I don't like my daughter

[Noodlepopps]

Ok, so posting here for traffic. I have 2 daughters, aged 2 and 4. I adore my 2 yr old and I strongly dislike my 4 yr old. She's awful to me, never listens, hits me, throws things, cries and screams constantly, pushes her sister over, she's even told me she wants me to die so I never come back. I am inconsistent with how I deal with her, I've tried ignoring her, being calm, holding her, naughty step, sending her to bed, taking toys away. But a lot of the time I end up shouting at her, which I know is wrong but I get to the point of frustration that I can't take it anymore. I would never hurt her. I've said some horrible things to her though and I go to bed and cry my eyes out because I know I'm ruining my future relationship with her and I think things are verging on verbal abuse. I've spoken to my HV, she comes out to see us every few weeks but she just says I'm 'doing a good job' and I need to focus on myself a bit more. My husband works away and he comes home every few weeks for a week at a time. I'm getting to the point where I don't think I want my 4 yr old anymore, as awful as that sounds. I can't cope with her behaviour, I can't cope with my emotions (I have possible, undiagnosed PTSD). I don't know what to do. Nobody knows how I feel or how difficult things are apart from my husband who is amazing, but can't be here all the time. If anyone has any advice, I would be so grateful.

Some posters have suggested referrals for ASD, ADHD etc. Now is not the time. Your daughter needs a sustained period of consistent, overtly loving parenting before any professional can do a meaningful assessment. An incorrect diagnosis could complicate things.

I think your older DD maybe jelous of her younger sister. It happens a lot between siblings. You need to reassure her that you love both of them the same as children can feel the difference but she also needs to know her boundaries.
Someone once suggested here to read a Mercury Child. Have a look at this book.

To clarify without 'outing' myself, my husband runs 3 companies, so he is self employed. He travels to Europe a lot for work. He isn't in a position to take a step back or spend more time at home at the moment but it's something that will hopefully happens in the next year or 2.

I have posted my concerns in parenting groups a few times but have always been assured that everything I'm saying is 'normal' hence why I have posted here, because I know I will get actual advice instead of just platitudes and reassurance.

Yes I agree at the moment there is nothing to say a diagnosis is needed and that consistent positive parenting wont solve. In effect OP the first stage is figuring out if you are caught in a vicious circle of cause and effect on her behaviour.

You need to fix you and fast because I think you are in danger of creating a child here that doesnt need to be

I don't think that shouting at her is a good idea, it will only escalate into a shouting match between the two of you. She needs your attention, so can she 'help' you with the two year old? Fetching clothes, getting toys etc? Give her lots of positive praise for being a good girl and helping you.
The technique I use with my grandchildren is to remark casually to mum, in their hearing, that it's so lovely that x is so polite, or so helpful. The children 'overhear' what you are saying about them and will take it on board, and hopefully want to demonstrate that they really are helpful and polite.
I would also deal very firmly with any throwing or hitting. Not by shouting, but by speaking very calmly and firmly, and with a serious expression, explaining why it is wrong to hit someone. Then I would ask for an apology, and follow up with a cuddle and praise for apologising.

What does she eat?

If there's a lot of sugar and processed foods, I really would try changing her diet. Obviously, you'll need to change it for the whole family, not just her. And it'll be really, really hard at first. But stand firm and within a couple of weeks, you'll notice a difference in her mood and attitude.

It doesn't really matter what is considered 'normal' or not. It sounds like you're having a really dfficult time, and there are definitely things that you can do to improve the situation. Both for you and your DC.

OP, does your husband know what is going on in the home in his absence?

Good point, bridget. Check she's getting fresh air, exercise, plenty water ( my kids are camels). Avoid sugary crap - including fruit juice.

Also maybe worth looking itno 'simplicity' parenting - basically keep rooms as low on clutter as you can, instigate routines, simplify surroundings. I think that helps kids stay calmer.

Normally I'd suggest something like Homestart - but I don't know what there able to do at the minute - but there were great for a Mum friend who had MH problems and a young child.

I think I was lucky with a similar age gap - though by 4 DD1 had two siblings and DH was away a lot- as she was very keen to help with younger siblings - lot of little fectching and carrying - plus I could get out to groups which helped me stay sane.

If she's starting school in September there may be some help they can offer so worth asking - though after starting she may well be very tired and play up accordingly.

I'd go to GP and HV again - get on waiting lists even it there's a long wait for help.

Consistency, routine and pleanty of excerise all helped us at that age. Getting out the house somewhere different even to park can help lift everyone moods.

If she is starting school - practise getting ready this next week as flash points for us were getting out of the door on time - so practise getting herself ready and walking the route.

It is a hard age. Love bombing would be something I'd try and make sure expectations on her are clear - don't expect her to know- have count down to events in 10 minutes this will happen - 5 minutes - now were doing this expect a lot of repetition and allow a lot of time to get things done and make sure your expecations are realistic.

Mine did have a lot of long baths and early bedtimes that age- as I had days I struggled especially at end of a longday and they were better in the bath winding down and having long bedtime stories.

It does sound like what you need most is some RL support - so keep on at HV.

I would consider getting some help at home or even a nanny. I get that DH has responsibilities but your situation is dire and unfair on you. You need a massive breather or you will fold. Insist on paid help and get out of the house and away from your domestic situation so you can decompress. Get a job to pay for the nanny if need be. Your MH depends on it.

Does your 4 year old have any friends at nursery? Could you arrange a socially distanced play date/meet up in the park with another child? Your 4 year old will have someone to play with, and you will have another adult to chat to. Take drinks and snacks maybe? It could be more positive if she is playing with another child and may not run off.
And lots and lots of positive praise for your 4 year old where you can. Even something little. Can you have an hour with her reading or playing a game when the 2 year old naps?

@Lillygolightly that is a lovely reassuring message for op 🌻

Even if everyone is wrong and it’s not just sibling jealousy, and tricky 4-year-old age-appropriate behaviour, a diagnosis of something will still only mean your own parenting behaviour and strategies need to change to manage things better. The diagnosis won’t fix anything, but the behaviour management strategies will

This, I am afraid. I have brought up one child with MH issues which often translated into tricky behaviour. It took a long time to get her diagnosed, but even then the diagnosis didn't result in a short medical treatment that made the problem go away. The work still had to be done on a daily basis, not by medical professionals but by her parents. I also needed counselling on the way. It was helpful, but at the end of the day I still had to do the work.

You've had lots of helpful advice on this thread, OP. If you structure it up, you might end up with a checklist like this:

build a more positive general relationship (lots of brilliant advice up-thread)

set her up to succeed- by giving her little things she can do and praising her when she does them right

see if you can avoid triggers- not by letting her do exactly as she wants, but by preparing her and distracting her and making it easier for her to do the right thing without conflict

accept that sometimes conflict will happen and that is not a failing on the part of either of you- have a plan for how you will handle it when it does

think through different scenarios in advance- how bad is x behaviour and what kind of punishment/what level of anger does it deserve? don't wing it- chances are, your reaction will end up being more about you than about her

distract yourself when you feel your anger is building up (I used to put on the kettle or out the radio on or even burst into song)

get your husband to understand that he must take a more active part in parenting and that you must sit down together and plan this

try to find something in your life that isn't about the children, something that makes you happy or engages your interest, something that you can use as your own mental escape place

OP, how was your childhood? How did your parents treat you? Do you find yourself mirroring how your parents were or do you try and do things differently to them? *Read this book Philippa Perry. With the PTSD, I’d say you have some things you need help with and will probably find that when those are dealt with you’ll have more patience and understanding so will be able to deal with your daughter in a more balanced way. From the brief details you’ve given, it sounds like she’s learning that shouting and conflict are how to communicate. That can be un-learnt but it will take time and work. I wouldn’t deal with her behaviour to begin with as that is the result, but it’s being caused by something and it’s the “something” that needs to be sorted out. This website may have some good ideas to help Aha.

What does she eat?

DD1 reacted to a common orange food colouring - she'd bounce of the walls - she out grown it now but it did take a while to figure out and family including DH scoff at the idea untill they saw it a few times.

Other thing make sure you get a rest when DH is around at weekends - I found that hard to do but even a sleep in or afternoon nap helped.

@Noodlepopps. Are you a SAHM? How many hours does your DD1 go to nursery a week? Does DD2 go to nursery at all? Do you get any time to yourself at all?

Second posters above saying that you really need to start making your DD feel loved now, otherwise there will be long-term consequences.

If I were in your shoes, I would start by doing the following:

• Get out of the house every day when you have them - park and playground trips, long walks, plan some outings. Children always play up more if they haven't had enough exercise so make sure you're tiring the two of them out so they're happy just to sit and potter nicely at home.
• See friends more - this will improve your mental health and your DD will probably appreciate the input from outside adults who aren't openly in conflict with her.
• Try to have time just with DD1 when your DH is home - take her to the park by herself or for an ice-cream. Do 'grown-up stuff' that DD2 is too little to do, like a nice drink or lunch in a cafe. Ask her about nursery, her life, what she likes, how she is feeling. Try to understand her as a person, not just an annoying little creature who won't do as she's told and gets on your nerves.
• Make life more fun - let the kids lie in your bed at the weekend and have 'breakfast in bed' and cartoons for fun, make pancakes or pizza with them, play silly games, put photos of them doing nice things in cardboard frames and let them decorate them. Let DD1 choose some activities she'd really like to do with you and her little sister and plan some for every day you have them. Let her choose what you do at the weekend sometimes.
• Don't let bad behaviour spoil things, instead correct and move on - ignore low level bad behaviour such as bossiness or cheekiness, beyond 'DD1, that's not nice" or "DD1, let DD2 play with that". If she throws things, hits her sister or does something you can't ignore, ask her to apologise and, if she doesn't, send her out of the room for a few minutes. Then remind her that what she did is not nice and kind and ask her to try to remember not to do it again because it spoils a nice time. It sounds like a lot of her behaviour is a response to your constant disapproval or a plea for love, so if you give love and approval, things should start to get a lot better.
• Stop shouting at her - discipline calmly. If you lose your temper and end up shouting and saying nasty things, apologise to her. Say "It was wrong of you to do X, but Mummy was wrong to shout at you like that so Mummy is sorry. Mummy loves you very much."

Acknowledging feelings is also helpful - articulating to your daughter that you understand what she is upset about - letting her know it is ok for her to be angry. that you will listen to her if she wants to talk to you.

But it also sounds like you feel very isolated. Been there, still am quite there really. Especially in lockdown. It drives you mad. It does. I know that I can really collapse emotionally and mentally if I am not getting enough social interaction.

You obviously have some spare money, so get a good babysitter and go out once a week and do something for yourself. Give yourself some time to yourself. Pay for another babysitter slot and spend that time doing something fun with DD1. Make sure that DD1 has time on her own talking to her dad on Skype at least a couple of times a week. He can read her a story or play a game.

That all sounds v hard. I don’t remember the details but I know that I found my relationship with my daughter v hard when she was 4. Everything seemed to become an argument and I also worried we were building a terrible relationship. I hadn’t read any parenting books before that point, but feeling that I was becoming too shouty did prompt me to read ‘how to talk so kids will listen and to listen so that kids will talk’ which helped. And as you mention, because she is a sensible kid and my eldest, I realised that I was often expecting too much of her. Also identifying which of her behaviours in particular tipped me into anger, as we all have our bugbears, helped manage my response too, as it wasn’t always proportionate. The good news is, we got through it and now it is in the parenting mists of time only a few years later, so I hope you get through it too.

to be honest it sounds like she may be jealous of the little one, She knows you dislike her, she knows you prefer the younger one.

This needs to change otherwise it will only get worse.

Does she get 1 on 1 time with you? does your 2 year old get 1 on 1 time?

It will take some time but it needs to be done. this isnt about punishing bad behaviour but more about rewarding good behaviour and showing her the attention she is obviously crying out for.

Parenting with PTSD is really hard at times. Children can be really triggering. They don't stop when you say no for example. Know you are not alone. There are quite a lot of resources available for example this www.amazon.co.uk/Parenting-PTSD-impact-childhood-parenting-ebook/dp/B076593HC1

It's can be really hard to get the right support; I'm still fighting to treatment for CPTSD but it varies depending on where you are in the country. The first step is a diagnosis. NICE guidance recommends certain treatments (such as EMDR or trauma focused CBT). Don't let them fob you off. Good luck

I think it's horrible to say you don't like her, but try positive reinforcement, all kids can be dislikable at times, well everyone can really. 10 minutes a day spend time doing something you both enjoy, walking to the park, playing a game in the garden, playing with any pets if you have them. Anything to make you have positive connotations with her. It'll get easier OP

I've been there, OP. It's desperately hard. Like yours, my DD was a saint at nursery/school, but vile to siblings and parents. I had fantasies of dropping her outside social services office and driving off - and worse things than that. One thing that helped for me was at bedtime, talking about some positive things that my DD did in the day (however difficult they were to think of). Every night at bedtime, whatever the rubbish that has gone down that day, positives only. It helped her to see herself in a positive light and know that I saw the good things in her. She's mostly pretty fabulous now she's an adult, and we have a pretty good relationship. It'll get easier as she grows. But she MUST see your love for her.

@Noodlepopps

To clarify without 'outing' myself, my husband runs 3 companies, so he is self employed. He travels to Europe a lot for work. He isn't in a position to take a step back or spend more time at home at the moment but it's something that will hopefully happens in the next year or 2.

I have posted my concerns in parenting groups a few times but have always been assured that everything I'm saying is 'normal' hence why I have posted here, because I know I will get actual advice instead of just platitudes and reassurance.

Two years time is too late op.

Does he realise how can't you are coping? What is HIS suggestion?