I don't like my daughter

[Noodlepopps]

Ok, so posting here for traffic. I have 2 daughters, aged 2 and 4. I adore my 2 yr old and I strongly dislike my 4 yr old. She's awful to me, never listens, hits me, throws things, cries and screams constantly, pushes her sister over, she's even told me she wants me to die so I never come back. I am inconsistent with how I deal with her, I've tried ignoring her, being calm, holding her, naughty step, sending her to bed, taking toys away. But a lot of the time I end up shouting at her, which I know is wrong but I get to the point of frustration that I can't take it anymore. I would never hurt her. I've said some horrible things to her though and I go to bed and cry my eyes out because I know I'm ruining my future relationship with her and I think things are verging on verbal abuse. I've spoken to my HV, she comes out to see us every few weeks but she just says I'm 'doing a good job' and I need to focus on myself a bit more. My husband works away and he comes home every few weeks for a week at a time. I'm getting to the point where I don't think I want my 4 yr old anymore, as awful as that sounds. I can't cope with her behaviour, I can't cope with my emotions (I have possible, undiagnosed PTSD). I don't know what to do. Nobody knows how I feel or how difficult things are apart from my husband who is amazing, but can't be here all the time. If anyone has any advice, I would be so grateful.

I disagree that this is just classic attention seeking. The extreme changes in behaviour, that she’s well behaved at nursery but takes it out on you at home suggest to me she is masking at nursery and the mask drops at home. Have you considered if she might be on the Autistic spectrum? Is she more upset when you change plans? Or when requests come as instructions e.g. Go and put your shoes on!. I’m wondering if some of this behaviour is demand avoidance.

I have ASD. I wasn’t diagnosed til I was an adult. Please, please, whatever you do don’t tell her you don’t like her. My Mum did this to me, she actually said There were times when I didn’t like you. I always loved you but I didn’t like you. It’s an incredibly damaging thing to hear from a parent. Far better to say I love you but I don’t like your behaviour. Behaviours can be changed - but you need to facilitate this. I highly recommend the book The explosive child by Ross Greene. It will help you look at the challenging behaviour as communication and see how you can help to change things so it’s better for both of you.

Firstly my DD was a nightmare from around 3.5 to 5. She has really improved since turning five. She didn't do what you little one is doing. She was a pain with bed time. She wouldn't share when kids came around. She went through a stage where she lost her mind if I spoke to other children or helped them. She also wouldn't let me hold babies without being really unkind. She would torment her friend on walks. She would go mad if he touched my pushchair.

I linked it all to the younger sibling. There are just under three years between mine. It's hard when you have one that's at a cuddly age and one that's a little older. I honestly think they can't express how they feel. They see your feeding and holding this new baby. They see you pushing their pushchair. They see you holding their hands and feeding them. They see how you seem to invest more in this you get sibling and they think I want that! But they can't express it. So they react with angry words and actions. The reality is your daughter loves you and is probably feeling emotional and struggling to express what she wants.

I know it's not always possible. But consider the following.

Give her a random hug. Sit her on your knees and say what shall we watch together. Try and sit for half an hour with her and look at books. Stroke her hair. Call her a clever girl. Ask if what she likes to watch. Put nursery rhymes on and sing with her and do the actions with her. Make her laugh. Make some cornflake cakes with her and ask someone to keep the younger one out the way. Tell her you love making cakes with her. Give a cake to the younger one and say how clever us your big sister.

Take her for the occasional walk alone. Hold her hand. Look for butterfly's. Talk about the weather. Let her Jump in puddles. Collect bugs. Collect blackberry's. Take her to a park. Take her for a bike ride. Let her push her doll.

Read her a story at bedtime and let that be another moment between you too.

I find that they really do need your time when there is a younger sibling. I think they can get anxious and it can last ages with a new baby. Plus four is still an emotional age.

Don't say you don't like her. You do. You love her. You like her . You just don't know how to handle her behaviour. Neither did I believe me it was hard. Now I invest in trusty one to one with both kids and lots of time together too. My five year old loves it when we just walk and leave the toddler with daddy for half an hour.

It might not be this. But she's acting out because inside she's unsettled. Unless of course she could have autism/ADHD or asd. But at this stage I would focus on more positivity for you both. Also sending you a hug because I've been here and it does get better x

Does your husband know what you are doing to your child?
What would you do if HE was doing it to her?
I think you’ve actually been incredibly brave to intimate that you’re abusing her.

BUT I’m not sure that you realise how serious your situation is. I’m not sure if you’ve exaggerated how you are behaving towards her. I’m not sure if you are under reporting it.
I’m not trying to make you feel worse. But platitudes and assurances that this is all perfectly normal are NOT helpful. Because what you describe is NOT normal. You could have 200 people posting on this thread to tell you that they’ve lost their shit with a 4 year old pushing boundaries. That will NOT help you or your child.

Again, I hope this is the first step in you and your family getting the professional help that you need.

@Nanny0gg both my parents have passed away and my husbands parents don't want to help out at all. I have a couple of friends but I do struggle to get out much. I think we've struggled mostly since DD2 came along. Everyone keeps telling me it's normal 3/4 yr old behaviour, but I don't think it is and I feel like I'm exasperating the situation. I need to go back to the GP, but she keeps telling me that a referral will take a long time. I need to look into doing it privately.

Sorry for typos I was multi tasking x

@dominicgoings if you read the OP's post you will see she has said that she 'ends up shouting a lot of the time' - this is the reality. The rest reads as the internal thoughts and opinions of the OP. To me it reads as the OP is being super harsh on herself. It certainly does not warrant someone stepping in and putting in place measures to protect the child.

The OP has identified and acknowledged there's a better way. She needs help and support in putting that better way into practice. Her post if the first step in this journey. Be kind.

Obv your husband quitting isn't the answer, bit does he know how bad it is?
Ignoring her, being calm, holding her, naughty step, sending her to bed, taking toys away, shouting at her, I've said some horrible things to her though and you know this is at best borderline verbal abuse. Does he understand that?

How are things when he's home? O really think he should have been looking at changing jobs at least a year ago if this only started once her sister came. He shouldn't get to make there there blouses for a week then swan off and leave you and your 4 to to it!

I actually agree with Dominicgoings to a certain extent OP.. though would not have posted quite so harshly. However this is serious. This is the beginning of the sort of posts you read on the stately home thread. This isn't a quick fix issue that a spot of counselling will cure . It is going to take a lot of hard work from you for which you will need practical and emotional support.. your husband NEEDS to be available everyday to support HIS wife and HIS child.

Of course things will change if he stops this current work . At least start exploring other options because your child having one super stressed and verging on verbally abusive mother and a largely absent father is going to have lifelong consequences for your child .

Flippant replies towards this suggestion are not the way to be looking at this issue nor realising the severity of the problem.

Your husband changing jobs does not mean you becoming homeless.
However - you left to deal with this issue on your own - is not worth however much he earns. ! If financial sacrifices have to be made for our children's physical or mental health- then that's what we do as parents.. that includes fathers !
Can he apply to his existing employer to not work away ? (obviously I don't know the nature of the work so accept this may not be possible)

Can you get a job and swap roles ?
Could you both work part time ?

Whatever happens. Something has to change to protect your little girl whilst you get the help you need.. that protection should be the first priority of her father.

I also recommend watching Jo Frost aka Supernanny - lots of episodes free on YouTube. She’s such a warm, kind, sensible person full of great advice. She advocates positive parenting and has transformed so many families. Good luck with making the changes you need to transform your family life, your little girl needs you 💐

Love bomb her. Fake it till you make it. Give her special things that only she's allowed to do because she's "a big girl and her sister is too young".

OP, children 'mirror' our behaviour to a large extent. In order to get her to behave more positively, you need to be positive with her. You need to change your perspective on her. Yes, she is being challenging with you at the moment, but she's clearly a lovely little girl if nursery have no issues with her.

My own DS can be wilful, boisterous, occasionally aggressive with DH and me (hair-pulling, pushing us). I find 'dislike the behaviour, not the child' quite a good motto. So we do stern telling offs, time-outs etc. but also lots of hugs and boisterous play. At the risk of bringing up an entitled brat, I'm always hugging him and telling him how much I like cuddling him and how wonderful he is and that he's my favourite boy in the whole world .

What are the five things you like best about your DD, if you had to make a list? Is she energetic, adventurous, helpful in nursery, affectionate with her little sister (even if there's the occasional moment), creative, imaginative, funny? You need to create a picture of all her positive attributes in your mind and accept that that's who your daughter is - a lovely, wonderful child. The bad behaviour isn't part of her personality, but instead an age-appropriate response to feelings of unhappiness and lack of control over most aspects of her life, including you withdrawing affection from her (which must leave her bewildered).

But platitudes and assurances that this is all perfectly normal are NOT helpful
Actually what I have seen on this thread is people offering practical advice, so not sure why you felt the need to take a 'brave' stand against the platitudes.

@smallestleaf - I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The OP is looking for ‘Reassurance that others have experienced similar is welcome though’ - ie, please normalise what I’m doing, which many posters have unfortunately done. I am quite confident if I posted that my partner verbally abuses my child but says it’s ok cause ‘we’ve all been there’ I’d have my arse handed to me. This little girl has two parents - and if one of them is placing them at risk (physical or emotional) the other parent 1) deserves to know what is going on, and 2) to have the opportunity to intervene.

@Dominicgoings

Does your husband know what you are doing to your child? What would you do if HE was doing it to her? I think you’ve actually been incredibly brave to intimate that you’re abusing her.

BUT I’m not sure that you realise how serious your situation is. I’m not sure if you’ve exaggerated how you are behaving towards her. I’m not sure if you are under reporting it.
I’m not trying to make you feel worse. But platitudes and assurances that this is all perfectly normal are NOT helpful. Because what you describe is NOT normal. You could have 200 people posting on this thread to tell you that they’ve lost their shit with a 4 year old pushing boundaries. That will NOT help you or your child.

Again, I hope this is the first step in you and your family getting the professional help that you need.

No-one's saying it's normal.

Most are giving helpful advice not just telling her how awful she is. She knows it's not right and she's asking for help in how to fix it.
She's already asked her GP and HV and they've been no use.

All you've suggested is getting her husband home. That's not the answer. He can't fix it overnight.

And I think you're doing a grand job of making her feel worse actually.

Oh you’re exactly like my mum. This is what she did to me. 39 years later she all of a sudden wants to be super mum/gran and is desperate for that close mother daughter relationship with me (like she has with my younger sister). But to me it’s now too late and I have no interest. If you don’t try to fix this now you have no idea of the damage you will do. I genuinely have no idea what it feels like to be loved by a parent, it’s like I’m dead inside. And as for my golden child sister- she’s now as messed up by it all as I am.

[quote Noodlepopps]@Nanny0gg both my parents have passed away and my husbands parents don't want to help out at all. I have a couple of friends but I do struggle to get out much. I think we've struggled mostly since DD2 came along. Everyone keeps telling me it's normal 3/4 yr old behaviour, but I don't think it is and I feel like I'm exasperating the situation. I need to go back to the GP, but she keeps telling me that a referral will take a long time. I need to look into doing it privately. [/quote]
Even if everyone is wrong and it’s not just sibling jealousy, and tricky 4-year-old age-appropriate behaviour, a diagnosis of something will still only mean your own parenting behaviour and strategies need to change to manage things better. The diagnosis won’t fix anything, but the behaviour management strategies will. Like positive praising the fuck out of everything, looking for the good, diffusing tension with humour, letting small stuff slide if bigger stuff is more important and analysing your own reactions and trigger moments.

I would definitely push for any support you can get from anywhere. Referrals: assessments for autism/adhd/learning/behaviour for your daughter. Mental health for you. Find out about any counselling or support you can access (some services have gone online, through phone or zoom). Tell your husband your struggling and get his support as much as possible. Reach out to extended family, friends. Try to find time for yourself. Nursery? Childminder? Babysitter? Cleaner even? Anything that will let some of the pressure off.

You have had a moment of clarity and realised that your shouting is bordering on or has become emotionally abusive. This is the time to get help. The people who turn situations like this around are those who first can be honest with themselves (which you have on this thread!) and then to use that as the opportunity for change. It's not enough just to have the moment of self awareness, and sometimes things have got beyond just us. We need the help of others. We are out of our depth, the situation has become unmanageable. Ask for help, then ask again, then ask again. You deserve to be happy, so do your kids. You matter, they matter, don't take no for an answer. Fixing this at this stage is much easier than letting it get worse. As they say "nip it in the bud"

@RichTwoTurkeyFriend

I don't see how the OP can in anyway be seen as wanting to normalise what is happening. OP says no-one understands how bad things are, she asks for advice, she says she knows she is ruining her future relationship with her child and that what she says is bordering on verbal abuse.

That sounds like someone who knows things have gone beyond normal and knows she needs help and is looking for it after the statutory agencies have failed her.

@smallestleaf well I certainly read that as the OP seeking to be reassured others had done this. If I have misread that - then for that I apologise.
However, even if I did misread it, the army of ‘we’ve been theres’ in this thread, IS normalising some very concerning behaviour.

[quote RichTwoTurkeyFriend]@smallestleaf - I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The OP is looking for ‘Reassurance that others have experienced similar is welcome though’ - ie, please normalise what I’m doing, which many posters have unfortunately done. I am quite confident if I posted that my partner verbally abuses my child but says it’s ok cause ‘we’ve all been there’ I’d have my arse handed to me. This little girl has two parents - and if one of them is placing them at risk (physical or emotional) the other parent 1) deserves to know what is going on, and 2) to have the opportunity to intervene.[/quote]
Thankyou Richturkeys for articulating my thoughts more clearly than I have done and apologies to the OP if I have appeared abrupt.
As a Stately Homes survivor, a thread like this hits extremely hard and whilst I know it’s not fair to project my own experiences, I often wonder how different my life would have been if someone had intervened earlier.

It's really hard with a partner that works away, I empathise . DH is away Monday to Friday every week and then at times away for months. Are you getting a proper break when he is back? I don't mean an hour here or there, but actual time to yourself? Do you think at least some of her behaviour is because he is away? DD was the same, it was only when she was a few years older that she could articulate that she didn't understand why daddy kept coming home and then going again, even though I had tried to follow the 'guidance' on how to deal with it, she said she wondered if it was because she had been bad that he went away (we never alluded to this of course). Although by his pattern it doesn't sound like he is forces, if there are any military families close to you or online, it might be a nice network of support. A few who come to the groups etc their partners work on the rigs etc and they have been welcomed with open arms; it's good to have support of those who know what you're going through re solo parenting but with a partner. It's good you speak with your HV, does she know exactly how you are feeling?

And I would be interested to know what exactly has been said the the health visitor. Because if Op has said ‘I’m verbally abusing my child and I don’t like her’ and the HV has ignored this then absolutely, they are failing the OP. But what has actually been spoken about in these visits?

So sorry you are going through this OP

I didn’t realise that I had PND with my eldest until my second came along. I’d had a really emotional time during my pregnancy with DC1, my relationship at the time with DP was rocky and I was just in survival mode. When DC1 was finally born, the big rush of overwhelming love that everyone bangs on about didn’t come and I just felt numb. Over time things evened out and settled and life carried on and 4 years later I was pregnant with DC2.

Pregnancy with DC2 was opposite to the time I had with DC1. Things were going well, we were settled having moved to a lovely new house, DP had a promotion, DC1 had started school and doing well. When DC2 was born, I had a great labour and water birth that was amazing and this time I DID feel that huge rush of love.

Once back at home with baby DC2 and feeling in the lovely newborn bubble I suddenly felt like their was a gulf between DC1 and I. It’s like I suddenly realised what I had been missing and it made me feel terribly and so guilty. As a child I always felt my younger sibling was favoured and it hurt, there was no way I wanted to do that to my own children.

It was hard at first, but I put lots of extra effort in to DC1, lots of cuddles for no reason at all, gave lots of little jobs that meant I could praise her when she did well (she was 5 at the time.) so she fetched baby wipes, helped carry things around the house for me, watch her little sister for me while I went to the loo. All really small things but those things were helpful to me, made it easy to praise her, ensured she felt involved and grown up and not pushed out by her younger sibling. Every time she did something well or helpful I gave her a little hug, kiss or squeeze and thanked her for helping mummy. I was surprised at how much my feelings for her had changed and seeing how she flourished with all the extra praise and affection she was getting. I’ll be totally honest and say that at first it was really hard, felt awkward and I had to make myself do it. Over time though it just got easier and soon became second nature.

DC1 is 15 now and we have a great relationship and I’m so glad I made the effort back then because it was so very much worth it for what we have now.

I felt like a horrible person and a horrible mother, but I was neither of those things and neither are you. Sometimes the circumstances under which we are pregnant and have a child vary massively between children and sometimes this means it affects how we feel and how we parent. You love both your DC, so much so that you are worrying and posting about your relationship with DC1. You care enough about it to post about it, so say to me the care and love for her, it’s just hard. It won’t always be easy but your DD2 is only young, you’ve got plenty of time to change things for the better.

I second the suggestion of the Phillips Perry book, called something like they book you wish your parents had read ...etc’. It may help you see how your daughters behaviour is hooking right into some unresolved stuff from your own past. It’s not a magic spell but insight does help. Also DEFINITELY get some therapy support-do research and explain exactly what is happening-this isn’t the job for ‘general counselling’ but someone with experience of working with childhood issues AND trauma.
Finally, in the meantime, fake it Til you make it, in terms of ‘catch her being good’ and praise her and minimise the bad. You are aware of what you are feeling and doing and that’s the first, major step to protecting he and protecting your relationship. Good luck.

OP, my heart goes out to you. You're having such a tough time and I recognise some of those feelings.

I hope you can take some time for self care. You need to seek help for your PTSD. Maybe therapy, maybe EMDR, maybe even some mindfulness sessions or CBT. It sounds to me like a hell of a lot to deal with - two small chlidren and nobody to help out. Look into childminders. Look into nurseries.Your first call is compassion for yourself; you can't parent as well as you'd want to if you're not first taking care of yourself. So I would start there.

As for your relationship with your daughter - I hugely recommend this book:

www.amazon.co.uk/Calm-Parents-Happy-Kids-Stress-free/dp/0091955203?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

I had a very difficult phase with my DS when he was about that age (and had a newish sibling). It was hellish, and I was at my wit's end. I followed the instructions in that book and I think I'm not exaggerating to say that it save our relationship and my sanity. It was hard work, but it worked. My son (now 10) and I now have a fantastic relationship - I understand far better how to deal with his reactions (and my own). He's like a different child - still himself, of course, but like a weight has been lifted off him. The basis of the book is active listening, connecting with your child, acknowledging and helping them work through their emotions. Boundaries are part of that, compassion is probably the larger part.

The book's author also has a fab website with lots and lots of great (evidence-based) advice. These articles might be useful:

www.ahaparenting.com/blog/Centered_in_Your_Self_Rather_Than_Self_Centered

www.ahaparenting.com/ask-the-doctor-1/curing-sibling-rivalry-with-angry-four-year-old

www.ahaparenting.com/ask-the-doctor-1/aggressive-tantrums

Behaviour is a child's way of communicating. Your DD is trying her best to let you know she's unhappy. She doesn't have the skills yet to manage her emotions, or to know how to say things she might be worried about (she might feel very strongly about her new sibling, for example, but worry that she's 'bad' for feeling that way).

Things will improve, OP. Your children are very young. It gets easier, steadily, as they get older. And there's lots you can do to help. Take heart. .