BAME mum with mixed children...

[JJJuice]

DH is white, I'm not. DS due to start year 1 in September.

I have always been terrified of what my children may experience/hear throughout their school lives, I didn't have a good one myself and from those years it has given me a lifetime of anxiety, low confidence and trauma thanks to you if you were a bully, delete your be kind shit posts off your social media. After all the happening of now to stop racism I feel that teachers/mums/other children will be told to be extra careful around them and so on, happens to me in everyday life, that's uncomfortable too. There isn't a win situation and my children will have to go through it. It hurts me so much.

I've seen it happen at the playground, mums fake smiling to me when their DC come up to mine then quickly picking them up to go to another part.
Mums at stores and playgroups staring out my children's differences (hair, facial features) - I stopped attending and left it to DH because I couldn't watch.

Our DC are so lovely, full of confidence and happy now and I'm just here waiting to watch all of that fade.

@Whenwilllifebenormal

Defenbaker continues to insist that her words are a compliment even though it has been explained to her what the issue is. I can't see anywhere that she has been called a racist

[quote Whenwilllifebenormal]@Defenbaker I don’t know why you keep bothering with certain bigots on this post. Unless you explicitly state “I am white and therefore, racist, evil and utterly ashamed of being white” then you will get nowhere. Trying to understand difficulties by asking questions is not taken to kindly. Unfortunately, those who seem to be most desperate for change to happen are the ones actively standing in its way by refusing to engage in debate and explain their points of view without constantly shouting “you’re racist”. Education and change take time, the willingness to debate and the ability to open peoples eyes to the injustices they may not have witnessed.[/quote]
This is completely unhelpful to the issue. You are being very defensive on the BLM movement and to accuse BAME people are suggested every white person is racist is a really low blow and quite immature. What's your real issue?

@Whenwilllifebenormal Who has accused @Defenbaker of being a racist? I haven't seen that on this thread.

[quote namechangegarden]**@Whenwilllifebenormal* Who has accused @Defenbaker* of being a racist? I haven't seen that on this thread.[/quote]
I haven't seen any either, I've just seen people offering advice and educational resources. That poster seems very defensive, wonder why that is

I am not a teacher. I am white, my children are white. Last year, when my DD was 6, she came from school and told that they had a new classmate, a boy. Proceeded to tell me that he was very quiet and did not speak much English. I asked her where he was from and she said she didn't know. When asked what colour skin, she looked completely puzzled at me and said: 'I don't know'. I don't think children see colour.

@Ted27 I understand your point of view and enjoyed reading the article which you (I think it was you, apologies if not) posted about MM. As a teenager, I heard mixed race babies regularly described as cute. At the time I didn’t give it much thought and now as an adult, it’s not a topic I’ve heard mentioned or discussed in a very long time. As a result, I had never stopped to think that those types of comments could be viewed negatively or disparagingly. I didn’t understand the history and how mixed race people were treated as a result of this in the past. These are the types of things that I want to learn about the BLM movement. Things I wouldn’t have thought twice about being explained clearly and without labelling me.

My frustration with a topic like this is sometimes the intent isn’t acknowledged. If someone thinks they’re being complimentary, but you think they’re wrong, by all means correct them, but don’t label them. We will all be learning until the day we die.

My comments about being labelled a racist were not about @Defenbaker being called one, but my own experience on this thread. Apologies if that was misunderstood.

@GreytExpectations has called me ignorant indirectly and then immature directly. I will never understand how you think encouraging debate and education without stigmatising someone will be considered unhelpful. As long as this is the case, the BLM movement will never make the progress it desires. You keep saying “the poster is defensive and I wonder why that is” and therefore, alluding to me being racist.

@CommunistLegoBloc Has openly called me racist and ignorant on many posts. Not one person has disputed this. You can’t accuse people who say nothing to racism as being complicit to it if you will stand by and watch someone be called racist for having an opinion on a subject. I have been accused of white fragility for wanting to discuss the issue but not immediately acknowledging I’m wrong and not entitled to an opinion because my skin is white and, therefore, I obviously have no clue.

@Sweetlikecoca Called me mean and offensive and told me I should be ashamed of myself.

Please explain to me what exactly I have said in any of my posts that is offensive, rude or racist. By refusing to acknowledge that (white) people are put off from discussing the important issues at hand due to being labelled a racist if they ask question. Unless we can move past this and encourage people to discuss important matters, I don’t see how we will ever move forward. There is a huge part of the population who haven’t experienced discrimination based on the colour of their skin so how can they understand other people’s experiences if they fear discussing it or having a debate?

My frustration with a topic like this is sometimes the intent isn’t acknowledged. If someone thinks they’re being complimentary, but you think they’re wrong, by all means correct them, but don’t label them.

Except nobody labelled anyone. You came and accused us of calling someone racist when nobody said anything like that. Would you care to address that accusation at all? It was very insulting of you.

@GreytExpectations has called me ignorant indirectly and then immature directly. I will never understand how you think encouraging debate and education without stigmatising someone will be considered unhelpful. As long as this is the case, the BLM movement will never make the progress it desires. You keep saying “the poster is defensive and I wonder why that is” and therefore, alluding to me being racist.

Nowhere did I allude to you being racist. You are trying to find something that isn't there. And yes, you were acting immature. You went and suggested we think all white people are racist. How the hell do you expect to say things like that on the Internet and not receive a negative reaction? If you want to have a discussion and debate you can't make sweeping generalisations and dramatic accusations like you have and accept to be taken seriously.

@Greytexpectations I clearly addressed this at the start of my last post. I suggest you re-read it and stop being insulted by anything anybody says.

Expect* not accept

@GreytExpectations Please clarify exactly what you meant by “That poster seems very defensive, I wonder why that is” if it’s not alluding to me being racist.

[quote Whenwilllifebenormal]@GreytExpectations Please clarify exactly what you meant by “That poster seems very defensive, I wonder why that is” if it’s not alluding to me being racist.[/quote]
That you seemed particularly defensive of posters pointing out your lack of knowledge on the subject and I wondered where that stems from. Jumping to the conclusion of being called a racist is a very large leap, have you been accused of that outside of Mumsnet?

But you have now taken the thread about mixed race children being subject to racism and the OP's concerns all about you. Well done

There is a poster on here @Whenwilllifebenormal that has continually tagged many people. What do you actually have to add to this thread. Most people are sharing their experiences!

Do not speak on white peoples behalf as though you account for ALL. My nana who is white does not speak like you. You have got people’s back up by saying YOU.

However, the attitude that every white person is racist, just means that people are not engaging.

You also stated that you are over the looting but this thread is NOT about that

Like I said why are people looting??? Address the real issues here or are you not bothered because it doesn’t affect you?

This is not an educational thread of you want to know about ethnic culture go on YOUTUBE and order some books from WHSmiths or Waterstones.

Don’t pretend you want to learn when asked a question you bypass the part you feel is not important.

Also you do not have to continue an argument on like a 5 year.

@Sweetlikecoca

There is a poster on here *@Whenwilllifebenormal* that has continually tagged many people. What do you actually have to add to this thread. Most people are sharing their experiences!

Do not speak on white peoples behalf as though you account for ALL. My nana who is white does not speak like you. You have got people’s back up by saying YOU.

However, the attitude that every white person is racist, just means that people are not engaging.

You also stated that you are over the looting but this thread is NOT about that

Like I said why are people looting??? Address the real issues here or are you not bothered because it doesn’t affect you?

This is not an educational thread of you want to know about ethnic culture go on YOUTUBE and order some books from WHSmiths or Waterstones.

Don’t pretend you want to learn when asked a question you bypass the part you feel is not important.

Also you do not have to continue an argument on like a 5 year.

Very well said! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Honestly I suggest other posters do not reply back to that poster.

Other wise the thread will be derailed.

We are here to share experiences and relate to one and other. If you don’t have ethnic kids of close family members perhaps find another thread....

@Whenwilllifebenormal
Thank you for reading the article, I'm glad you found it helpful.
This next point is a general one, not pointed at you.
My son is 16, he is rather handsome (he is adopted so I claim no credit!), he was a very cute 8 year old, buf then most kids are cute.
The other issue of course is that cute kids grow up. They are the same person but no longer a non threatening cute kid. At what point does/did my cute 8 year old turn into something that some people think of as suspicious or threatening, simply because he is black.
When the Knife Angel was in our city and I talked to him about knife crime and racism, he was devastated to realise that just because he is black, tall, strong looking from all the sport he plays, and wears a hoody, he needs to be careful on the street because other people will make assumptions about him.

Ah, my mistake, I understand now. There is one rule for one and another for others. Ironically, it is exactly that that people are protesting against.

@Sweetlikecoca You are, of course, entitled to tag people to reply to them but I am not allowed. Looting in any form in our country is unacceptable. It is criminal. Looting is not necessary to promote a cause. Excusing it is mind-boggling.

@Greytexpectations Multiple people have a debate on a topic, yet I am the only one accused of derailing it and making it about myself because I have replied to others. Don’t kid yourself that your attitude towards me isn’t because of my race. Unfortunately, as attitudes like yours are so prevalent, the current BLM movement is in vain.

@Ted27 I did find the article helpful as it challenged something I merely accepted as, oh they’re just being nice. It’s not something I had given much thought to as it didn’t affect me on a daily basis.

The change from cute 8 year old to people being worried about a 16 year old must be devastatingly worrying for a parent. I have 2 young boys myself and the thought of them being targeted by police or others in society purely down to the colour of their skin is unimaginable. People do make assumptions and this has awful consequences. Equality must most definitely be fought for. If I’m honest though, I don’t know how I would go about fighting for it or contributing to the fight. I would worry about saying the wrong thing. I work with teenagers and sometimes need to do a duty at the local shops after school. It makes my blood boil to see members of the public recoiling at the sight of some of our students as they are dressed as you describe. Nothing is said but you can see the suspicious looks. How do you go about changing something like that? I wish I knew the answer.

Yes @Sweetlikecoca I agree that posters should avoid replying to that poster. Otherwise the thread will continue to be derailed. The point of this thread is to discuss the OP's concerns about her own child and for others to give experiences.

OP, I am not mixed race but I am BAME. When I was a child sadly I did have other kids avoid me, not because they understood racism but I grew up in a predominantly white area and therefore I was "different". Kids do see colour and they may not know what it means, historically, but they understand the logic of "different to me" and sadly I was on the other end of that. My advice is to educate your child, let them know that they should never feel bad about who they are. I am sure they will be OK but make sure they know they can always come to you for a honest conversation if they experience anything untoward. If they experience anyt excluding behaviour or name-calling from other kids, it's worth it being raised to their teachers. I'm sorry if I don't have much advice, I never received any advice for my own situations. It was more of a "it is what it is, just get on with it" attitude and you already sound like a great parent for thinking ahead.

@namechangegarden Thanks for explaining things in more detail to me.

@Ted27 Yes, I will research the subject of microaggression. I feel a bit like a pupil who's been set this task as homework. 😀 Ah well, we're all in a learning curve, me more than most on this subject, having grown up in the 70s, in a mainly white neighbourhood, when casual racism was the norm and the concept of being politically correct barely existed. Times have changed a lot since then.

Ah well, we're all in a learning curve, me more than most on this subject, having grown up in the 70s, in a mainly white neighbourhood, when casual racism was the norm and the concept of being politically correct barely existed. Times have changed a lot since then.

You think not behaving in a racist manner towards other human beings is a matter of political correctness?

having grown up in the 70s, in a mainly white neighbourhood, when casual racism was the norm and the concept of being politically correct barely existed.

My dad who is not white grew up in the 70s and the racism he received was frequent. He had to constantly be on alert to defend himself against the violence him and his Indian friends faced. Times have changed a but but sadly not enough.

You think not behaving in a racist manner towards other human beings is a matter of political correctness?

Very good point, I'm shocked that you think not being racist is "political correctness"

@GreytExpectations Oh the irony! You and another poster both agree and think that everyone should stop replying to me. I thought inclusivity went hand in hand with equality? You also made a point about stopping derailing the thread with things that aren’t relevant to the Op’s original thread. Unfortunately, your last two posts (and many others) don’t follow the advice you gave to me.

I think it’s patently clear that @Defenbaker does not think that not being racist is something that is politically correct. My understanding from that post is that many things have changed since the 70’s. Casual racism was the norm and people would use terms that are not acceptable (politically correct) today without considering that what they’re saying is racially offensive. When I was growing up, people would refer to the local shop as the “paki” shop. Today, I can’t believe that people thought that was okay. As a child, I thought paki was synonymous with Indian. I didn’t understand the negative connotations and how offensive it was. It’s not a term I ever remember my parents ever using but it was normal where we lived.

My mum is Eastern European and my dad is British so I faced discrimination of being told to go back to my own country (as a child I didn’t understand what they meant as I thought, well I am in my country). I was told my house smelled funny as my mum would cook different food. I am white though, so I only really experienced it from neighbours (children on my street) and people we knew. I can’t even begin to imagine being discriminated against and targeted because of the colour of my skin. What I experienced at times was just the absolute tip of the iceberg that many BAME people experienced as a daily thing growing up. I am not the enemy and want to see change in our society too.