Help explain non-gendered clothes to DM & MIL?

[NewbieMumma]

Please can someone help me and DH formulate a neat phrase to explain to my mother and my MIL why my DH and I do not want gendered gifts and clothes for our new baby? We don't know the gender yet (due in a couple of days) and we have bought gender neutral baby grows and things. We want to maintain this once the baby is here, and not dress them in overtly blue dinosaurs or pink hearts, and slogans etc. This is all in line with our views and how we try to carry out our roles at home. Both MIL and DM are very old fashioned and were very 1950's style wives and mothers, which was their choice but not the way we live.

As generous as it is of the GPs to want to buy the baby clothes, we tried to casually say "nothing too gendered please" mainly so that it wasn't a waste of their money. However we have been met with constant resistance and questions. Eg "surely once you know the sex you'll be buying blue / pink"? "What if they are a girly girl" etc etc, "what is he loves trucks"? "It's so sad / cruel" etc!

I find it so time consuming to explain why I don't want to dress my child in "daddy's little princess" type stuff which only promotes gender role stereotypes in a tiny child who has no inclination towards any of this and no knowledge of patriarchy at first. I know there's only so much we can do and it won't be long before we start to see our child influenced by the patriarchal society is is immersed in, but I think it's reasonable for us to do what we can to balance the scales a little bit whilst the child is in their home environment, through books, toys, clothes, critical thinking and choice of language etc etc.

My mother and MIL just can't get it and say that we will struggle as the shops only sell girls clothes and boys clothes. DH answers his mum's comments with sensible rational reasons why our choice makes sense and tries to get her head around the concept, but she keeps on asking, or texting us photos of "cute" clothes, eg pink tutu dresses. We are also choosing not to dress the baby in "outfits" (dresses, jeans etc) mainly due to simplicity, and she's also questioning that alongside.

Anyway, does anyone have any ideas about something quick we can say that explains our pov and helps us make our point? Or do we just give up trying to explain?

I know I'm very probably way over thinking (tired and hormonal) and should just say a firm "that's our choice", but it irks me that they are trying to cajole us and that at this rate we will be gifted a bunch of stuff we don't want to give to our baby.

Please don’t worry about it too much. Clearly you and your DH has a gender typical upbringing and haven’t carried those views to adulthood so don’t worry that your child will if they are dressed a certain way.
Perhaps just choose the clothes of the ‘other sex’ to balance baby’s wardrobe? So if they buy lots of blue for a boy buy him a tutu and a neon pink onesie. X

But the principle is important. Children are increasingly pigeonholed into stereotypical clothes and toys, we're getting worse, not better.

I think OP is right to try to stand up to DPs and ILs - if we all just let it slide, then things won't change.
It's on the same spectrum of 'boys will be boys' mantra to explain crappy male behaviour. Unless some people start to make a change, it will just carry on.
OP you could flip it - just bombard them with examples of clothes you DO like.

Deanetta

Haha! I really wouldn’t - none of the children seemed interested in the toys they were given.
The boy (in the dress) was not at all interested in that pink teddy for example.

Can we stop slating tutus please?

There's nothing wrong with tutus.

DS loves his tutu.

It's really rude to say this is exhausting or PFB. Or all the superior comments about how you won't care when it's born/when you have more children.

I know plenty of people who did care, very much.

FWIW, when DD was vomiting over multiple changes every day, and I felt as if I was swimming in baby secretions and hadn't had a straight hour's sleep in forever, there was something really nice about the fact her actual clothes were lovely cheerful bright colours that I really liked. It gave me a boost. There is nothing wrong with that. I still always buy packs of pretty muslins for expectant mums, because if you're going to spend hours with one over your shoulder, it might as well be in colours that give you a lift, rather than white that goes grey after one wash.

(I do also agree the principle is important, but I think people forget how psychologically draining it can be to have your first, and how much the little things matter.)

therealkittfane But that's the point. That boy has probably already been preconditioned to like trucks over teddies. But the carer immediately went for the teddy, because they are a 'girl'.

Nothing wrong with liking trucks, or teddies, or both, or neither. And when the child is older and can understand these things you can help to shape their view of the world. But when babies are so young it's up to the care giver to keep from starting those stereotypes, and it's clear that clothing is fundamental to that.

I appreciate that in real life situations the grandparents will know what sex the child is no matter what they are wearing, but I think the video is a good example of the unconscious way that children are treated depending upon what they are wearing - and the OP is looking for a reason to explain to the grandparents why they don't want to follow that route.

If you want to dress your child in genuinely gender neutral clothing it's a) very expensive, all supermarket and Next clothing is gendered and b) almost impossible, as even red/blue/yellow clothes often have a small pattern or logo on them which denotes gender.

My mum was into gender neutral in the 70's. I wore green and brown cord dungarees and had a bowl hair cut. I looked hideous. As soon as I was able, I tried to dress in pretty frilly sparkly attractive clothing, and have done so all my adult life, as well as wearing make-up since the age of 13 (my mum wears none). I had adult role models who didn't shave their legs or pits or wear any make-up but I chose my own path.

I wouldn't bother so much about clothes, you are fighting a tide. Just ask for 'neutral' clothing at this stage and see what happens. Despite my feminine clothing and appearance, I have a successful career and am starting my own business. These things are actually not mutually exclusive, as people who are perceived as attractive (in conventional boring ways) tend to do well in life as people respond to them well. I don't dress like that for that reason, but I've noticed people respond well to me and I think that's part of it.

Don't experiment on your child, bring them up to think critically about gender and clothing, but don't be rigid or prescriptive, it'll backfire.

A more neutral message is stuff like ‘they will be choosing their own clothes and stealing my eyeliner soon enough, I want to enjoy this window of dressing them in things I like.’

Christ you sound like hard work

@timeisnotaline

A more neutral message is stuff like ‘they will be choosing their own clothes and stealing my eyeliner soon enough, I want to enjoy this window of dressing them in things I like.’

Esp if its a boy

OP - I would also agree with your plan to not dress the baby up in outfits. We were gifted (and looked at) so many cute outfits. In reality anything but a sleepsuit has ended up being given to charity unworn. As a new parent I find it difficult enough to change nappies, clothes etc as it is. A sleepsuit is much easier to get a baby in and out of than a t-shirt, jeans and socks. And the baby seems to much more comfortable in a sleepsuit too!

I have one of each. I prefer brighter and darker colours over pastels and whites because it hides the inevitable stains.

I'm very anti pink but to my irritation DD loves pink. She also loves cars, to the point of the cars having tea parties with all the tiny bits of Lego in bright jewel colours.

One desperation outfit (wouldn't get dressed) was a tulle pink sparkly dress worn with dinosaur pyjama bottoms and gruffalo wellies.

I'm relatively happy with this outcome.

DS gets all kind of hand me downs and wears whatever, including a fair few formerly white tops that got washed with a new red pillowcase and are now pastel pink...

It's quite entertaining listening to people earnestly explaining why putting your dd in a pink tutu is turning her into a non feminist barbie princess, but putting your ds in one renders it gender neutral.

Get over yourselves with the fecking tutus 😄

I had boys first. They had a dolls house, baby dolls, you kitchen etc. My daughter is my youngest and I am afraid she is different. Right about 3 she flipped into swishy, sparkly clothes, princesses, unicorns etc and was far more into doll play than the boys had been. I felt that since I had bought trains for the boys when they had gone through their train mad phase, I should buy a Frozen doll for DD if that was her hearts desire - in other words, I felt that to deny her her interests because I didn't personally like them was really unfair. I didn't make her into princesses, she did it herself.

The same thing has happened to my sister who was always more radical than me and I think secretly thought I had pushed my DD "girly" after my 2 boys. Her DD had no pink baby clothes. No sooner had she turned 3 then she was putting on the fairy skirt and wings at nursery and twirling around.

I'm as radfem as they come but really you need to stop being so insufferable about this.
Your kiddo will get gendered clothes and toys. It's going to happen. It's far more important that you don't enforce the stereotypes in your actual lives. Eg if you have a girl it doesn't matter if she wears pink if you teach her to be strong and brave and not focus too much on her looks. If you have a boy let him wear dinosaurs but teach him to be kind and empathetic and take responsibility for his actions.
Gender isn't really enforced by clothes.

You sound pretty condescending and dismissive if your DM and DMIL. Don’t burn bridges over baby clothes - you’ll need them once the baby is here!!!

I also think you’re making this into too “big” a deal. You’re trying to explain a whole parenting concept to them and they (rightly!) are probably thinking you’re naive given that you don’t actually have a child as yet! Just say you’d prefer unisex clothing now (and that’s the term!L not non gendered!) and that you aren’t a fan of slogan clothing but would prefer bright patterns spots whatever it is you actually like. You could add that you aren’t going to be using outfits as believe it’s more comfortable and practical for
Baby to be in sleepsuits over say frilly dresses or mini jeans so please don’t buy too many outfits you’d much prefer nicely Onsies (or whatever you actually want with link for examples).

That approach is clearer and has some common sense. Whereas saying your unborn child won’t be wearing pink blue or having dollies or trucks or dinosaurs....well it all just sounds a bit “woke” and eyerolly.

For what it’s worth I also think clothing for a young baby is the least of your worries in this area. I didn’t buy blue pink etc but didn’t go so far as to put ds in a dress for the sake of it (if he’s wanted no issue). Yet after starting school he came out with “but pink is for girls” “girls can’t do that” No one in our family friends extended family talk like that it’s come from school mixing etc and they are quite a open school and area (one boy DOES where a skirt sometimes none of the children care). So that took some gentle rearranging his brain and showing that wasn’t correct. On the other hand my dd has been in brothers hand me downs, never wears dresses because i find them completely impractical for younger children, did get dolls but also trucks dinosaurs trains, had pink tops, blue tops yellow tops etc etc. She’s almost 5 and LOVES pink And unicorns yet trains are her favourite toy. I personal cannot stand pink (or green) and I’m not a girlie girl. Point is you actually have little influence sometimes.

You’d be far better focusing on the attitude you want your child to have and demonstrating those. Boys and girls can be anything etx. Mum or dad can do the washing take the bin out etc etc. That will have more impact that forcing an excitable grandma to buy “gender neutral clothing”..

Finally...you don’t need to use gifts!! Say thank you and return or charity shop it. I got clothes I wouldn’t use. Sifff trousers Dungarees shorts for ds and overly frilly dresses for dd. I never used as never had opportunity for them to wear given our life style. I didn’t say “actually I hate those don’t buy” I just never used. Distant relatives for baby gifts one off didn’t matter closer like grandparents...well they soon saw how I dressed my children and started changing their purchases accordingly.

Honestly relax a little

Maybe change their direction in what to be looking for into research about the environment etc. Then they can empower your newborn with all their understanding when they're older.
Example:
Thank you for your kind offer of purchasing items for our imminent arrival.
With so many beautiful barely worn clothes ending up at landfil sites and the amount of water used to make the latest fashionable/fad clothing contributing to the latest environmental issues, we have made the decision not to dress our child in anything new. Instead we would be so grateful if you could help us find some second hand clothing that is very plain and gentle on our baby's skin.

very expensive, all supermarket and Next clothing is gendered

No it bloody isn't, where have you been?

The cheapest babygros you can get are multipacks of white.

It's piss easy.

@Limpid

Also, you are being kinda PFB.

There's nothing whatsoever 'PFB' (an expression which is used tiresomely often on Mn to ridicule first time parents) about wanting to combat a world in which boys are conditioned to think their psychological world is allowed to stretch from navy blue to khaki and from dinosaurs to diggers.

Thanks @Limbid for understanding exactly where I'm coming from.

In the nicest way possible I think you need to chill out a bit. It doesn’t matter what mil or dm think you will be the one dressing the baby so just buy what you want. Anything they buy you can just be given to friends or a charity shop if you really don’t like it. Does it matter?

For what it’s worth when my eldest was born I was all gender neutral clothing and not wanting to force stereotypes on my son but since he was able to sit up and grab toys he has gravitated towards cars and dinosaurs. I buy him lovely bright colour clothes and whenever he chooses his own it’s always something with a car on. If he’s happy I’m happy.

I tried telling people that I liked bright colours for babies rather than pastels. That didn't work. When baby was born, I mentioned that I didn't think pink would look great on her. MIL sent a pink outfit anyway as I was obviously biased. I thanked her and sent a picture of baby in pink outfit. Instant reply of 'Ugh, you were right, pink doesn't suit her!'.

No more pink outfits!

my mil likes to buy clothes for dc.
the most important rule with her is: either pink/purple or frilly.
luckily she's totally begind this. plus she lives in germany where clothes are more colourful and less gender specific.
jakoo has some great stuff

I agree white babygros are gender netural, but once they get over the age of 6 months, they can't live in white babygros (they are also the worst colour for staining and needing to be changed all the time). If you walk down any supermarket- you'll see two sections, one for boys, one for girls. That's why it's pointless to make such a fuss about a tiny baby who cannot perceive their own clothes, but then give up when they get to three and buy sparkly tutus. It's like people who don't ever give their children sugar, only honey etc. Maximum hassle, minimum effect on the child over the age of about 2.

@Nearlyalmost50, here's sainsbury's with an actual labelled link to unisex baby clothes: tuclothing.sainsburys.co.uk/c/baby/baby-unisex-clothes

I sometimes think people want to believe unisex has to be all new and snowflaky.

It is just what most sane people with not much money and multiple children do.

The first "gender" was a typo, thinking about "gender roles". I said "sex" later on in the post. Sorry for any offence caused. I know the difference.