BAME mum with mixed children...

[JJJuice]

DH is white, I'm not. DS due to start year 1 in September.

I have always been terrified of what my children may experience/hear throughout their school lives, I didn't have a good one myself and from those years it has given me a lifetime of anxiety, low confidence and trauma thanks to you if you were a bully, delete your be kind shit posts off your social media. After all the happening of now to stop racism I feel that teachers/mums/other children will be told to be extra careful around them and so on, happens to me in everyday life, that's uncomfortable too. There isn't a win situation and my children will have to go through it. It hurts me so much.

I've seen it happen at the playground, mums fake smiling to me when their DC come up to mine then quickly picking them up to go to another part.
Mums at stores and playgroups staring out my children's differences (hair, facial features) - I stopped attending and left it to DH because I couldn't watch.

Our DC are so lovely, full of confidence and happy now and I'm just here waiting to watch all of that fade.

@CommunistLegoBloc Point noted. Wistful is the word, but I see now that my well intended comments were not helpful.

@PerditaProvokesEnmity - you're certainly living up to your name.

I grew up in a predominantly white area I was the the only mixed race child in my school in my infant. Junior school and in senior school one of maybe 5 or 10 children who were not white
But I have not suffered from racism back then or now . Or maybe I simply don’t notice it . I don’t know .
I do know that I am struggling to get to grips with everything that’s been happening as I honestly feel that I have not suffered from racism growing up or as an adult .

I still live in the same area and it’s much more mixed now my old school is probably 50 50 mix
My street is small but we have a mixture of white asian black mixed race families and everyone gets on with each other

However for the OP with regards to how everything is today I would probably move to a area that is more mixed for her kids

@Defenbaker I'm with @PerditaProvokesEnmity here. If you really cannot see how patronising your comments about skin colour, let alone telling a black person they are imagining racist behaviour and attitudes then you really do need to go and educate youself.

Microagression might be a good place to start

I thought the phrase that children don’t see colour means that they don’t differentiate ie they don’t care about the colour of skin in the same way as they don’t care about the colour of someone’s hair or eyes. They would be happy to be friends with someone whatever the colour of their skin or background, it’s only when someone else teaches them about prejudice that things go wrong. They can be interested in someone’s race or religion, it’s only when adults, media, social media etc start impacting on their life that their attitudes can change.

DS goes to a quite culturally diverse school especially for the area we live in. It would never occur to him that any of his friends shouldn’t get a better job than him because of the colour of their skin. However, he is now learning that that could happen and he knows that that is wrong.

Children do see skin colour, unless they are blind, just as they see whether another child is a girl or boy, has long hair or short etc. They make sense of what differences 'mean' from the adults around them. As the white mother of black daughters I completely understand your concerns. I don't have any answers.

There are things within your control to some extent - in choosing where we live, the schools DDs go to etc I deliberately choose places that are diverse. With schools, how many teachers and senior staff come from ethnic minorities (not just the children).

Do they have role models, books and films etc that represent them.

But it does take extra time and effort to educate them about the way racism is replicated, so they know that when they experience racism (which, sadly, they will) they know it is not something personal to anything about them, who they are or what they do.

It was clearly a mistake for me to join in a discussion where I have not lived the experience, so I will stay away from such threads from now on.

How about you stay, read, listen and learn - or is it all about the telling?

Like others have said, I also think a lot of it comes down to where you live.

When I was at school, my classes were always really mixed. We had lots of children with Sri Lankan parents, some with other Asian parents from various countries, some mixed black-white children, some black children, white children, Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, CofE, athiest, etc

We thought it was hysterical whenever a new teacher struggled to read our names in the register.

I'm not black so I can't speak for the black children who were in the classes, but I didn't see or hear anything about people's skin colour or culture or religion. For us, it was just normal that we were from different backgrounds - our parents that is, I think we felt English (or both).

PS I grew up in a London suburb.

PS again

I am absolutely NOT saying racism doesn't exist, I truly think it does. It is an evil we must get rid of.

I only meant that in some areas, there's such a mixture of people that at school there'll be more people with similar backgrounds, so it just seems natural and nothing to be staring at or judging. I think I was very lucky to have grown up in such a multicultural place.

Ted27 posted:

"If you really cannot see how patronising your comments about skin colour, let alone telling a black person they are imagining racist behaviour and attitudes then you really do need to go and educate youself."

I did not mean to be patronising, I was trying to post some positive words. If you read my post carefully you'll see that I was suggesting that maybe the OP's previous experience might be colouring her views, at times. I'll give an example of what I mean. On the news this evening a BAME footballer was asked about examples of racism that he'd experienced, and he spoke about times when he'd held the door open for someone to pass through, and they'd not bothered to acknowledge or thank him. He implied it was racist. I've experienced the same behaviour many times, and I'm white. I didn't read anything into it, I just thought those people were rude, or in a hurry and forgot their manners.

I'm shocked that this happens. Never seen or experienced anything like what OP is describing at all! My eldest DC is starting school this year too and not even crossed my mind for a second that people still experience this. Again may be due to where I live, just outside London.

PicsInRed said"

"How about you stay, read, listen and learn - or is it all about the telling?"

@PicsInRed I'm doing all that, I'm not perfect and I'm learning from my mistakes. However, I won't be bullied into staying silent, just because I have white skin and haven't experienced much prejudice in my life (well, not until this thread, where everything I've said has been twisted).

... I can't believe you've turned a thread about racism into one that centres you as a victim, @defenbaker. White fragility much?!

Educate them and teach them to stand up for themselves in a positive way.

We’re Asian, although I’m convinced my son is mixed race as he is very dark for his birth mums ethnicity. He is only four (five next week!) and he has experienced racist language at school, obviously those children aren’t racist, they are just repeating what they hear at home, sadly due to their parents they are likely to become racist when they’re older.

My son has pretty much figured out his skin is ‘bad’ he has told me and his teacher that it gets him in trouble. By that it means he knows his skin colour causes some children to be mean to him.

Im sorry you had such an awful experience and I hope your children don’t experience anything like that.

Unfortunately, I’m afraid that what you said about other parents/ children being extra careful around you is true. I live in a predominantly white area that is slowly becoming more multicultural. Up until now, the general attitude and feeling has definitely been live and let live.

However, I sense that it is changing. Instead of improving relations, I fear that these protests are just driving a bigger wedge in society. Instead of talking and people being educated, every white person seems to be branded a racist; purely because they’re white. The vast majority will of course, not know what it’s like to walk in another’s shoes. However, the attitude that every white person is racist, just means that people are not engaging. They’re worried about opening their mouths and being vilified and branded a racist. As a result, they’re not engaging and distancing themselves. This means that people will avoid situations that worry them and the divide will just grow even more. I am sensing an attitude of, what’s the point in trying as I’ll just get criticised or attacked? It’s not worth the risk. It’s sad as these protests are having the opposite effect.

@whenwilllifebenormal Can I ask if you've done anything anti-racist? Supported Black causes financially? Offered support or services? Emailed your MP? Engaged with Black art, music, writing, opinions? Because if you haven't, and you're white, you're simply basking in the privileges your skin affords you thanks to systemic structural racism that benefits you. If white people don't rock the boat because the status quo actually quite suits them, then those white people are complicit in said racism. By deciding you don't like what BAME people are saying about white people, you are ignoring their concerns and staying where is comfortable for you. All the while bleating that you're not racist.

Obviously if you have done any of those things then great, and perhaps others reading could do them too.

@Defenbaker I don't want to get into an argument with you so this will be my last response to one of your posts
Its clear to me from JJjuices op that she was referring to incidents much more serious than not being thanked for holding a door open, things that have scarred her life.
Do you really think its appropriate to come onto a thread started by a black woman about HER experiences and fears for HER children and tell her she is probably imagining it ?

I'm sure your children attend nursery at the moment, it's going to be no different, don't worry.
@CommunistLegoBloc I think that's very difficult to do what you suggest if you live outside London (and actually fairly easy and normal if you do live inside London - all of our friends would have taken the children to plays in the theatre in Kilburn).

However I still can't acknowledge even an image of this racist Britain everyone talks about. I don't know anyone who is racist, I can't imagine treating anyone differently just because their skin colour if different to mine and we have a circle of friends who are racially mixed as do my children.

Im beginning to find it slightly offensive to be contunally told I have views that I don't have.

@Whenwilllifebenormal I really don't agree that the protests are making people more racist. I feel if someone doesn't agree that black people are equal that's a question of their ethics and morality regardless of the protests or not.
Many people I know are trying to educate themselves more about the issues of black peoples in order to gain a different perspective. It's about empathy and not seeing others as different to you. It's not hard not to be racist but with comments like yours it makes it sound like rocket science!

Anyway OP if you live in a diverse area you should be fine. I would recommend engaging with the establishment where your child will be attending and asking them directly what they do to promote equality and respect for others. If you feel they don't do enough maybe that's not the right setting for your child.

Perdita, stop 'educating' and stop telling people 'you need to increase your knowledge if you want to participate in this debate'. Who are you to speak like that? Who gave you the right to talk to people like that? This is a forum. People have the right to talk about what they want and, within common decency, how they want. Your own triggers are no-ones's responsibility, world does not have to tip-toe around you and your 'understanding'. I did not see anything racist in Defen post. I absolutely am against racism, but for freedom of speech and expressing one's mind. Your post, Perdita, stinks of 'who is not with us, is against us' and that is horrifying.

Standard behaviour.

If I had a pound for the number of times I have seen white women go misty eyed at the idea of mixed race children "because they are so beautiful", then feign shock when they're told it's not appropriate, I'd be very rich by now.

Then to go on to make personal insults towards another poster who was in no way rude, while simultaneously claiming to have been bullied herself. You couldn't make this stuff up.

@Whenwilllifebenormal it's hard to donate to a charity or fund, read a book, go online and research / engage / read, and email your MP if you live outside London?! 🤯