BAME mum with mixed children...

[JJJuice]

DH is white, I'm not. DS due to start year 1 in September.

I have always been terrified of what my children may experience/hear throughout their school lives, I didn't have a good one myself and from those years it has given me a lifetime of anxiety, low confidence and trauma thanks to you if you were a bully, delete your be kind shit posts off your social media. After all the happening of now to stop racism I feel that teachers/mums/other children will be told to be extra careful around them and so on, happens to me in everyday life, that's uncomfortable too. There isn't a win situation and my children will have to go through it. It hurts me so much.

I've seen it happen at the playground, mums fake smiling to me when their DC come up to mine then quickly picking them up to go to another part.
Mums at stores and playgroups staring out my children's differences (hair, facial features) - I stopped attending and left it to DH because I couldn't watch.

Our DC are so lovely, full of confidence and happy now and I'm just here waiting to watch all of that fade.

@CommunistLegoBloc There you go being patronising again. Unfortunately, you are doing more harm to the cause that you claim to be so passionate about by being rude and dismissive to people engaging with you. Maybe step away as you’re doing more harm than good.

No I don't - charity is about something that means something to you personally and you want to contribute to. I am female so that matters to me. As I said the beneficiaries of my charity donations are mainly black but the colour of their skin didn't come into my decision. If your Dad died of cancer you are likely to contribute to that - it doesn't mean you don't care about people that have MS does it? Racism is not the only bad thing going on in the world you know - there are plenty of charities that need support for plenty of things. We can support what the hell we like without being made to feel guilty because it's not what you support.

I won't 'step away' (patronising pot kettle black) because if people don't challenge views like yours then nothing changes. I'm not going to sugarcoat calling out your biases.

I don't think the above explanation is remotely patronising. She asked, I explained.

Fuuuuuck me yes let's not try to rebalance the scales at all, let's just act entirely in self-interest ed myopic ways and do nothing to correct the horrendous imbalance in our society. Why should men be feminists? Why should they care about our rights? They're not women, so it doesn't matter to them!

Communist - charity is driven by personal views and experiences for the vast majority of people. Many causes want our money and we have to somehow choose who to give it to. I'm sure you do the same whether you realise it or not. This is a pointless argument because I will always donate where I want and that maybe to help after flooding, it maybe cystic fibrosis, it maybe the BHF but I will put my money where it matters to me and I will feel no less guilty not supporting a black only charity than I do not supporting every other charity that desperately needs money

@CommunistLegoBloc What view of mine are you challenging exactly?

I’m sorry you’re so frustrated that people don’t agree with everything you say. I’m also sorry that you were raised to think that the only way to have a discussion on a difficult topic is to belittle and try to one up the person you’re talking to.

Another way to reply could have been the following. You would get your point across without getting someone’s back up and people may pay attention to what you’re saying, even if they don’t agree with you.

“Women are vulnerable and suffer trauma, abuse and difficulties on account of their sex. They are afforded fewer opportunities, more discrimination, health risks related to their sex. There are specific charities and causes that aim to better this experience, elevate the status of women and afford them more experiences in recompense.

In my opinion, the same applies to BAME people which is why I think it’s important to support black only causes too”.

Okay well my personal views are that supporting Black-led / BAME funds and charities is a fantastic and simple way to help tackle racism, which is endemic in our society. Every single one of us is responsible for taking steps to wipe it out. I hope you can think of another for yourself if donating doesn't appeal - there are reading lists online, you can write to your MP, you can support Black art or theatre or writing etc, as outlined on this thread.

Hope you find a way to make a difference. If your immediate reaction is that you don't want to help, or that you don't need to help, challenge yourself as to why that is.

@Whenwilllifebenormal nah I prefer my rhetoric. Snappier. But we'll agree to differ. I only belittle racists

lucyinthesky so I imagined it when I saw/heard other 5 year old tell my daughter that she couldn't play because her skin is brown?

Yes, children DO see differences. And attach the meanings that the adults around them do.

My view is that children DO see difference, and they should see difference.

It's the responsibility of parents to teach them how to respond to differences, and that reaction doesn't need to be a negative one.

@CommunistLegoBloc It is definitely snappier and will most definitely be less successful in changing peoples viewpoints. Once again, you have branded someone who has asked you a question or disagreed with you a racist. So once again you have demonstrated what I said in my initial post. As my dear grandmother used to say, there’s no arguing with stupid. This, therefore, is where I leave you.

Bye! Hope you do something to benefit BAME communities soon and fight racism!

namechangegarden posted:

"It's the fetishisation of mixed raced children that makes it not appropriate to covet them. Mixed race children are no more or less beautiful than any other children, however it's the othering of them as if they are some sort of exotic animal that lusting after them makes it offensive.

Please do read the link @Ted27 posted. It explains this issue much better than I can."

@namechangegarden I don't have a fetish about them, nor do I lust after them. Please don't imply I'm some sort of pervert just because I spoke in a complimentary way about such children.

I read the article posted by Ted27 and have already commented.

@TrollTheRespawnJeremy

I think it’s all down to where you live.

There were no BAME people where I grew up, the area we are in now is a bit more culturally diverse and I think I can honestly say Dd doesn’t notice or care- her friends are her friends. Hopefully your kids will experience the same

Very true!!

@Defenbaker

I don't think that anyone suggested that you personally fetishize or lust after mixed race children
Your use of the word pervert suggest that have interpreted fetish in a sexualised way, this is not the point, fetish and lust can be applied in different ways.
The point here is really is developing your understanding that what to you see as as an innocent complement, is in fact a statement loaded with history and other meaning.
I'd be interested to know what you disagreed with in the article

[quote Whenwilllifebenormal]@CommunistLegoBloc No white fragility here, sorry to disappoint. I know that would make you feel better though.

I’d also like to point out, that as you’re so quick to type and not actually look at who you’re replying to, I’m not the one who made a comment about London even though you have now referenced it twice to me.

Im not over racism at all, I’m over the people who won’t enter into dialogue without accusing someone of being a racist the second they say something they don’t agree with. I’m also over people being violent, attacking others, looting and vandalising property.[/quote]
This is quite mean and offensive. If it was written to point score shame on you @Whenwilllifebenormal.

On observation on MN over BLM people are quick to mention they don’t like the looting etc and that’s fair enough. Let’s be really honest here why was looting taking place? Why is the CORE issue not been addressed? You can make your point that’s fine also comment on the BIGGER picture too. I think by not doing this it’s causing A LOT of conflict.

To add to the thread OP. My mother grew up the 70s and it was quite bad racism having a white mother herself and a black father. Myself as a child I never really experienced racism maybe the odd comment but nothing major. I grew up in a diverse area.

I think in today’s society they are many different nationalities mixing and the children seem more than happy to integrate with one and other.

Racism at school is totally unacceptable I would be making a complaint. I hope it was a one off to who ever posted.

@Ted27 The article implied that the whole of the UK was fixated about Meghan's genetic heritage and that people were overly curious about what her mixed race baby would look like. The writer seemed to think that nobody should be interested or curious about this aspect, but it seems natural that people would speculate as to whether the baby would have red hair, pale skin and blue eyes, like his father, or dark hair, brown skin and brown eyes like his mother. That kind of speculation would surely happen, to a degree, before any child is born, but more so when the parents have very different colouring.

I take your point about the "othering" aspect though, and I now understand why my comments did not sit well with some people.

I see this stuff about ‘harming the cause’ all over MN.

What does it mean? Are people genuinely saying that they’re completely on board with not being racist pricks until they see a protest they don’t like, and then they start to wonder if perhaps racism is the way forward?

Really?

Are you really that stupid?

How embarrassing for you.

A kid is bound to point out skin colour, but surely the right response should be 'yes, people have different colour skin, people have different coloured hair' etc.

A kid has no prejudice at all until they are taught it.

Those saying they are over it, I genuinely believe if your "support" is so easily lost, we never had it in the first place and I doubt we will ever have it.

I'm also terrified OP, im black. One DC is in private school and reception class. I genuinely always thought this would be the best option until I started reliving all the worst bits of being in school (also private and boarding), that I essentially pushed down to basically survive.

I had similar experiences abroad in two different African countries in private school (majority white students and the abuse was even worse down to being racially segregated) when I went abroad for a couple of years as my father was an engineer and we moved around a lot.

I don't know the answer, I can't protect rhen from everything, just teach them to speak to me about everything and if anyone makes them feel bad, and teach them their worth so noone can make them doubt it.

I am so terrified I am literally having panic attacks whenever I think about it. I wish they didn't have to go through this. Why the fuck do I have to explain to my children at 4 or 5 why people treat them differently? It's not my imagination or a chip on my shoulder as posters will have you believe.

I honestly dont have 5he answer OP and am learning and reading as much as I can. Dope Black mums (or dads, not to sure of the top of my head) did a lovely podcast recently on this topic

@lucyintheskywithcz

kids honestly don't care - they don't even notice. They make friends and their friends parents become your friends. I'm sure they will make loads of lovely friends

Ah, I see, my son and his teacher must be telling lies when they tell me all the awful things other children call him because of his ethnicity.

Well I can't answer that Simon because I don't know your son or his teacher

@Defenbaker You had specifically asked me to explain as follows:

Not meaning this in a goady way, but why is it not appropriate to say that mixed race children are beautiful? Why is it wrong, or offensive? Genuinely interested to understand why this could be deemed offensive.

I took the time to set out for you some generalities on the ways that mixed race children are viewed by people, and your takeaway from that paragraph is that you are being implicated as a pervert???

If you really do want to learn more about racism in the UK, I suggest that you don't centre yourself in any discussion about it. When people talk about behaviour that isn't appropriate, don't immediately take a defensive position and assume it is a critique of you personally. The fact that you are still resolute that what you said was complimentary shows that you are don't understand the history behind the issue, while simultaneously claiming that you can now see why people may find it offensive.

I was typing my message, and not reading the thread at the same time, which is why I hadn't seen that you had already read the article when I suggested that you do so.