BAME mum with mixed children...

[JJJuice]

DH is white, I'm not. DS due to start year 1 in September.

I have always been terrified of what my children may experience/hear throughout their school lives, I didn't have a good one myself and from those years it has given me a lifetime of anxiety, low confidence and trauma thanks to you if you were a bully, delete your be kind shit posts off your social media. After all the happening of now to stop racism I feel that teachers/mums/other children will be told to be extra careful around them and so on, happens to me in everyday life, that's uncomfortable too. There isn't a win situation and my children will have to go through it. It hurts me so much.

I've seen it happen at the playground, mums fake smiling to me when their DC come up to mine then quickly picking them up to go to another part.
Mums at stores and playgroups staring out my children's differences (hair, facial features) - I stopped attending and left it to DH because I couldn't watch.

Our DC are so lovely, full of confidence and happy now and I'm just here waiting to watch all of that fade.

@lucyintheskywithcz but the simplest explanation is they're all lying, rather than learned racism doesn't exist from a young age?

@namechangegarden

I agree. My children did not notice different colours (well they never said anything about it) until they were about 6.

Then we were at a swimming pool and there was a black family and she asked me why they were brown and we were peach in a genuinely curious way. I explained as appropriately.

Her best friend is of Chinese heritage. She has never really taken any notice except to inform me she doesn’t eat pork as she’s Muslim.

Racism is definitely learned IMO. My favourite film as a child was Coming To America. Of course I noticed the majority of characters are black, to pretend otherwise is insulting, but it was never an issue. I just take it for what it is! A great film. I did notice Arsenio Hall’s Character’s sexist and mysogny though!

@lucyintheskywithcz in my case I haven't had to rely on my child and their teacher to tell me. It happened in front of me quite openly, DD being told she couldn't play because she has brown skin. At the age of 5, from other 5 year old girls.

Why are you so determined to ignore or downplay the evidence?

My school it's pretty obvious. I'm BAME my kids are mixed. My elder DD plays with lots of white girls as does my youngest. Amongst the mums there are very distinct groups - the Indians/South Asians and then the White British. I socialise between the two groups - but the groups never mix.

I also find that young South Asian/Black children are not part of the same 'popular' group of kids.

I have asked to go to things - mum's drinks - night's out rather than ever be invited.

The school does a poor job of celebrating the likes of Eid, Diwali etc no idea when they start RE.

We are considering moving DD to Private School as it's more ethnically mixed - however I think that might bring its own issues.

@dicksplash of course children see colour but to them it’s just colour not difference.

I never said anyone was lying - that is my experience and I was trying to put the OPs mind at rest. You are all so bloody aggressive calm down

*You are all so bloody aggressive calm down
*
That old chestnut, never gets tired.

@lucyintheskywithcz

I never said anyone was lying - that is my experience and I was trying to put the OPs mind at rest. You are all so bloody aggressive calm down

How dare parents who have witnessed racism towards them and their children be upset by it, specially when uneducated on the subject posters on Mumsnet are dismissing their situations? You know that if this was a case of women claiming sexual harassment, nobody on here would doubt that but yet racism? Ah well, they must be imagining it.

Perhaps - shock horror - some people have different experiences to you. Perhaps some people have positive experiences not negative ones and perhaps the OP would like to hear both. Oh no - I forgot we can only say that one opinion is right and everything else is a load of shit with you eh Grey?

I have mixed kids. In my experience the parents saying “children don’t see colour” all have white children and, yeah, if as a child you are part of the default majority group you don’t have to attach importance to it. However, my school-age kid most definitely notices it. Kids notice their ‘tribe’ and how it is treated generally by society at large: how else would sexism and gender roles be so perpetuated? Why is racism such a blind spot on MN?

That makes sense to me @fretnot

I have to agree children don’t see skin colour the way adults do. My child who is 5 does ask me questions sometimes about hair type or a general observation. I personally don’t want to fixate on it and make it seem like he’s the minority (I know that’s not true). But he’s young and I think it’s sufficient to acknowledge by saying things such as. We are all beautiful no matter our colour.

Children will ask questions but when you observe them they will ask and then Quickly forget. Children who are saying racist comments is what that child has been exposed to within and around their own home.

@fretnot racism is probably a blind spot on MN because the majority of posters are probably non ethnic(not to mention well to do) and when you read some people’s opinions this is revealed.

[quote Sweetlikecoca]**@fretnot* racism is probably a blind spot on MN because the majority of posters are probably non ethnic*(not to mention well to do) and when you read some people’s opinions this is revealed.[/quote]
This is so true. Sadly it is part of the problem, just because a serious issue doesn't directly affect someone doesn't meant they should ignore it.

@lucyintheskywithcz

Having lots of lovely friends does not mean that there aren't lots of not so lovely people out there

my son is 16 so has just left school. He went to a good school which had a zero tolerance approach to bullying and harrassment in all forms. He has lots of lovely white friends who don't care that he is black. It didnt stop racist bullying, and having lots of lovely friends doesn't make racism hurt less.

It didnt stop racist bullying, and having lots of lovely friends doesn't make racism hurt less.

This is so true. As a kid I had some lovely white friends, didn't make a difference to other non lovely kids who referred to me a "paki" because it was post 9/11

@lucyintheskywithcz

Perhaps - shock horror - some people have different experiences to you. Perhaps some people have positive experiences not negative ones and perhaps the OP would like to hear both. Oh no - I forgot we can only say that one opinion is right and everything else is a load of shit with you eh Grey?

Perhaps, shock horror, when BAME people tell of their experiences, you could actually listen and learn rather than relying on that old trope of the aggressive person of colour?

@namechangegarden To be fair, words like "fetishisation" and "lusting" are mostly used in the context of describing somebody's sexual preferences.

I stand by the fact that what I posted was a compliment, but I now understand why BAME people may have reasons for not seeing my words in that way, as you have have explained why that is the case.

@lucyintheskywithcz maybe, "shock horror" you could just listen and be supportive when BAME people reach out and discuss their experiences? What you did was essentially dismissing them and them portraying them as an age old offensive stereotype

@Defenbaker

the idea of fetishisation was discussed very clearly in that article, no where does it allude to sexual preferences.

I think I also referred in an earlier post to microagression, can I suggest you also look into that.

Its been explained to you why this is not a compliment, but you say that BAME people MAY have reasons to not see it like that, there is no may about it

I cringe when people talk about “beautiful mixed race children” because I find it so patronising, not to mention everything @namechangegarden said about exoticising and othering. They aren’t interesting little crossbreeds, like you’re talking about puppies. Also - and this is important - it always sounds to me like mixed children are viewed as the acceptable face of “BAME” (I’m using inverted commas because I think it’s quite a dehumanising term), i.e. still - in most cases - half white.

I’m a white mother of white passing mixed race children. When people find out my husband isn’t white I always get that question “where is he from?” which of course actually means “why is he brown? What kind of brown is he?”

@Allington posted:

"so I imagined it when I saw/heard other 5 year old tell my daughter that she couldn't play because her skin is brown?"

When I read things like this, I'm shocked and saddened that racism is still being carried down into the younger generation. It's like we haven't progressed from the 70s. This thread is making me more aware of the issues that BAME people face.

@Defenbaker While I agree that fetish and lust can be used in the context of sexual desire, the beauty of the English language results in those words having more than a singular meaning.

It was a giant leap for you to state that those words implied you are a pervert, they absolutely did not, and certainly not from my perspective.

I maintain that there are many people who would like mixed race children for reasons I can only describe as a fetish, and not a sexual one at that. Black people in general are also fetishised as "cool, exotic, other" again, I don't mean in sexual sense, although this does happen. If you care to search the internet, there have been many articles written on this.

@Defenbaker I don’t know why you keep bothering with certain bigots on this post. Unless you explicitly state “I am white and therefore, racist, evil and utterly ashamed of being white” then you will get nowhere. Trying to understand difficulties by asking questions is not taken to kindly. Unfortunately, those who seem to be most desperate for change to happen are the ones actively standing in its way by refusing to engage in debate and explain their points of view without constantly shouting “you’re racist”. Education and change take time, the willingness to debate and the ability to open peoples eyes to the injustices they may not have witnessed.