Friend called my kid a brat and us bad parents

[Boymom377]

We have a four year old son who can sometimes be a handful. We have very close friends who have a two year old little girl and the two of them often play together pretty well. Every now and again my son will push or do something like that ( not sharing , typical 4 year old behavior). Well the other day son threw something at the little girl. Her father screamed at my son very loudly to the point that he was hysterical. Then started yelling at us that he was out of control and we are bad parents and all sorts of horrible things that his little two year old would never do and he is a better parent and on and on. I am so hurt by this!! Not only that he screamed at my son like that but that he is one of our best friends and should be helpful and understanding not judge mental and mean. It’s not like we don’t discipline my son, we do we do not ignore his behavior but he is strong willed and we are struggling and now I know our best friend thinks our kid is out of control and thinks we are bad parents. Am I wrong here? Does he have a right to yell at my son and us about this?? This isn’t horrible behavior like punching or really hurting her, it’s two toddlers fighting over toys and making messes and not always listening. I’ve been in tears for days over this. I don’t want to hang out with them and have him judging us all the time. I’m having a hard enough time as is. Parenting isn’t easy. I don’t know what to even say to him when I see him. Does he have the right to yell at my kid and yell at us? I feel he was way out of line, am I wrong???

*bad behaviour

My DS is strong willed. And can get pretty excitable and loud. But he is kind and caring and plays well with other children. He can be a handful at times but not in a bad way that I am concerned he will hurt other children.

That spirit and joy for life is not something I am prepared to break.

He is disciplined and kept in check.

I have been pissed off recently with someone telling my DS not to do things. Its not that DH or I was absent, it was purely because it was not considered something we would discipline for.

There have been times when i have felt they were too harsh on their child.

Ultimately we just parent differently. No way is wrong or right although i would never tell off someone else's child if the parent is there.

Its really hard to tell from OP who is in the wrong. Did the man let loose in the way she says? If he did then he is behaving terribly.

Was her DS behaving really badly and does he always behave really badly?

Some parents are blind to their own child’s behaviour. Yesterday I saw an older (age 5?) boy deliberately trip a younger boy (age 2 or 3) while walking towards their mothers. The younger boy took a pretty bad tumble. If it hadn’t have been grass, there would have been blood, perhaps a chipped tooth. The mother of the older boy was on her phone and completely missed her son tripping the younger boy on purpose. The mother of the younger boy saw it and her concern was for her son. But I saw her look at her friend and across her face was annoyance and frustration that the other mother didn’t see it and didn’t seem to even care that the younger boy had mysteriously taken a full face flat to ground tumble.

I know I’m biased by seeing this only yesterday OP, but I do feel you may be missing the full extent of your boys bad behaviour. If you are seeing him push or throw things at the girl, there are probably times he’s gotten away with such aggression without you even noticing.

Yes the girls father shouldn’t have lost his shit, but I feel it is understandable. Close friends are more likely to try and keep the peace and trust that their close friends will modify their out of control child behaviour. But then the frustration builds up. And then the straw breaks. You say he screamed at your son once, then he started yelling at you. But you do not say what he screamed at your son. If it was a simple one sentence “don’t throw things at my daughter, you could have hurt her” then I disagree he was “hysterical” or bullying or anything. Yes another parent shouldn’t discipline someone else’s child but when you repeatedly watch your child physically threatened and abused over and over by another child and that parent does nothing, you can lose your temper.

As for what to do. You need to discipline your child. Minimising his age and behaviour isn’t going to help things and he will be in school,soon. You don’t want to send in a class bully who likes pushing over and throwing things at girls.

If you describe him as a handful and strong willed, others will certainly see him as destructive or aggressive. It was not two toddlers, it was a four year old and a toddler and the toddler got injured. The father shouldn't have reacted like that and should apologize. However, he was protecting his daughter, who at 2 is pretty much still a baby. My children have been on the receiving end of 'strong willed' children and I wish that I had been less tolerant of their behaviour. Often, when I see such behaviour, their parents are standing around chatting in the parks and simply not paying sufficient attention or closely supervising. Meanwhile I have always stood close by and been extremely hands on to ensure that my children wait their turn/don't push in/are gentle and kind to others. And it does annoy me when my children get pushed around by other children whose parents don't put in the same amount of supervision. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but the reality is that, if someone else exploded like that, they had likely reached the end of their tether. It doesn't make you a bad parent, but you do need to ensure much closer supervision if your son cannot be trusted not to throw things at other children (which can be as aggressive as hitting another child).

He was wrong to scream at your child. I wouldn't see him again.
The parent of a 2 year old probably cannot envisage what it's like having a 4 year old. I remember being frustrated with a friends child and now thinking I was very wrong to feel like that. Just move on... you're unlikely to recover from this and I wouldn't expose my son to him again.

@LeroyJenkinssss

Hmm what did he actually say or do? Because in my experience the parents who describe their DC as strong willed and spirited are exactly the same parents who think anyone who tells off said child is in the wrong / screaming / abusive.

I’d be very interested to hear the dads side of it.

It’s hard not to conclude the OP is an unreliable witness to this event. The majority of pps have dismissed her description of her son as not credible. Why would the description of the father be any better? Especially if the OP is going over it in her head. That distorts all events.

A low calm request to please stop isn’t always effective with an out of control child. Sometimes it needs a strong authoritative Stop that immediately. And yes that could upset a little boy not used to it.

I am afraid I go with the conclusion the OP is probably not telling the version others would about the whole incident not just parts.

People are judgemental by nature. Once they make that judgement they see you and your actions through that prism.

OP, if you've been crying for days and you think your friend's response is "way out of line", then I do believe you're underplaying your son's behaviour and there's a problem with discipline.

If you describe him as a handful and strong willed, others will certainly see him as destructive or aggressive

Not necessarily.

I would describe my DS this way. He is not destructive or aggressive and no-one would ever think he was, because well, he's not!

@Boymom377 if you're very close friends as you say, he probably felt he could be honest. Absolutely unacceptable for him to shout as he did and you should address that with him, but I wonder how many things have gone before and this was the last straw.

You start by saying DS is a 'bit of a handful' but then go on to say 'he is strong willed and we're struggling.' If you're struggling it doesn't sound like normal 4 year old behaviour and I don't think close friends would go mad over nothing.

Janet Lansbury has written some great stuff, including 'No Bad Kids.' Worth a read.

However, 4 year old boys have a surge of testosterone and they will be more rough etc”

Some may well, ours didn’t. Very gentle soul then, still is now, grown up. Our daughter was much more of a “handful” but she knew full well not to throw things at people when she was 4.

“Handful” to you has clearly become intolerable to your friend, who’s looking out for his child too, and he’s probably not the only one. You don’t seem to be attempting to see it from his point of view, rather just continuing to make excuses for your child’s poor behaviour.
No, yelling at kids is never desirable but suspect from what you’ve said he’s been biting his tongue for a quite some time for the sake of your friendship. This pretty serious incident was obviously the final straw.

No idea about “rights”? Bit of an odd thing to say.

What was the object?
What action did you take when your child did this?

It sounds like your minimising your son’s behaviour, so is it also possible that you’re exaggerating your friend’s response to seeing his child get hurt?

If an older child hurt my kid and I knew that their parents usually didn’t check his behaviour I would absolutely tell that child that they were not allowed to hurt mine. I would never scream at someone else’s child though, did he really scream? Or was he just stern?

Where has the OP gone? She’s not responded at all

@BrandyandBabycham

Where has the OP gone? She’s not responded at all

Given the spelling of her username, I'm thinking she's probably in the US or Oz.

Your 4 year old threw something at a 2 year old.

I'm not surprised he has blown up about it but he shouldn't have shouted at your child. Did you give your kid a row for throwing something at his daughter?

You've said yourself your kid is a handful and that you're struggling, maybe your friend is struggling with his kid being hurt, especially if it happens everytime they meet with you.

Your son is not a toddler. At all. He's 4.

He was wrong to say hurtful things about your parenting and upset your son like that, but if you ignore violent bad behaviour your child will think it is ok. It is tantrums that should be ignored, not kicking and throwing things at other kids.

I'm one of those mum's who would tell other kids off if their parents aren't doing it and my son is getting upset or hurt by someone (I will most likely get beats for this when he is a teenager and a very embarrassed son!), but I am equally quick to pull my own son up on his behaviour.

It is great that your son is strong willed and knows his own mind, but it might be an idea to channel it into an activity around other kids or keep them separate.

I would have a word with the family and say both you and your son were really upset by what was said and that they should have talked to you before getting to the point they were losing their temper. Suggest ways of sorting the issue out and encourage them to say when they think things are getting out of hand. They probably don't think you are that bad as a parent, they just said it in the heat of the moment from frustration.

I can't believe all these people who do not ever expect bad behaviour from a 4 year old.! Yes, it was bad behaviour but it is normal for children to behave badly sometimes. Yes, you need to address the behaviour but it is not always possible to prevent it entirely.

That said, the 2 year old's Dad was probably shocked and upset. He reacted to the inherent danger. Yes, I think his outburst was over the top. But again, it happens and he only shouted. Hopefully he will reflect on this because things like this will happen time and time again as his daughter goes to playgroups, school etc.

I would apologise / make your son apologise. Be seen to have words with your son about the behaviour. Then distance yourself for a bit but be friendly if they contact you.

Every now and again my son will push or do something like that ( not sharing , typical 4 year old behavior).

It is a little worrying that you equate not sharing and pushing a child half his age, as if they were somehow similar. What are the consequences for pushing or throwing things? At that age, I would have taken the offender straight home and not let them out again for the rest of the day. As the parent, I would have let him know he was in disgrace and must never do that again.

No, the dad should not have shouted. But you need to be quicker off the mark.

This guy sounds unbalanced Your son maybe deserved a telling off. But being screamed at by this man nah I would tell him to do one and not have anymore to do with them. You might need to be a bit firmer with your son though throwing things at smaller children really isn't on is it?

You need to start disciplining your DC effectively and not just blaming the other parent for over reacting. Sounds like you don't react much at all - it's a boys will be boys type of attitude. Your DC needs to learn boundaries, and public behaviour norms before he gets to school, because if you don't teach him, the older kids will.

I expect he "shouted and screamed" to the same degree that you have been "crying for days".

Are you always this dramatic?

I don't think you can really say this man is unbalanced from OP. OP doesn't state what he has yelled. He screamed and yelled, maybe to stop? Then the Op's dc became hysterical. Instead of telling him off, what did she do? Comfort him? We don't know.

Ironic that the father got so out of control and had a massive tantrum himself. Hardly a great role model for the kids.

I know zip about kids but sounds like you are aware and I am sure 4 year olds can be difficult. If you have real concerns see a professional.

I don't think I'd hang out with this guy any more though because he sounds abusive. His daughter will be doing plenty silly and dangerous things soon enough - I just hope screaming at her with his eyes popping won't be the way he deals with her

E
He is 4 and she is 2 so yes he could have really hurt her. You don't seem to think it's a big deal but at 4 he should know better. Just imagine how you'd feel if a 6 year old threw something at your son.
The parent was OTT but I wonder how many times this has happened before. It was out of order to make your son hysterical and shout at you but I can't understand why you didn't say something at the time. You could have just said "I'll deal with this."
Like others have said he's not a toddler.

TBH it sounds like your friend gets worked up about how your son is and got to the end of his tether. He probably has to put up with his little girl either crying before or after your visit because your son was mean to her. Maybe accept theres too much of an age difference for them to play or as the others have been saying - and I mean this in the nicest possible way - and look at your son's behaviour.