They've clearly discussed your sons behaviour and your parenting behind your back

If they have, it suggests that the problem is far bigger than implied in the OP.

I’d say throwing a toy is quite serious and can badly injure someone. My son was similar at that age and it was hard work. The lowest point came when he threw a hard plastic toy at my daughter’s friend who is three years older than him. It actually cut his forehead slightly and so he had a mark on his head. I felt absolutely horrified and also quite frightened at the damage my son could potentially do to someone. I came down on him like a ton of bricks, wouldn’t let him play with them anymore, repeatedly said over and over the next few days “you NeVER throw toys at anyone EVER!” drilling it into him constantly. He did stop doing it but I had to watch him like a hawk if there were other kids around.
That dad should never have yelled at you and he could’ve handled it infinitely better. I don’t know whether he was frustrated that you were acting too laid back at what could have been quite a serious injury. Toys can really hurt when thrown.

He should never have screamed at your son. For that I wouldnt entertain him again. But I have a 2 year old DD who often plays with my friends 4yo and I would not be pleased if they intentionally chucked something at my DD, accidents happen and kids can push and shuv etc if anything it's me telling my DD to play nicely and apologising, While my friends 4yo says"its ok she only a baby" so I understand kids will be kids and mine is no angel. but surely your DS should know this is not ok.

Does he go nursery? I would work on that tbh and avoid that family from now on.

One thing I learned in retail is that when people describe other adults as "screaming and shouting at them" then they usually mean that they raised their voice slightly.

We need more information really. What do you do when DS is misbehaving?

My DS is a handful, he is friends with a little girl the same age ( both 3 ) if hes getting frustrated occasionally he will push, kick or throw something. If he does hes straight in the corner or I take him home.

If you have been friends for a while it sounds like the dads got fed up of you not saying or doing anything. I have been friends with people in the past who dont teach their children properly..... you end up extremely disliking the "naughty" child and the lazy parents too!

That's not me saying my DD at 4 will never do this Btw. But I wouldnt just shrug it off as normal behaviour, especially against a child much younger.

Shouting at someone else's child isn't acceptable. But as a few posters have pointed out I imagine your child's behaviour is pretty awful and you let things slide.

He was absolutely wrong to shout, no question. But you also need to stop thinking of him as a toddler and throwing things in people's faces as one of those things. Of course he is still learning, but you need to be teaching him.

I think one of the questions is why did the father get in their first, why di you or your husband not react first? I’ve seldom seen someone react like this if the parent was effectively dealing with it. This snapping usually indicates they had to step in

I also wonder why you refer to your child as a toddler. You know he’s not. Is it a way to mentally justify his behaviour, to put him in the same group as the two year old?

I’ve come across two poorly behaved children of this age of close friends, one turned out to have a disability, but was unknown at the time, an him pushing and throwing was difficult to witness when it was one on one, your instinct is to protect your child, so we socialised without the kids as it was easier, until later he was diagnosed.

The second child, actually the child of my best friend, it was her parenting, there was no consequences, no removal from the situation, no rewards, no anything and I have to say it damaged our friendship some what but from my side, as she’d smile benignly or laugh when he smashed crisps into thr carpet, chucked his toys, pushed other kids, and I didn’t really wish to be party to it.

I don’t think you’re in either of these buckets, but understanding why this man was first to react, and what you do when this behaviour occurs is key to helping resolve it, for your kids sake.

slashlover
90% of the time that's true in teaching too.