Help explain non-gendered clothes to DM & MIL?

[NewbieMumma]

Please can someone help me and DH formulate a neat phrase to explain to my mother and my MIL why my DH and I do not want gendered gifts and clothes for our new baby? We don't know the gender yet (due in a couple of days) and we have bought gender neutral baby grows and things. We want to maintain this once the baby is here, and not dress them in overtly blue dinosaurs or pink hearts, and slogans etc. This is all in line with our views and how we try to carry out our roles at home. Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live.

As generous as it is of the GPs to want to buy the baby clothes, we tried to casually say "nothing too gendered please" mainly so that it wasn't a waste of their money. However we have been met with constant resistance and questions. Eg "surely once you know the sex you'll be buying blue / pink"? "What if they are a girly girl" etc etc, "what is he loves trucks"? "It's so sad / cruel" etc!

I find it so time consuming to explain why I don't want to dress my child in "daddy's little princess" type stuff which only promotes gender role stereotypes in a tiny child who has no inclination towards any of this and no knowledge of patriarchy at first. I know there's only so much we can do and it won't be long before we start to see our child influenced by the patriarchal society is is immersed in, but I think it's reasonable for us to do what we can to balance the scales a little bit whilst the child is in their home environment, through books, toys, clothes, critical thinking and choice of language etc etc.

My mother and MIL just can't get it and say that we will struggle as the shops only sell girls clothes and boys clothes. DH answers his mum's comments with sensible rational reasons why our choice makes sense and tries to get her head around the concept, but she keeps on asking, or texting us photos of "cute" clothes, eg pink tutu dresses. We are also choosing not to dress the baby in "outfits" (dresses, jeans etc) mainly due to simplicity, and she's also questioning that alongside.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about something quick we can say that explains our pov and helps us make our point? Or do we just give up trying to explain?

I know I'm very probably way over thinking (tired and hormonal) and should just say a firm "that's our choice", but it irks me that they are trying to cajole us and that at this rate we will be gifted a bunch of stuff we don't want to give to our baby.

And when they're over 2 you put them in multipacks of plain t-shirts/joggers/leggings.

Again, it will reliably be the cheapest option.

OP isn't being 'insufferable' she's come here asking for ideas on how to communicate her point of view so that the parents understand, I think that's fine.
The reason it is difficult to buy gender neutral clothing is because it's cheap and easy for mass production, so consumer demand is being shaped that way.
I agree this doesn't need to cause family rifts, but it's a perfectly reasonable stance to want to take in the early years, when it IS down to the parents how they dress their children.
Stick to your guns OP!

I'd say "we like X style" and be polite and thankful for gifts. But just don't dress the baby in them all the time and people soon get the message because they know the clothes won't be worn.

If it's from an elderly person you don't see much, dress the baby in it and take a pic, and send to them of course but day to day, just them in what you want and eventually it's clear.

FWIW I do think that gendered clothes plus gendered toys can and do have effects on kids. We have always had a mix of toys which is still successful but time will tell. Once they're at nursery and / or old enough to take it in, it's the influence of what their friends do (ie the parents) and that's where the issues with "boys do X" and so on really begin. If they like a mix of stuff beforehand then this can help with that, I've found.

My dd had an eclectic wardrobe. At less than 18 months she decided pink was the way to go and dressed herself in an array of unmatching pinks.

You can do as you choose. But tbh I think it’s pointless and a bit controlling to tell your families they cannot give x gift and how to spend their money because of your choices. They are giving to their GC, not you. You decide whether or not to put you ds / dd it.

The reason the supermarkets sell unisex baby clothes is people buy baby clothes when they don't know the sex of the baby, so neutral is a good option. Later on, gender neutral clothing is very hard to get hold of at the cheaper end of the market. I've done it twice, I know!

I was stunned at how much pink stuff I was given after DD1 was born. It was horrific. A LOT of it got sent to the charity shop with labels still attached. I also bought quite a lot of boy clothes- jeans/dungarees/general not pink stuff, and mixed it with the less offensive girly stuff that I did keep.

And ignore the naysayers on here- I've got 3 girls, all of whom love trains and Lego and barbies and princesses and dinosaurs and sticks and sparkles. And they've all been through phases of making guns out of anything they could find (gun toys is about the one thing we don't have). And they need to be run ragged if we're to get any peace, and also love crafting away. We have clothes with princesses and clothes with tractors.

They're happy and confident, love being girls and also have strong senses of their own identities and not needing to gender conform if they want to do "boy" things. They love playing princesses but they're usually firece warrior princesses in their games, while wearing sparkly outfits. I might be just a little bit proud of them

Sorry, hang about ... so the supermarkets don't sell unisex clothes, but also do?

Forgive me, but I suspect either 1) things have changed since you did it twice or 2) you didn't actually want cheap, unisex clothes.

It's a piece of piss so long as you're not fussed about just buying what you like, cheaply.

I admit, if you want a big label saying THIS IS UNISEX and can't buy a plain green t-shirt without it, you will struggle. Otherwise, not.

Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live

Actually this is so condescending. They didn't have a 'choice' it was what a patriarchal society imposed on most women of their generation. They can't help that indoctrination, so your attitude to their attitudes should be less judgemental.

By all means try to explain your views, but they may not understand how you feel.

Just return the clothes if possible, charity shop them, and tell the. You don't need any more you have drawers full.

Re toys. If they buy overtly gendered toys, you just buy less gendered toys, or those of the opposite gender. Ds loved dolls and buggies and cars.

Believe me, after a year and/or another child, you really won't give a toss what they wear provided it's clean.

Guaranteed if they bought your dd dinosaur dungarees or whatever you'd be over the moon.......likewise if they bought a ds a floral babygro or whatever.

My advice is to stop being such a try hard, let them buy what they want. Dress them in the outfits they bought when you meet up or put them in it, snap a few pics and post them to granny and grandad. Because that's a kind thing to do and enjoy your baby.

I honestly don't get all this naval gazing and agonizing over things that honestly don't matter and can cause a lot of hurt towards other, family members.

As an example, my dd wore all sorts when she was born (2 older brothers).

When she was about 2-3 she got into dressing up in a big way. By 3 it was always various princesses, and she started refusing to wear ordinary clothes that weren't pink. By 4 she was saying how she hated her room (green) and didn't want to spend time in there.

They weren't battles I wanted to fight, so she got the princess dress-up clothes, pink clothes and pink bedroom. Her choice. It is only now she's heading into secondary that she's coming out the other side.

I think it would have done more harm than good to refuse her those things. Most of her toys were hand-me-ons so not much pink there, though she would have loved it and we had plenty of trains and trucks and balls and what-not.

So my point is you have no idea what they will be in to.

OP, in case it's helpful:

Most of DD's clothes are nutmeg at Morrisons, Tu at Sainsbury's, and H&M.

H&M does good value t-shirts in their organic cotton range, which last well. I get DD packs of their plain t-shirts regularly - very cheap, and they do packs of mixed colours or stripes and colours. Likewise leggings.

They do also have masses of tat in store so when your child is older they will gravitate to that and if it bugs you, shop online.

Tu is absolutely bloody brilliant to about age 3. Some of it is gendered but much isn't, and the colours and prints are cheerful and fun.

If your mum and MIL want to spend more, Jojo usually has animal-print stuff that isn't gendered. Watch out for their wellies - they're shit.

@Sweetmotherofallthatisholyabov

I think you need to accept that gender stereotypes and roles already deeply entrenched in society and instead of trying to battle society at large you can teach your child that those stereotypes aren't rigid. It's not going to be just clothes it's language There's so much. Instead make sure you're introducing them to a variety of toys and colours and books and movies etc.

Thanks. This is what I said in my OP already though. The clothes are just one issue the GP are focussing on a lot at the moment.

People will learn your style once baby is here too. I have a friend who dresses children in very classic clothes, mainly blue, white and navy. I would never buy a funky printed item for her children as it is so clear what she likes. (Usually stick to jammies and a toy). Hopefully DM and MIL will pick it up from how you dress baby too. Otherwise polite thank you and exchange gift or send a photo for gran then pass it on to friend or charity.

I really don’t understand this?

It’s a bit hypocritical?

You want non gendered clothes but at the same time are creating illusions that pink is for girls and blue is for boys.

No clothes are for any gender really, I think you’re being a bit precious.

Can you send them links to types of clothes you like and where they can buy them from? . I totally agree with babies being in comfy gros, its crazy putting a baby in jeans or a frilly dress but this is what happens in a consumerist society. Unfortunatly re the gender neutral, you might find some resistance to this once your toddler can express their preferences, mine likes pink and sparkly so sometimes need to relent to let them have some say in their clothing choices, wellies mittens and a tutu are also very cute

Having said all my points above OP.. you may also just want to grin and bear it. I got myself in a right tizzy before my daughter was born because my MIL wanted to buy her a pink flowery snow suit from a charity shop. I got twisted up trying to not offend but being bitterly against gendered clothing and ended up sounding really PFB by going on about not wanting second hand clothes in case they were full of smoke. It irritated my MIL and caused some awkwardness.

In reality we have been given lots of pink things and I have realised the polite thing to do is smile, say thank you, take a photo of them in it and then donate to charity if you really don't want them to wear it, or put it to the back of the drawer and only dress the baby in it when the person may be visiting. And they will grow out of it soon enough anyway.

I still say that if you want to try and get your views across to them, show them the video I posted above. I am not sure if the entire episode of that programme is still on Iplayer but it was really interesting.

You can't really control what people buy. If they ask, say "we prefer plain white stuff" or whatever. If they give you stuff you don't like, take a photo of them wearing it and then just re-donate. The first few months, I was so exhausted, my baby may have been wearing a potato sack for all I cared (and I am very very bothered in general about gender nonsense.)

For what it's worth, if they were born in the 50s, they probably had more gender neutral clothes for their babies than we do now so don't blame it on their age, eh.

sometimes I've had stuff that's not my taste but it's a gift so I put the kids in it. You don't have to try so hard to be different you know, just go with the flow, you're thinking too much about CLOTHES to keep your child warm!

@Billyjoearmstrong

"What if they are a girly girl" etc etc, "what is he loves trucks"?

While I totally understand, they do have a point with this.

I’ve had a boy and a girl and wow, have they both been totally into the stereotypes regardless of how they have been brought up.

I’m not ‘girly’ at all yet I’ve had a six year old who ever since a small toddler loves to dress in pink, loves princesses etc. It makes me feel slightly sick inside but it’s what she likes.

My son was always into anything with wheels from a young age, always wanted bob the builder clothes from a toddler.

This despite me not being into gendered roles and play etc.

You’ll find your child just likes what they like.

Or they might be the total opposite! My DD's only interest in clothes is that they're comfy and in dark colours that don't show the dirt, whereas her brother's favourite colour is pink, and he loves a bit of sparkle and an excuse to "dress up smart"!

OP, I admire your intentions but you may be fighting a bit of a losing battle on this one - and it really won't be long before the LO has their own ideas on what they want to wear. Best I can suggest is you direct them to clothing retailers that sell the sort of thing you do like - "Oh, Boden (or wherever!) has some lovely things at the moment!" - and hope for the best b

I'm assuming this is your first child? I had similar ideas. It was completely out of the window by the age of 1, if not before. My daughter has had a love of pink and all things pink, sparkly and "girly" since the age of 1 without any influence from persons at home.

@NewbieMumma, they're focussing on the clothes (and so are you) because the baby isn't here.

They probably will get less focussed when she is here. But also - and excuse me for saying - it might be that both you and they are subconsciously trying to stake out territory in what you perceive will be a source of disagreement. I think most of us do this a bit. And sometimes it is better not to get into the bigger questions (eg., 'is it cruel not to put her in pink?'). You can get away with just grinning and saying you don't think she knows pink from her elbow right now.

If you go gently for this early stage, you've a ready-made answer whatever they say later on. Do you put her in the odd pink item when she was a baby? If so when your mum says it seems mean your three-year-old doesn't have a fairy dress you laugh and point out you let mum put her in the pink onesie so she's surely had plenty of girlie clothes in her life. Do you convince them to buy you lots of unisex outfits? Then when your MIL asks can she buy a disney dress now, you point out the unisex clothes don't seem to have done any harm so far, have they?

Can you approach from a 'please buy ONLY organic' - as the vast majority of organic is gender neutral.

If this is true, and they were typical 1950s, then you are inventing the issue

Indeed, with two older brothers I grew up in mostly dungarees or shorts. I got a frilly frock at Whitsuntide until I was about 5. Both girls and boys seemed to get a lot muckier in those days. I could be imagining that of course.

@Ihaventgottimeforthis

But the principle is important. Children are increasingly pigeonholed into stereotypical clothes and toys, we're getting worse, not better.

I think OP is right to try to stand up to DPs and ILs - if we all just let it slide, then things won't change.
It's on the same spectrum of 'boys will be boys' mantra to explain crappy male behaviour. Unless some people start to make a change, it will just carry on.
OP you could flip it - just bombard them with examples of clothes you DO like.

Thank you for this. Yes that's a very good idea.

@Thisismytimetoshine

It's quite entertaining listening to people earnestly explaining why putting your dd in a pink tutu is turning her into a non feminist barbie princess, but putting your ds in one renders it gender neutral. Get over yourselves with the fecking tutus 😄

Let's all agree to just back off fro mthe tutus. Every person should own one for days when they want to twirl or be a Powerpuff girl.

OP what DO you like, other than "gender neutral" however you choose to interpret that?