Friend called my kid a brat and us bad parents

[Boymom377]

We have a four year old son who can sometimes be a handful. We have very close friends who have a two year old little girl and the two of them often play together pretty well. Every now and again my son will push or do something like that ( not sharing , typical 4 year old behavior). Well the other day son threw something at the little girl. Her father screamed at my son very loudly to the point that he was hysterical. Then started yelling at us that he was out of control and we are bad parents and all sorts of horrible things that his little two year old would never do and he is a better parent and on and on. I am so hurt by this!! Not only that he screamed at my son like that but that he is one of our best friends and should be helpful and understanding not judge mental and mean. It’s not like we don’t discipline my son, we do we do not ignore his behavior but he is strong willed and we are struggling and now I know our best friend thinks our kid is out of control and thinks we are bad parents. Am I wrong here? Does he have a right to yell at my son and us about this?? This isn’t horrible behavior like punching or really hurting her, it’s two toddlers fighting over toys and making messes and not always listening. I’ve been in tears for days over this. I don’t want to hang out with them and have him judging us all the time. I’m having a hard enough time as is. Parenting isn’t easy. I don’t know what to even say to him when I see him. Does he have the right to yell at my kid and yell at us? I feel he was way out of line, am I wrong???

Well I was a very lively four year old. Very lively indeed! Strong willed and no doubt a handful. However that liveliness did not extend to hitting or throwing things especially at small children. They arent the same thing and I think we shouldn't put the two together automatically. I have an interesting collection of scars from inanimate objects and was definitely judged but was brought up not to bully - like 99% of us.

The OP clearly has an issue on her hands. I don't think that the man literally screamed. It's the most over used expression ever - it's likely he raised his voice and spoke quite strongly. She came on here hoping for lots of "there, there"s and didn't get them and is now not coming back which speaks volumes to me (although protocol after someone saying this is for them to pop up indignantly saying they were simply busy, effusively thinking the few posters who agreed with them and dismissing the others).

@mimumstandard no one is talking about your son because lively and spirited are not the same as the OPs son's behaviour. Meanness is a very different thing all together.

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl. @mimumstandard no one is talking about your son because lively and spirited are not the same as the OPs son's behaviour. Meanness is a very different thing all together.

Thanks for that . But I wasn't talking about my son but Carycy's - SonEtLumiere said that it was a child like Carycy's son who hospitalised her own child. I just find that an absurd comment to make when she's never met Carycy's son and nothing has been said to indicates that he has a history of violence of any sort. Insulting people's children unjustifiably like that is not really appropriate.

He could be a brat and you bad parents but if he really did lose it, then he's in the bad parent category too.

It's worth chatting about and seeing things from each other's perspective but if he can't see that losing it, if he really did, is not great either, then there isn't really much hope of mending bridges.

He’s never hurt anyone seriously
This isn’t horrible behavior like punching or really hurting her

Comments by a pp and the OP.

Your children are hurting other children. They simply shouldn't.
It seems like your tolerance level is already higher than for other parents.

Another thing was the sharing. What is the likelihood that these children like to take toys away from other children and effectively start the fights without their parents even saying a word?

Where have I said my child is hurting anyone?

He isn’t. Ffs. Has has been injured by other kids. I don’t judge the parents though.

@SonEtLumiere. I could equally say, reading too much between the lines, that your child is a precious, melodramatic goody-two-shoes who brattishly overreacts when asked to sit next to less popular children and makes a huge fuss to the teacher when she can't sit next to her friends. I could also suggest that, when you complain to the teacher about seating plans, the teacher rolls her eyes and thinks, "It's one of those parents again". Truth is, I don't know your child and I'm sure she's delightful.

My 2 year old, like Carycy's boy, is just a little bit spirited and boisterous, has never hurt anyone seriously and is just a bit impulsive and excitable and struggles to keep still. What I mean by that is that he loves rough and tumble and running around the park, needs to be reminded to look where he's going so he doesn't bang into anyone and prefers active play to circle time. What I don't mean is that he hits, pushes, kicks, bites other children or throws toys. He has occasionally knocked a smaller child down because he hasn't been looking where he's going, but he is only 2 . I suppose in your book that condemns him as that child that everyone will avoid henceforth for life. Happily for him, no one in real life seems to think so.

Don’t you think the children with stitches and bones in plaster get to define their own experience. Or should they be made to shut up?

Most childhood accidents that end up at A&E are caused by inadequate supervision by adults (especially on trampolines), not by child-on-child violence. Where young children injure other children, it's usually the fault of the adults who were meant to be supervising them since children don't have a developed concept of risk and consequences and act impulsively. You are hugely exaggerating here, no doubt based on your own experience. Pushing, kicking, hitting and pinching are all very unpleasant behaviour, distressing for the victim and should be stopped, but really I don't think hospitals across the country treat all that many children seriously injured in vicious attacks by other children.

Sonet lumiere you really need to get off your high horse and stop jumping to conclusions.
My son is 6. He has been assessed twice, once at nursery once at school. He had a lot of health problems as a baby and ongoing which I think could have affected him. I am constantly looking into ways I can help him challenge his energy and impulsiveness. The only time he is hurt kids is bumping into them etc. he occasionally gets into skirmished with fellow “alpha” type boys. Don’t worry he actually plays really nicely with the gentler kids. He is very empathetic and loving and thoughtful. I had a mum thank me that he helped her daughter fix her LEGO proJect after another boy smashed it up. That boy had autism. I suppose you blame that boys parent too. I do everything I can to channel his energy. I take him for runs in the morning before school, I take him to the park after school. I take him to as many sports as I can. I cancel screens after a certain time. He has fidget toys to play with in class . I am looking into getting him assessed once more. Believe me I am doing all that I can. I challenge way more of my energy into him than I do my other two children. So no I am not in denial. But parents cannot fundamentally change their children. And to have no empathy for a parent struggling with a child’s behaviour says more about you than the parent,

@Carycy. All children have their struggles and all parents have their particular challenges...Sounds like you're doing just fine.

The bad luck for you is that your son's energy makes him more 'visible' in terms of behaviour - lots of judgemental parents who think they have "perfect" children are often ignoring less visible behavioural issues including whining, lying, sneakiness, goadiness and a tendency to exclude or be spiteful to others. No child is perfect and they all have their faults. I remember as a child I used to goad my brother for ages until he finally hit me... He was the one who got in trouble not me. Our mum should definitely have been more on the ball .

I haven't RTFT.
I sympathise some what. DD was very gentle U admittedly tutted at parents when their DC hurt her.
Then I had DS now 5 he is huge rough & can act out aggressively with SEN I don't allow him play with younger DC or any DC unless heavily supervised.
It is a recipe for disaster.

Minimumstandard
To be fair, I think son has a point. Someone saying their child has never seriously hurt a child is acknowledging their child has hurt other children. Plus their child throws things at a toddler as the mum minimises it as normal toddler behaviour (for a 4 year old!)

No child should have to be in a situation at school where they are subjected to that sort of behaviour and no teacher would be rolling their eyes if a parent called requesting their child isn't sat with a child who is prone to hurting others.

I've taught some lovely, genuinely spirited students and they're needed help to learn to focus/need break and lunch to let off their energy, but I've also met a good number of students who are aggressive to others, don't do as they're told and have been clearly taught by parents that they don't have to do as they're told because there's always an excuse.

The former are a delight

The latter are not and have seen me in situations where I've been assaulted/verbally abused by students, and their parents ask what I did to provoke their DC and blame me for telling their child that their conduct isn't acceptable because "he finds James annoying and you should know he doesn't like being told what to do".

@LolaSmiles. I agree with everything you say - I also think throwing toys needs to be dealt with (especially for a 4 year old). And that there is a distinction between lively and aggressive children.

My only point is this - how do we know that son's child is a delight, as opposed to an overbearing spoilt "mean girl" type who hugely exaggerates what is going on because she wants to sit next to her friends and not some horrid boy? We don't, we just have to take her word for it. Which we should do because we've never met the child and making nasty assumptions about children you've never met is inappropriate. Why, then, is it ok for son to accuse a child she's never met (who isn't even the subject of this thread) of being a nasty violent thug simply because she disagrees with his mum's viewpoint?

Minimumstandard
I see what you mean.

For me there are a couple of giveaways that would suggest euphemistic spirited rather than genuinely pleasant spirited. I could be wrong, but the things that stand out to me are:

• minimising her child's behaviour because they haven't 'seriously' hurt someone
• calling a 4 year old a toddler
• talking about how her and her child have been devestated for days after someone apparently screamed and shouted in their faces

The trend I've noticed where parents use 'spirited' as a euphemism is that they tend to downplay their child's behaviour whilst being quite melodramatic regarding other people's reactions to their DC's behaviour.

Eg. Their child will have been involved in a 'minor scuffle' or a 'littlw bit of rough play' but the teacher or dinner lady will almost always have screamed at their child, yelled in their face.
Their DC will always be 'a little distracted' or be 'very energetic' but the teacher will almost always have humiliated their child or shouted at them in front of the class.
Their DC might be 'being a typical boy' (or another silly sexist stereotype that assumes boy equals disruptive or naughty or violent), but if other children decide they don't want to play or be friends then the other children are bullies. If other children's parents express concerns or frustrations or want their DC kept away then it's 'disgusting how some adults target my DC' or they'll be sarcastically called 'the perfect parents'.

Did OP ever come back ? 🤔

@LolaSmiles. I think you're talking about the OP's child, rather than Carycy's child. The OP may be the sort of wet lettuce parent you describe allowing her son to get away with all sorts...we don't know as she hasn't returned . On the other hand, Carycy seems quite honest and on the ball about her DS and how she manages his behaviour. My child was hospitalized by a child like your son is a cheap, melodramatic shot and anyone who posts that sort of thing could obviously do with a few lessons in self-control themselves.

Minimumstandard
I was talking more generally in the latter part of my reply, rather than any poster's specific child.

The OP didn't come back. Some of us up thread said either they're doing the Mumsnet furry hands thing (which has prompted some interesting discussion in places) or they're not coming back as it didn't go their way.

The difference I think is that Minimumstandard would be happy to see “Mean Girls” hospitalised for their bossiness, as long as the child who put them there wasn’t asked to take any responsibility. Message received Loud and Clear

That's not what I said at all . I said you had no right to accuse a child you've never met and know little about of being a violent thug. It shows a remarkable lack of fair play and judgement.

@stayathomer

Or possibly the people who have gotten carried away have upset the op and she doesn't know what to say. Why does everyone think the worst of people?!

It's not 'thinking the worst', it's the reality of the trolling that (now) happens on MN.

Hundreds of thought-through, well crafted (sometimes) replies. To Deep Space, as the OP has long gone. 200-700 relies ago.

If the replies of unknown, anonymous people on what is, by internet standards, a reasonably well moderated site causes them to flee; they shouldn't be on here in the first place.

See a post, read it, check the number of replies, 'filter' by OP.

Then decided if the 5-10 minutes you take to reply is a contribution to the 'Good' in the universe; or time you'll never get back,

A 4 year old is not a toddler, and he shouldn't be throwing things at wee girls.
Her father sounded like he'd had enough of your son's behaviour, which makes me think that this wasn't a one-off. Sorry OP, but I don't blame him for being protective of his young daughter.

And are you certain that he actually 'screamed' at your son? Or spoke in a raised voice? The former seems unlikely to me ...