Help explain non-gendered clothes to DM & MIL?

[NewbieMumma]

Please can someone help me and DH formulate a neat phrase to explain to my mother and my MIL why my DH and I do not want gendered gifts and clothes for our new baby? We don't know the gender yet (due in a couple of days) and we have bought gender neutral baby grows and things. We want to maintain this once the baby is here, and not dress them in overtly blue dinosaurs or pink hearts, and slogans etc. This is all in line with our views and how we try to carry out our roles at home. Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live.

As generous as it is of the GPs to want to buy the baby clothes, we tried to casually say "nothing too gendered please" mainly so that it wasn't a waste of their money. However we have been met with constant resistance and questions. Eg "surely once you know the sex you'll be buying blue / pink"? "What if they are a girly girl" etc etc, "what is he loves trucks"? "It's so sad / cruel" etc!

I find it so time consuming to explain why I don't want to dress my child in "daddy's little princess" type stuff which only promotes gender role stereotypes in a tiny child who has no inclination towards any of this and no knowledge of patriarchy at first. I know there's only so much we can do and it won't be long before we start to see our child influenced by the patriarchal society is is immersed in, but I think it's reasonable for us to do what we can to balance the scales a little bit whilst the child is in their home environment, through books, toys, clothes, critical thinking and choice of language etc etc.

My mother and MIL just can't get it and say that we will struggle as the shops only sell girls clothes and boys clothes. DH answers his mum's comments with sensible rational reasons why our choice makes sense and tries to get her head around the concept, but she keeps on asking, or texting us photos of "cute" clothes, eg pink tutu dresses. We are also choosing not to dress the baby in "outfits" (dresses, jeans etc) mainly due to simplicity, and she's also questioning that alongside.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about something quick we can say that explains our pov and helps us make our point? Or do we just give up trying to explain?

I know I'm very probably way over thinking (tired and hormonal) and should just say a firm "that's our choice", but it irks me that they are trying to cajole us and that at this rate we will be gifted a bunch of stuff we don't want to give to our baby.

your baby is not even born yet, and you are VERY HEAVY in your convictions.

Just relax a bit...

But why?

@Ihaventgottimeforthis

OP isn't being 'insufferable' she's come here asking for ideas on how to communicate her point of view so that the parents understand, I think that's fine. The reason it is difficult to buy gender neutral clothing is because it's cheap and easy for mass production, so consumer demand is being shaped that way. I agree this doesn't need to cause family rifts, but it's a perfectly reasonable stance to want to take in the early years, when it IS down to the parents how they dress their children. Stick to your guns OP!

Thank you!

But why?
why what?

@Canyousewcushions

I was stunned at how much pink stuff I was given after DD1 was born. It was horrific. A LOT of it got sent to the charity shop with labels still attached. I also bought quite a lot of boy clothes- jeans/dungarees/general not pink stuff, and mixed it with the less offensive girly stuff that I did keep.

And ignore the naysayers on here- I've got 3 girls, all of whom love trains and Lego and barbies and princesses and dinosaurs and sticks and sparkles. And they've all been through phases of making guns out of anything they could find (gun toys is about the one thing we don't have). And they need to be run ragged if we're to get any peace, and also love crafting away. We have clothes with princesses and clothes with tractors.

They're happy and confident, love being girls and also have strong senses of their own identities and not needing to gender conform if they want to do "boy" things. They love playing princesses but they're usually firece warrior princesses in their games, while wearing sparkly outfits. I might be just a little bit proud of them

They sound great! Thank you for this!

Why should she "relax" or not have opinions on sexism and how it affects children before the baby is here?

Are we not allowed opinions, it's weird comment to make.

Just wondering why a woman should stop thining and "relax" . Could you elaborate?

While I admire your stance I’m dying for you to come back and post in 3 years when your child either wants a sparkly pink tutu dress or Spider-Man T shirt and has a massive tantrum in the store complete with head banging, thrashing and a vomit finale because you are insisting on a neutral grey T-shirt with no slogans. Or even if you avoid ever taking them to the shops, when they beg non-stop to have the same outfit as little Bobby, dressed like a Bob the Builder replica or Mandy who wears so much pink glittery stuff she has started to fart it. I’m sure you will be able to impart your philosophies to them no problems and they will play along nicely. Do let us know how you go with it.

I would approach it slightly differently. It would probably be easier for them to understand it from a simpler point of view that you don't like that style rather than turn it into something they can ignore because you're 'making an issue' out of clothes - 'It's just a tutu, it doesn't have to mean anything else! How dramatic you are!'

But if you say -

'Oh no, I can't stand the dress babies up look! I think it makes them look like creepy plastic dolls, haha! Just not my style thanks - I dont want you to waste your money because I don't want to dress her like that - then that's easier.

'Oh no, I think outfits are really uncomfortable looking. No jeans please- no, I won't be putting them in anything with a horrid tight elastic waistband yet. Sleepsuits please, if you want to see them wearing what you buy. Comfort comes first!' - it's MUCH harder to argue with that.

Also give them alternatives. I had all mine in sleepsuits for yonks but flagged up the lovely colourful bright patterned Scandi ones that I liked, and to be fair the older generation thought they were lovely and when I said this is what I like, nice bright things, so much cuter than an insipid pink frilly one - they were fine with it. Send them links to this kind of stuff and say, this is what we like (if you do of course!) - help them out.

www.smafolk.dk/en/clothing/baby/c-30/c-170

Dress your baby however you wish. You don't have to put the baby in any clothes you receive that you don't like. They'll probably get the message, but even if they don't, it really doesn't matter much. It's a short-lived phase - kids tell you who they are and what they like soon enough.

Just tell them you want unisex? That means the same thing and it's the word that was always used for gender neutral. Was always yellow, white, grey and green for unisex

@puzzledpiece

"Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live

Actually this is so condescending. They didn't have a 'choice' it was what a patriarchal society imposed on most women of their generation. They can't help that indoctrination, so your attitude to their attitudes should be less judgemental."

I should clarify my OP. When I said "1950's" that was my shorthand for their approach. They weren't actually around in the 1950's. MIL is 52! She definitely had a choice.

I apologise that my 1950's shorthand caused confusion.

There's a book called Cinderella ate my daughter which is quite a good read OP. Maybe get a copy for your mother?

The truth is things are far more gendered at childhood than it was for us and your mother might not realise it (and be quite horrified tbh)

My advice is to stop being such a try hard

I found this quite an unnecessarily unkind remark from someone whose username is @WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo

You have to remember, OP, that the GPs2be with their antiquated ways raised you and DH, and you turned out OK. If their influence didn't work at first hand (as parents) then it's even more unlikely at second hand (as grandparents).

@SarahAndQuack

OP, in case it's helpful:

Most of DD's clothes are nutmeg at Morrisons, Tu at Sainsbury's, and H&M.

H&M does good value t-shirts in their organic cotton range, which last well. I get DD packs of their plain t-shirts regularly - very cheap, and they do packs of mixed colours or stripes and colours. Likewise leggings.

They do also have masses of tat in store so when your child is older they will gravitate to that and if it bugs you, shop online.

Tu is absolutely bloody brilliant to about age 3. Some of it is gendered but much isn't, and the colours and prints are cheerful and fun.

If your mum and MIL want to spend more, Jojo usually has animal-print stuff that isn't gendered. Watch out for their wellies - they're shit.

Thank you

How about you gracefully accept any GIFT that is given to you, thank them and smile.

What you decide to do with your own money, is entirely up to you. Will you be policing the present list over the next 18 years to ensure that they are sufficiently gender neutral.

Smegmaballet

you are allowed opinions and express them, others are allowed their own.

You state your case to your family, you have no say or control on what they decide to give you. Be rude and refuse the gift, accept it and regift or sell it back, it's up to you. I fail to see the point of lecturing endlessly family if they are not interested. Both sides believe they are right.

Plus it's great to focus on that now, but there are so many other challenges when the baby is there that it will sound a bit silly when the poor kid is there.

You want to teach your child critical thinking: show them that people have different opinions instead of refusing all others view than yours, that works too... These mother and mother-in-law, they are the ones who raised you in their old-fashion views. You clearly have made your own since, so they didn't "damage" you or prevent you from independent thinking, did they?

@Jellybeansincognito

I really don’t understand this?

It’s a bit hypocritical?

You want non gendered clothes but at the same time are creating illusions that pink is for girls and blue is for boys.

No clothes are for any gender really, I think you’re being a bit precious.

I don't think this is right actually. There are plenty of studies about this and there are societal codes about colours and imagery that are unconsciously (and often overtly) gendered.

Can they not just buy stuff in white, yellow, green etc? Why the fuck don't they just do that?

I didn't find out the sex of either of my babies (both boys) beforehand, so getting stuff in neutral colours was the best way forward. Once they got older, we had a mix o
of primary colours but also lots of blues and browns because apparently that's what boys like - well actually, that's mostly all that was available! but still whenever possible I would get primary colours.

Both boys wear a good mix of colours still, although the tween is heading into "black emo clothes" territory now

But what other posters are saying is true - once they're out they make their own minds up how "boyish" or "girly" they want to be. DS1 wasn't bothered either way but DS2 for some reason was very anti anything "girly". No difference in how they were treated or anything else - just their own reactions.

It's fine to have aims in how things will go - but just be prepared for the baby to have their own feelings too.

There’s no such thing as ‘gender neutral’ clothing colours 😫
Colour is colour!
Pink was always traditionally a ‘male’ colour.
I can’t stand this bullshit and damaging notion that pink and flowers and beauty = female and blue and cars and violence = male.

Not sure how to quote but OP I didn’t comment Or make assumptions on your values at all I said that the home environment is more important (I’d assumed you already knew that as you noted!) My point I suppose is that today you don’t need to battle the grandparents or have them “challenge” you. What a horrible way to
start out parenthood. You don’t need to persuade people your way is right (for what it’s worth I think it is!) you just need to speak their language more. So ask for unisex say prefer not logos etc etc then dress your baby however you damn well please!! Why do you feel you need to make them understand? You don’t just ask for prefer clothing and say thank you for any gifts. Use or don’t use depending on your preference. Don’t turn it into a big issue it’s so so not with it. I started that way “I don’t like pink she won’t be wearing pink and frills please don’t buy” You know what I got given that anyway. I said thanks I used the bits I liked and rest was outgrown pretty quickly having never been used. It wasn’t worth it. I don’t make comment now. I don’t get bought clothing now except my own mum buys bits but what she knows I like. My point wasn’t YOUR values ffs it was focus on what you can control which now is your baby’s clothing that you use (not what she’s gifted) then the home environment as you already do. Outside influences never go away.

And honestly chill out. Don’t let this be a BIG thing. Don’t let it cause family issues. At end of day grandparents don’t need to understands your choice or reasons. You dress your baby however you like

hese mother and mother-in-law, they are the ones who raised you in their old-fashion views. You clearly have made your own since, so they didn't "damage" you or prevent you from independent thinking, did they?

My mother never tried to dress my child up in pink tat. Sorry, you assume every woman over 50 is incapable of critical thinking.

My grandmother used to get me subscriptions to National Geographic and rock polishing kits, fossil kits, lego, microscopes, chemistry sets. I spent hours burning stuff up in the garage.

So actually yes, I probably am influenced by their thinking. Thank fuck they didn't "relax" and stop trying to have clever conversations once they got pregnant.

I think forget the gender neutral discussion. It probably will be tricky to explain. But maybe be diplomatic as poss, something like 'I'm not keen on all those t-shirts that say 'mummy's little princess' or that type of thing'. And hopefully they'll remember to steer clear of the worst of those. Even if they do get blue or pink, you could just include them in the array of colours your baby wears. It doesn't matter to much if a stranger can guess the sex of your child by what they happen to be wearing that day. At least I don't think it does.

@Wecandothis99

sometimes I've had stuff that's not my taste but it's a gift so I put the kids in it. You don't have to try so hard to be different you know, just go with the flow, you're thinking too much about CLOTHES to keep your child warm!

I know that. That's actually what I've said if you read my OP. We are getting simple and easy babygros that are practical.

There were far more simple clothes when my babies were born. The Princess slogans came later. I agree they are grim and so are the ‘boys are naughty’ type slogans.
It might work better to ask specifically for what you do want instead of saying gender-neutral eg I like these red striped tops/all natural colours/ eco brand.
However sadly DGD learnt at her Outstanding nursery that pink is for girls, blue for boys etc. Our saying ‘colours are for everyone’ ‘boys can like pink’ was met with pitying looks.
DGD even said one day at nursery home time ‘do you want to see who has the best hair?’ and introduced a little girl with long golden curls ☹️
So all your efforts are probably in vain.

Let's hope you'll respect the decisions of your child when they choose pink or blue just like you're asking the child's grandparents to respect your choices now. You may very well be able to choose what they wear when they're tiny but when they're two years old and refuse point blank to wear anything that's not sparkly I wish you well!