What would put you off becoming close friends with another woman?

[JungleRaisin]

I’ve never been able to manage to have a close friendship with another woman. Not in primary school, high school, sixth form, uni, or work.

They always see ‘be yourself’ but that clearly isn’t working for me. Makes me sad thinking I’m always going to have to put on a fake persona of normality if I am ever to make any female friends :(. I don’t know exactly what I’m doing wrong,

Please tell me your pet peeves in other women during the first convos that would put you off pursuing a close friendship with them? It seems faulty universal among women so any pounders would help.

I don’t massively struggle with getting male friends but I guess they don’t spot the social faux pas as much as women do.

I’m described as chatty, witty, always friendly, too nice (I.e everyone thinks I’d never lose my temper) but also a little cold so if I’ve any real bad traits, people clearly aren’t telling me about them. I think I am fairly intense and ask a lot of questions about someone’s life even on day 1 but also over-share about myself a bit.

Any tips?

Thanks for the kind ones saying I should just meet like minded people - I've met people far and wide and seemed to always struggle to make friends with any females (never get into fights etc. either with them, just always goes no further than an acquaintance) so I'm fully aware I am the common denominator in all of this and need to make the change.

The sentiment of "You shouldn't need to change yourself to make someone like you/befriend you. Just be yourself" sounds fair and reasonable in principle but considering that approach led to me to zero close female friends, I really can't go on like this anymore :(

JungleRaisin what sort of interests do you have? Walking? Any sport or arts? Are you involved in any local groups? Even beach litter picking or food bank helping may find you a kindred spirit. Or a ukulele group. Obviously all these are once lockdown is over. But online and Facebook are good places to befriend like minds. I made a very close friend on an art group amd we met up. She lives in another country but we get on great. Totally opposite personality wise.

Moaning, stressy, stealth or overt boasting, boring or too quiet, talking too much, racist, fuckwitted bigoted opinions, expectation that I’m keen to look after their children.... you don’t sound like any of those things though!

With the siblings question, twice I’ve been asked this by a friend of a friend, it’s obviously her go to and she didn’t listen to the answer the first time. So there was a kind of lack of engagement with my answer particularly as I had to go into the fact my brother died and I have a huge number of step and half siblings, some younger than my own kids. So maybe rather than firing questions take a bit more time with each one and give some of yourself back to make the conversation flow instead of moving onto the next one.

You shouldn’t be firing questions at people regardless of if you’ve just met or not. It’s rude; you’re not on an quiz show and it’s not natural conversation.

Conversation ebbs and flows. You don’t need to fill silences; silences are natural too.

Small talk is how people communicate, particularly when they’ve first met, so you need to stick with that and participate even if it makes you feel bored.

And no, intensity does not build as people get to know each other and grow closer. Nobody likes being around someone intense.

What does “a little cold” mean?

Chatty, witty, friendly and over sharing (I like over sharers personally ) doesn’t sound cold?

Cold I would think of someone reserved who was polite but never dropped the facade iyswim. Doesn’t marry up with the rest of your self description?

@minipie Yeah it's a paradox and hard to describe. I guess I can err much more towards the intellectual side of things than the emotional side is what I mean by cold. Like if someone was upset and was crying about a problem, I'd show my care towards them by giving them advice on how to solve their problem rather than hold them in my arms etc. (as I know I'd much prefer advice to fix my issue than someone just cuddling me but I feel most people are the opposite - they'd rather a listening ear and a cuddle instead of unsolicited advice). I'm much more cerebral than emotional which makes me come across quite cold. Also if I someone tells me something shocking, I can't do that "exaggerated shocked OMG" thing that a lot of women can do - I feel embarrassed and weird doing that that - which makes me seem cold. I always start thinking of solutions for their shocking issue :/

Stop thinking of solutions. You’re right - people don’t want unsolicited advice.

When someone shares a problem, they just want comfort and a listening ear.

Yes. Offering solutions might be helpful a bit later but at this stage you don't know what the person's already tried and dismissed, and then she's having to expend energy responding to you. Comfort them and save the suggestions for later on.

That’s very interesting. You’ve made a good point there because you’ve identified a key element of attunement which is an essential part of building relationships. It is about giving empathy as opposed to advice. So someone presents with a problem, don’t jump in with advice, but instead reflect on their feelings, say I bet that made you feel awful or however they seem to be feeling and then give them space to talk about it more.
I have a counsellor friend and she’s a fantastic friend but very much the fire questions and give advice type. Sometimes she’s giving great advice but it’s exhausting because she’ll start telling me stuff and I’m not ready to hear it, it’s too soon. I want the sympathy and empathy first. Because actually I know what to do usually but it doesn’t mean my feelings disappear because of that knowledge.

Life has taught me this one harsh lesson; overly effusive women are not to be trusted. As my husband says, “if you are genuine, you don’t need to gush at people”

Ha I’m the same. I have plenty of female friends but no “best friends”, maybe that’s why. The women I get on best with tend to be pretty clever and enjoy quick banter, lots of self deprecation and sharing fuck ups, and (occasional) intellectual debate. We don’t really ask each other personal questions, the information comes out as part of conversation.

And I get the faux shock thing. The more someone wants it the less I’m inclined to deliver, particularly with my mum who worries and panics but wants me to worry and panic in the same way and keeps pushing her emotionally charged theorising and rhetoric to try and get a reaction. Saying that, I do think a genuine gasp or show of emotion to something upsetting someone has told you shows empathy. Eg my friend told me she’d found out her husband has cheated the initial one is a genuine physical reaction of my own to mirror hers and I express it to show the empathy.

@HannaH021 glad you've got through it! I'm working very hard to manage it but like you say, there are times when it creeps up on me!

@JungleRaisin do u recognise that jumping in with an advise might not be the right way to approach ppl? Or do u see it as "them" and "me"?
I was once like that, i found it strange to try to empathise with ppl and acknowledge their feelings... I feel that i've come very long way and i'm really proud that iv overcomed the awkwardness i felt about it.

Everything begins with recognising our flaws and where we can better ourselves. Ppl who say be yourself most certainly dont mean dont better yourself.

I definitely agree with not giving advice that hasn't been asked for! I have a family member who's a lovely person, but if I casually mentioned that we were thinking of having a holiday in Spain, she'd start sending me links to various places! Same with problems, she'll immediately start finding me solutions.

The upshot is that I don't tell her much anymore.

Same with asking too many questions. Asking ppl general things to find out more about their interests is fine, but don't delve too far until you know them better. Most ppl don't want to over-share with someone they've just met. Try to find a common interest/general topic and talk about that instead.

Above all, don't worry about not having female friends. Keep being friendly but casual and it may happen. You're not going to bond with everyone, but it may happen one day e.g., I have a group of female friends through DD's school. We get together periodically, but I'm only close to one of them, the others are friendly acquaintances. She and I just have more in common and "get" each other, IYSWIM. I didn't try to become close friends with her, we just clicked better than with the others.

I agree with a pp you havent found 'your people' humans are so complex what might annoy or put someone off of pursing a friendship another person might love, some people have enough friends and dont want anymore whilst others have none at all and are happy that way as they arent very social.
Where as some are social butterflies constantly making new friends.
We are all different.

We are all different.

Yes. I see people recommending ‘Tell me about yourself’ as the ideal conversation starter but if someone asked me that out of the blue my initial reaction would be a few vague generalities while I decided whether I actually wanted to tell them anything.

Jungle I wonder if it might help you to read up on why small talk is important. It has a really important phatic function: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression . Like apes grooming each other, talking about the weather is how we build social units.

Thanks everyone so far - each post is really helpful. I'm glad I made this thread. I've had a lot of engagement on here and no rude, overly critical "put me down" posters, which is great.

@Karwomannghia Yeah I know exactly what you mean.

Yeah I totally realise that giving advice when uncalled for is something most people cannot stand. I find it hard to wrap my head around that concept that. If I told two people the same problem and one of them just nodded along and gave me a cuddle and the other gave me advice on what to do, I'd much much prefer the second person.

I almost get annoyed when I get no actual advice when I share a problem with someone and don't know what to do or feel conflicted so always do it to others thinking I'm being helpful as I'd feel I was being useful and they'd regret confiding in me in the first place.

Though I agree that worse than no advice are people who shove their advice down my throat and insist that is the one and only way to fix the issue (so more a command than a gentle "maybe you coud....")

I really need to train myself to get better at just being a listening sponge. This is probably the crux of why people like services like samaritans where they don't give you advice but listen only and pets (e.g. dogs), people love confiding into them (more than even humans a lot of the time) even though they obviously won't give you advice. I've never seen the appeal of either samaritans nor a pet as they won't respond back but most of society does so I reckon I'm the oddball.

I certainly don’t want a ‘listening sponge’ as a friend, or an equivalent of a pet or the Samaritans. I choose my friends because they’re interesting, clever and funny, not for their silent listening skills. Or their advice, either.

@Mlou32 I appreciate that but I certainly don’t feel it! I’ve no idea how to make friends and I’m probably a lot of the things people have said is negative, so not sure I have any chance

My friends are my friends because we:
Share the same interests
Have the same sense of humour
Have been through quite a lot of shit together

My closest friends now, the ones I have Zoom drinks with most weeks & who know we can all fall apart on each other, I met through feminist campaigning.

Not that I’m citing that as something that would necessarily work for you, I don’t know you well enough, but common interests are a huge help and get you past the initial thing of what to talk about.

i have more male casual / chat to friends than female - easier to keep it on a high / non commitment level.

however my true friends, my life friends, are amazing women and they all have one thing in common - either they or I went through a significant / challenging time together and we were there for one another - that's what cements it for me and that's why women are by far the best of friends (apologies for lumping one entire sex into my statement but true for me).