Help explain non-gendered clothes to DM & MIL?

[NewbieMumma]

Please can someone help me and DH formulate a neat phrase to explain to my mother and my MIL why my DH and I do not want gendered gifts and clothes for our new baby? We don't know the gender yet (due in a couple of days) and we have bought gender neutral baby grows and things. We want to maintain this once the baby is here, and not dress them in overtly blue dinosaurs or pink hearts, and slogans etc. This is all in line with our views and how we try to carry out our roles at home. Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live.

As generous as it is of the GPs to want to buy the baby clothes, we tried to casually say "nothing too gendered please" mainly so that it wasn't a waste of their money. However we have been met with constant resistance and questions. Eg "surely once you know the sex you'll be buying blue / pink"? "What if they are a girly girl" etc etc, "what is he loves trucks"? "It's so sad / cruel" etc!

I find it so time consuming to explain why I don't want to dress my child in "daddy's little princess" type stuff which only promotes gender role stereotypes in a tiny child who has no inclination towards any of this and no knowledge of patriarchy at first. I know there's only so much we can do and it won't be long before we start to see our child influenced by the patriarchal society is is immersed in, but I think it's reasonable for us to do what we can to balance the scales a little bit whilst the child is in their home environment, through books, toys, clothes, critical thinking and choice of language etc etc.

My mother and MIL just can't get it and say that we will struggle as the shops only sell girls clothes and boys clothes. DH answers his mum's comments with sensible rational reasons why our choice makes sense and tries to get her head around the concept, but she keeps on asking, or texting us photos of "cute" clothes, eg pink tutu dresses. We are also choosing not to dress the baby in "outfits" (dresses, jeans etc) mainly due to simplicity, and she's also questioning that alongside.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about something quick we can say that explains our pov and helps us make our point? Or do we just give up trying to explain?

I know I'm very probably way over thinking (tired and hormonal) and should just say a firm "that's our choice", but it irks me that they are trying to cajole us and that at this rate we will be gifted a bunch of stuff we don't want to give to our baby.

OP, I really want you to come back once the baby is a month old and you've had two hours of sleep and let us know how much you still care about this.

When there's one babygro left and it's the pink fluffy tutued monstrosity of doom, you will have your baby in it and be happy of it.

I am a feminist, I buy gender neutral stuff as much as possible, but you can't force others to think the same way. I'm sure you don't buy Andrea Dworkin books for your mum, right?

What other people say though in relation to your child is a small part of it. You can challange people and ask why they assume your child is a girl for wearing lilac or wings.

The behaviour etc of the parents within their home Is also a major influence.

I see many posts on the site about equality within society but many failures within the home.

You can raise your children as neutral as you want but if there isn’t equality within the home then it’s pointless. I was born in the 70’s and saw Male and female relatives work as well as staying at home.

The idea that one of them would work then do all the house and child stuff would not have gone down well at all. My grandad would have been the first to ask about their health 🤣 come to think of it my nan was wearing trousers in the 50’s

Forgot to add she was also a trained mechanic who enjoyed wearing dresses as well and the occasional red lippy with trousers or the dress.

people.com/human-interest/dad-dresses-as-elsa-support-sons-love-for-character/

maybe they might like to read about this parent.
i understand i think OP what you are attempting.
you could just say to the GMs, if you buy us those kind of clothes, they will be going straight to the charity shop. we felt it only right to tell you that. it's good to support charity. just so long as you know.

You can raise your children as neutral as you want but if there isn’t equality within the home then it’s pointless.

This, doesn’t matter what you dress them in if they see dad going out to work while mum takes a lesser role professionally to keep the home fires burning. I take it that you and your partner are sharing parental leave once little one comes along?

He is now 10 and have started letting him choose his own clothes... Not sure that I agree with it all (he went into his academically selective school in a fortnite hoody today 😳), but some of his choices are quite nice. It is good that he can develop his own identity.

What on earth has the fact that his school is academically selective got to do with anything? What should he be wearing to show his intelligence -a tweed jacket?

I phrased it as "we love bright colours!" And pointed people towards brands like Little Bird, Frugi, Piccalilli and plain brights from places like Matalan and Next. It worked. Bonus was I used it all again for DS.

DD is 4 now and she does like pink, but no more or less than other colours.

She has one slogan tee, it says "she believed she could so she did" and was a present.

I think people on here are really being unnecessarily obtuse.

10 years on I still care about this issue. Being 2 months in and sleep deprived didn't mean I ever got desperate enough to dress my children in clothing I objected to. A couple of months in I was sorting through gifts and second hand donations and getting rid of bags full of pink to the charity shop to balance up DD1's wardrobe- keeping pink and frilly bits I liked but not the mountains and mountains I'd been given.

I am not a joy sucker. My DDs have been allowed to choose their own clothes since they were able to- before 2. The overall effect on opening their wardrobes is somewhat rainbow like- they have clothing of every colour, including blue and pink. They have frilly dresses and dungarees and tractor t shirts and everything else you can imagine. My eldest went though a phase at 3 where she mainly wore party dresses- a popular look at nursery- and that was fine. She grew out of it and now frequently dresses down in jeans and t shirt for parties, though she still loves a dress/skirt for sitting in a tree. The point is that they have a true choice, I'm not imposing 'pretty' on them any more than I am imposing pink or trousers on them.

Their toys are similar. They have been asked by visiting boys why they have boys toys, but overall there's a balance. There are barbies and tutus and LOL dolls and baby dolls and princess dresses and Lego friends. And there are cars, trains, meccano and dinosaur Lego.

And in my house, yes on the career front. DH and i have taken shared parental leave and are both part time to do equal amounts of childcare duty. I know a lot of other households with similar arrangements, it's not uncommon now. Which is a Good Thing.

And yes, I think that clothes, along with a whole load of other factors, contribute to our understanding of ourselves. And if the message is there from day one that a girl must wear pink to be seen as a girl, I think it can have an influence on her understanding of how her gender should be expressed.

It's natural to want to choose your children's clothes - say you want to buy them yourself apart from maybe one outfit per grandma.

And if the message is there from day one that a girl must wear pink to be seen as a girl, I think it can have an influence on her understanding of how her gender should be expressed.

I don’t see anyone here saying a girl must wear pink - more that balance is needed, only dressing a girl in pink frills isn’t ok, never dressing a girl in pink as a moral objection to gender stereotypes is simply reinforcing the very thing you’re protesting against. I’d grab wants to buy pink/blue I couldn’t get too stressed about it, certainly not to the point of harming relationships - I’d simply not put the clothes on the child, or would balance them up with other stuff to make my child’s wardrobe “somewhat rainbow like”.

@ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords

He is now 10 and have started letting him choose his own clothes... Not sure that I agree with it all (he went into his academically selective school in a fortnite hoody today 😳), but some of his choices are quite nice. It is good that he can develop his own identity.

What on earth has the fact that his school is academically selective got to do with anything? What should he be wearing to show his intelligence -a tweed jacket?

Arf at academically selective school. How Hyacinth Bucket to weasel that one in to a conversation about clothes!!

@ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords

He is now 10 and have started letting him choose his own clothes... Not sure that I agree with it all (he went into his academically selective school in a fortnite hoody today 😳), but some of his choices are quite nice. It is good that he can develop his own identity.

What on earth has the fact that his school is academically selective got to do with anything? What should he be wearing to show his intelligence -a tweed jacket?

Despite being a child genius he still has questionable judgement in clothes? But who cares what he's wearing when he saves the world eh??

Lol@ 'academically selective' being snuk in there.....

Perhaps she means it's ok for her son to wear such clothes because his school is posh and brainy.. Whereas if he went to bog standard comp he might look a bit.....hmmm what word to use........

This seems to be the opposite to what I observe in my circle. Older women, in their 60s seem to think the overt blue/pink thing is daft especially before kids can express choice but women in their 20s think putting a child in the "wrong colour" is almost akin to abuse.

When you look back to the 60/70/80s hand me downs ruled so as far as possible you bought clothes that would work on a boy or a girl so you could reuse them for the next one whichever sex it was.

Perhaps explain it more that way.

Alternatively perhaps they think you are being too rigid and might cause upset if you don't allow your child to wear some items that follow its interests and fit in with its peers.

Perhaps they have misunderstood gender neutral and think you are planning to raise the child as non-binary and fail to recognise its biological sex.

Women in their 60s now are the generation who campaigned for women's liberation and burned their bras. They wanted to be allowed to do any job irrespective of their sex and be paid the same as the men.

Most women I know of that age are fairly gender critical, although their experiences mean that they recognise many kids have phases where they want to wear certain things and have strong views on the subject.

Just don't use them or exchange for what you do like. First times I'd politely accept any gift as it the thought that counts, but you don't have to use them.

Silence is sometimes the strongest weapon. Hopefully they'll get bored keep buying stuff that's never used. By keep going on about your views its turning in to an issue, you don't have to justify your actions but you may find that your views do change as your baby develops in to a child with ideas of their own.

The post was about inflicting gender stereotypes on a newborn baby

Anyone who interacts with your baby in a meaningful way will know their sex making the clothes they wear irrelevant to the child. This is more about you.

@WeAllHaveWings

The post was about inflicting gender stereotypes on a newborn baby

Anyone who interacts with your baby in a meaningful way will know their sex making the clothes they wear irrelevant to the child. This is more about you.

It's not more about you, it's all about you.

@Jellybeansincognito
Raising 4 was bad enough. Thankfully hysterectomy dealt with the hell of it

@Lexilooo Well said. As I've posted further up my nan was a mechanic, she had been since sometime in the war, there's old pics of her and her colleagues in their uniforms etc.

If their sons had pulled some of the unequal thinking, grandad would be the first to ask wtf was wrong with them. Stuff around the home wasn't based on gender, it was based on if you live here and can you get off your ass you do it. Of course it wasn't all great, because we kids should be seen not heard was still the mantra in the 80's in many homes.

If the boys could sort out the rabbit for dinner then so could the girls. Raised to be independent because they saw what happened to their family and friends, the detrimental consequences of reliance and dependency.

Single parent homes started to become the "norm" in the 70's/80's. Funnily enough all my aunts including my mum had their hubbies walk out cos they didn't want to give up their jobs looool.

Buying things for a gender somehow became a norm sometime between my 20 and 14 year old being born.

There were no pink or blue toys, no gender specific baby items. There were a lot of bright colours that were suitable for both genders.

By the time the youngest was born there was already a gender divide which seems to be more prevalent. My girls have never wore pink as a choice, I loved the blues, greens and turquoise and srnsible clothing like cropped trousers and proper t shirts.

My girls still dress in jeans, t shirts and trainers even now.

@Jellycatspyjamas

You can raise your children as neutral as you want but if there isn’t equality within the home then it’s pointless.

This, doesn’t matter what you dress them in if they see dad going out to work while mum takes a lesser role professionally to keep the home fires burning. I take it that you and your partner are sharing parental leave once little one comes along?

Why isn't that equal?

My DC are 25 and 28. Plenty of pink and blue when they were born! I avoided slogans and friends didn’t buy that type of tat anyway. I preferred white. Makes life a lot easier but I wouldn’t have made an issue of it. Disney was big years ago with lots of their female characters on clothes. I don’t remember bright colours for new borns but it was easy to find pale yellow or a mint green if you didn’t want pink or blue. Doesn’t make any difference to the child at all. They are not aware of what they are wearing!

I really would not get too hung up on this. My toddler daughter loved pink and was obsessed with sleeping beauty and dolls. As a young teen she's read countless feminist texts and is incredibly well informed and articulate about feminism, equality and the world around her.
By all means dress your child how you choose but it's far more important how you speak to her and how you behave around her that counts rather than the colour of her trousers!

Why isn't that equal?

It’s not equal because it assumes the woman to be the primary carer, the man continues to progress his career while hers is put on hold. It leaves the woman financially vulnerable if the relationship breaks down and assumes his career holds more importance than hers - thereby reinforcing the very gender roles the OP is saying she wants to challenge in not allowing gendered clothes for her child.

You don’t need to look very far on threads here to see women constantly falling into the role of caring for her child, stoping or reducing work, carrying the bulk of household tasks and organisation. That’s often on the grounds that the man is the higher earner - the equal thing to do would be for both to adjust their working situations so that she can continues to build her career, rather than the gap widening as she takes time out and his career continues unaffected.

There’s no point in dressing your girl in blue dinosaurs if in every other way she sees gender values reinforced in mum running the house, pulling back on her career, not engaging in personal and professional development and dad continuing as he always did.

While women absolutely might chose to stay home with children, not share parental leave and chose a lesser professional role, let’s not pretend that doesn’t reinforce gender stereotypes more powerfully than dressing a girl in a tutu.