BAME mum with mixed children...

[JJJuice]

DH is white, I'm not. DS due to start year 1 in September.

I have always been terrified of what my children may experience/hear throughout their school lives, I didn't have a good one myself and from those years it has given me a lifetime of anxiety, low confidence and trauma thanks to you if you were a bully, delete your be kind shit posts off your social media. After all the happening of now to stop racism I feel that teachers/mums/other children will be told to be extra careful around them and so on, happens to me in everyday life, that's uncomfortable too. There isn't a win situation and my children will have to go through it. It hurts me so much.

I've seen it happen at the playground, mums fake smiling to me when their DC come up to mine then quickly picking them up to go to another part.
Mums at stores and playgroups staring out my children's differences (hair, facial features) - I stopped attending and left it to DH because I couldn't watch.

Our DC are so lovely, full of confidence and happy now and I'm just here waiting to watch all of that fade.

I'm really sad reading this. It makes me sick this is still people's experiences in 2020.
I guess all we can do is hope the BLM movement might make people re evaluate how they treat others. It's certainly opened my eyes and made me have conversations with my dc that due to my privilege and ignorance I didn't realise I needed to have.
It's the parents that need to be educated not the kids, they just copy what they learn. Kids are very inclusive when they don't have external influences, my youngest dd (6) didn't get it at all, she has black friends at school and said things like, why wouldn't people want to be friends with so and so just because they have different colour skin? But we're all humans? Etc.. for her it was not on her radar.
I really hope your son will be happy at school and that he doesn't face any racism, it honestly breaks my heart that I even have to say that you you.

I think it’s all down to where you live.

There were no BAME people where I grew up, the area we are in now is a bit more culturally diverse and I think I can honestly say Dd doesn’t notice or care- her friends are her friends. Hopefully your kids will experience the same

OP, I've no experience of this, as I'm white and have no children, but mixed race children are often very beautiful, so maybe some people are looking at your DC with admiration. I am quite pale in the winter and envy people with coffee coloured skin - I would love to have that healthy tanned look all year round, and be able to wear any colour without looking washed out.

Sadly, I think the ongoing BAME protests which have been hijacked by a violent minority have set back race relations in this country, but hopefully things will calm down a bit in time. Hopefully some good will come out of it in the long run, as people will become more aware of the history of the slave trade, etc. Things have come a long way since you were a child, there is more awareness of discrimination and legislation to protect BAME people, so hopefully your DC won't experience the kind of bullying you suffered.
In truth, I doubt that discrimination will ever go away completely, as humans seem programmed to prefer their own "tribe", but if your DC are happy and outgoing, chances are they will be fine. Try not to let your past experiences colour the way you view your DC's interactions with others - you might be imagining some things (probably not all of it, but likely some of it).

Defenbaker ... I'm sure, I trust you meant well. And I don't want to be unnecessarily harsh, but your post is crashingly tone deaf and wrong on every level.

It is not about beauty. What about perfectly ordinary, plain looking black or mixed race people? Everyone finds their children beautiful but that isn't the OP's concern.

It is certainly not about looking healthily tanned or your horrendously patronising approval of a particular shade of colouring. (It would be better if you never, ever say this aloud again.)

And what in God's name does 'the history of the slave trade' have to do with a small child starting school in 21st century England? (I'm assuming the OP is in England.) Is that honestly, honestly your only reference point for thousands and thousands of years of history across every continent and the infinite variety of contributions to knowledge and progress made by citizens of countless countries - who happen to be a different colour to you? Nothing else at all - just 'the slave trade'?

As I said, I'm sure you meant well. I am even more sure that the OP can feel optimistic about her son's future. But you need to increase your knowledge and understanding if you wish to engage in this debate.

OP - arm your children with the very best education you can find. Surround them with people with the highest aspirations. Enable them to feel at home everywhere by equipping them with knowledge, skills and familiarity with all the great institutions and outdoor spaces that the most fortunate people in the country take for granted.

Presumably your husband is aware of your anxieties about their future?

I hear you OP. I am Indian but unlike the rest of my family can’t pass for white - the amount of funny looks I get at baby groups; or white people dismissing my advice because they think Indian babies are raised differently is unreal.

I think the best thing you can do for your kids is not to encourage friendships with children whose parents treat you like shit. Its not up to you to be fair to their kids - only encourage those friends where you feel comfortable around the whole family.

@Defenbaker no. Absolutely not. Being Black or mixed is far, far more than 'coffee coloured skin' meaning you can 'wear any colour'. Please do not make this a wistful comparison with your white skin that affords you every privilege. I see that you meant well, but it is exactly this reductive attitude that makes Black lives so much more difficult.

I am the white parent of mixed race DCs, and even though I was definitely aware of racism, discrimination, etc, it was still a shock to see how many people (at best) behave differently towards them, or are openly hostile towards them.

It's 2020, but we have so far to go before people really change their ways. (Just look at all the complaints about the statue being taken down, or the all lives matter shit).

OP - arm your children with the very best education you can find. Surround them with people with the highest aspirations. Enable them to feel at home everywhere by equipping them with knowledge, skills and familiarity with all the great institutions and outdoor spaces that the most fortunate people in the country take for granted.
Fantastic advice, this is how we are trying to raise our children.

DH is Asian, and I am white (but an immigrant who grew up on a housing estate) so we both used to sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable in certain 'posher' situations.
So we want the DC to feel comfortable anywhere, sometimes we go to things like country shows (because I lived in the countryside before I moved to England and I like them) and we are the only not white looking family but we go anyway.

I think it depends where you live. I am mixed race and my children's father is black. I've never experienced anything like this but then I live in london.

It’s not the same as we are a white family but we are a same-sex couple and we were so so worried about the discrimination our children may face, it was years before my partner dared do the school run as she was hoping the other parents wouldn’t notice the lack of a male parent.

We dealt with it by teaching our children that all different families exist, surrounding them with positive role models from other same sex families and educating them about discrimination and how it can happen when people are ignorant etc. My daughter is 8 now and she is such a confident child. She made all her friends rainbow coloured pride bracelets last year and spoke to her friends about the importance of inclusion, so proud of her!

Amazon has some brilliant children’s books that teach children about diversity also and the different family structures that we found very useful.

JJJuice I’m the white parent of mixed children in the Home Counties. As others said I think it depends on where you live. In my eldest class a 1/3 children are BAME or mixed and my middle child’s class it’s 40 per cent. They fortunately have never had any issues with racism and I just hope it stays that way.

We haven't either, we've lived in Croydon and now in Brighton. DH has had no trouble making friends with the other nursery dads.

I can't help wondering if you aren't projecting your past or your worries into your present. A few times in my life I have had people be chronically rude/pushy/aggressive towards me. I pulled my hair out for weeks or months wondering what I ever did to offend them. It wasn't until I asked around that I discovered these not nice people were just plain unpleasant people, and their unfriendliness wasn't anything systematic, they were just general unpleasant people. My projecting came from assuming that their unfriendliness was my fault. I was bullied as a kid, and victims often blame themselves, it becomes unconscious habit. The part I relate to is knowing that's easy to project your past insecurities wrongly onto your present experience.

It saddens me in 2020 that race is such an issue still.

A teacher friend pointed out that children don't see colour - that is until it is pointed out to them as being something to see or something 'different'.

My children don't seem to see skin colour, its just a part of life just like they don't see gay people as being different.

My 11 year old recently was trying to point out that a character on a show is in another show she watches. On screen was a black man, a white man and just off screen, next to the white man was the actor she pointed out. She described their clothes so I would know which actor/character she meant. As a woman in her 40's this stood out to me that she didn't really see the first difference as being their skin colour but that one had on a blue jacket and the other didn't.

I have hope for the next generation but we adults have to keep fighting against racism in hope our children wont need to.

A teacher friend pointed out that children don't see colour

God, I hope I live long enough to see this phrase excised from memory. What is so indescribably dreadful about a non-white face that white people race around pretending that other faces are invisible?

Fuck's sake ...

I"m a white mum but my son is mixed race.
I completely understand your worries. Until Brexit anf the last few week I would have argued that things have changed since I was growing up and indeed was in a mixed relationship in the 1980s which was quite unusual then. I don't think racism ever went away, it just became something much more subtle.
I do sense more open hostilty now and I worry for my son who is 16.

Do you live in a predominatntly white area ? If you do I would give serious consideration to moving, particularly if it means your children can go to school with children who look like them. I think if your children are the only black children in the school then its easier for staff to pay lip service or minimise bullying.
If a school tells you they have no problems with bullying or racism quite frankly I think they are at best oblivious or at worst lying. Children can and are horrible to each other and will pick on the weakest or exploit
differences. When I was at school I was the far kid with glasses, another child was the ginger one.
What matters is how the school deal with it. My son's school is fantastic, I would recommend it to anyone. He has been bullied for being adopted, autistic and black. The school took every incident seriously, held full investigations, dealt with issues immediately and dished out consequences, including exclusions. The result was that incidents were actually relatively rare and my son felt confident and safe enough to stand up for himself to tell his teachers. It was also a very diverse school, he was far from the only one with a 'funny' name, it has a strong ethos around inclusivity and pastoral care. Im my view it was a far better option than the other options which were far better on paper in terms of academic achievement but were very white and middle class.
Very sadly I think your children are, like my son, going to have to learn to deal with racist idiots. What you can do is to bring them up to have self belief, self esteem and confidence by the bucket load. And try to ensure they are have a diverse environment to grow up in - think very carefully about which schools they go to.

Mixed heritage. My feelings are it depends on what your heritage is and that depends on your treatment tbh plus where you live. We have had negative experience with a few making quick judgements - h is Albanian so is obviously a gangster and we live on a million a week in benefits - but arm your children To stand up and say something to a safe adult as you would with any bullying. I always say it’s the parents rather than the children. As my husband says you can’t change stupids.

Oh and if you have given your children a name that reflects your heritage - our children have Albanian names - don’t think twice in correcting the school until they get it right.

OP, I completely understand. I'm mixed (but fairly dark), as are both my parents. Like you, I had a horrid time at school and some really traumatic experiences and I'm shy and anxious as a result despite therapy.

The suggestion about knowledge, skills, institutions etc is lovely advice.... but.... I had a pretty privileged background - v good private school, extracurricular activities, enriching holidays and visits, RG uni, financially stable parents who helped me buy a flat in a desirable part of London... all of that. But I still have unpleasant comments or interactions from people on the tube or when out and about, or someone in a posh restaurant thinking I was staff, which makes me think that all of that means f* all, because there are plenty of people who will never see past my skin colour and it's completely heartbreaking to come to terms with. You can't overachieve against racism.

I'd suggest making sure your kids are not the only mixed race/non-white kids in their classes if possible, and that they have friends who can relate and understand their experiences. Help build a good support network for them. Make sure your husband understands this too - I get frustrated with white DP for not reading up on it enough to 'get it'.

You can't overachieve against racism.

I completely agree, of course. But I don't think I was urging 'overachievement' so much as unabashed visibility.

Of course Perdita. I think I was saying it as much for myself as well - I used to take a lot of pride in being a good, clever girl and the realisation that that's not enough for a lot of people is hard to swallow. Yes to visibility and letting them have moments of joy. Feeling a bit raw this weekend after getting abuse from a van driver recently and seeing today's news

I think the community and the school is the key. DS's best friend is mixed-race and one of the most confident, popular children in the playground. However, it's worth noting we live in a diverse area and the school specifically addresses racism in its anti-bullying policy.

Pretending these problems do not exist merely allows them to flourish.

PerditaProvokesEmnity said:

"Defenbaker ... I'm sure, I trust you meant well. And I don't want to be unnecessarily harsh, but your post is crashingly tone deaf and wrong on every level.

It is not about beauty. What about perfectly ordinary, plain looking black or mixed race people? Everyone finds their children beautiful but that isn't the OP's concern.

It is certainly not about looking healthily tanned or your horrendously patronising approval of a particular shade of colouring. (It would be better if you never, ever say this aloud again.)"

@PerditaProvokesEnmity there was no intention to patronise, I genuinely like that shade of skin and was just trying to put a positive viewpoint across. As for history, of course I'm aware there is much more to black peoples' history than the slave trade, I just mentioned that as it's become very topical at the moment, so again I was trying to put a positive slant on things for the OP, as people might have more awareness of this going forward, which is surely a good thing.

It was clearly a mistake for me to join in a discussion where I have not lived the experience, so I will stay away from such threads from now on.

I genuinely like that shade of skin and was just trying to put a positive viewpoint across.

Oh God ...