What would put you off becoming close friends with another woman?

[JungleRaisin]

I’ve never been able to manage to have a close friendship with another woman. Not in primary school, high school, sixth form, uni, or work.

They always see ‘be yourself’ but that clearly isn’t working for me. Makes me sad thinking I’m always going to have to put on a fake persona of normality if I am ever to make any female friends :(. I don’t know exactly what I’m doing wrong,

Please tell me your pet peeves in other women during the first convos that would put you off pursuing a close friendship with them? It seems faulty universal among women so any pounders would help.

I don’t massively struggle with getting male friends but I guess they don’t spot the social faux pas as much as women do.

I’m described as chatty, witty, always friendly, too nice (I.e everyone thinks I’d never lose my temper) but also a little cold so if I’ve any real bad traits, people clearly aren’t telling me about them. I think I am fairly intense and ask a lot of questions about someone’s life even on day 1 but also over-share about myself a bit.

Any tips?

There are several things that would put me off becoming close friends with someone,man or woman.

The first one would be if they give me the 'once over',i.e. look me up and down every time they see me. My (now thankfully) ex sister-in-law used to do this and I found it most off putting and very judgemental. I felt like they were giving me their 'approval',or otherwise.

If they are extremely high maintenance. I don't mean that they just take care of their appearance,I mean they think that if you don't go to the hairdressers at least once a month,don't get your nails done every few weeks,or get a full body wax every month that you are slovenly.

Never letting me get a word in,i.e. they talk AT me rather than TO me.

If they are unnecessarily rude to people,e.g. waiters or shop staff.

Asking too many nosy questions right from the off,but giving away very little about themselves.

Asking to borrow money when you've only known them five minutes.

And finally (please don't flame me for this one) if they are deeply religious. I don't mean that being deeply religious in itself is a red flag,I have a very good friend who is a born again Christian. I mean if they insist on shoving it down your throat every time you see them,and make it their mission to 'convert' you to their religion. I am not at all religious,I would go as far as saying I'm an atheist,and I find it highly off-putting if they feel the need to preach their religion at you all the time.

Phew!That's quite a list! I hope I haven't made myself sound too picky! I do actually have quite a few very good friends who meet all these criteria!

I think that's a reasonable list @ALongHardWinter I don't think I do any of the things you mentioned except the talk "at" people if I'm particularly stressed or excited about something and definitely the asking lots of questions thing (I guess I seem like I don't give much away as they often won't ask me the same question back so I think they'd rather not know so it's more of a reservation thing) - what kind of things would you personally think are "nosey" questions?

JungleRaisin I think the sort of questions that I would think are nosy (ones that people have actually asked me!) -

Why did you only have one child?
Why did you get divorced?
Why aren't you in a relationship?
Why do your medical conditions prevent you from working?

These are all questions that I'd be happy to answer once I've known someone for a while. But when they're thrown at me literally within an hour of first meeting them,I find them a bit intrusive.

Oh just thought of another one. When I get asked if one of my male friends is my partner.

Hi Op, I must wanted to say thanks for posting this thread. I have a real problem in making and maintaining friendships with women and have found the responses on this post really useful. I suffer from social anxiety, am on a waiting list for an asd assessment and make lots of social errors. I really struggle to understand social nuances and seem to give off an anxious and slightly desperate energy which really doesn't help matters! I recommend watching videos aimed at autistic people where actors role play out various social scenarios. They've been really useful for me and have helped me to notice some things that I do at times such as oversharing or talking at people. Good luck with it all and be kind to yourself. You sound like a lovely person and I'm sure you'll meet the right people for you soon

'Just wanted'

Self obsession. I have many long standing close friends Male and female. But self obsession and I include unmasked fir advice in that. People who only listen while having a future trying to control with what they're going to say next.

The type of things someone may do or say in the first few meetings that I would consider intense would be:

Making an obvious bee line for me
Staring at me
Interrogating me rather than talking to me
Asking for my number/email
Asking too many personal questions to try to find out EXACTLY where I live and EXACTLY where I work
Asking my age
Asking where I went to school/what my parents do/where I grew up to ascertain my background

I’d never expect the intensity to increase as the friendship builds; it shouldnt be intense - it should be breezy.

if moments of silence appear in a first conversation, then fall back on small talk topics such as current affairs, the weather, holidays, local history etc.. Small talk oils the wheels of conversation as it relaxes people due to the very fact that it is boring/predictable. Its a safe way to suss people out. By skipping it, you’re making people feel uncomfortable.

I agree with others who say watch some YouTube Autism tutorials on smalltalk. They’ll explain the need for it and how to interact with people generally.

Dont forget, the main point of social interaction is to put people at their ease. Call me a snob but Ive found that quite often, people who went to private schools are particularly good at this. It takes practice. I didnt go to private school by the way.

That really helps @PerfidiousAlbion I’ve probably done all of these things (You would have avoided me like the plague!) though not within convo with 1 person but collectively across different people first encounter convos.

It’s funny - I always thought more person means more likely to have a close friend and breezy small talk would only lead to acquaintances. Almost laughable it’s the opposite! @PerfidiousAlbion

I like a wicked sense of humour, someone genuine and friendly. I am chatty and friendly but often lack confidence getting past that so I like it if someone invites me first then I’ll be braver. I’m put off by pompous types and find those who just have no opinion on anything a bit of a wet lettuce.

Friendships develop over time (mostly).

You stat off with small talk and then gradually, over time, you each reveal a little more about yourself. Do it too soon and you risk making the other uncomfortable.

Where do you go/what do you do at the moment in order to meet people?

@Greenpop21 I agree, a shared sense of humour and a friendly, chatty manner are always winners for me when it comes to friends.

I always thought more person means more likely to have a close friend and breezy small talk would only lead to acquaintances. Almost laughable it’s the opposite!

The problem with this approach is that when you first meet someone you're a total stranger to them, and people need to know they can trust you before they start sharing more personal things. That means being confident that you're not going to turn out to be a judgemental gossip, or a stalker who constantly bombards them with messages and gets annoyed when they don't reply immediately, for example.

When we make small talk with acquaintances, the point isn't really to analyse what the weather is like or the traffic. You're right that from the point of view of the actual conversation content it is quite boring. But it's a way to test whether our social expectations of one another are correctly calibrated before taking the risky step of opening up more: if over time I have a number of casual conversations about the weather with an acquaintance and they don't throw up any red flags, there's more of a chance we can (gradually) progress towards a real friendship.

If we're making small talk and the other person says something like 'yes, my sister feels the same as you' then that's an indication that they're comfortable talking casually about their family. At that point I might ask a few questions like how many siblings they have and whether they have children, and share similar information about myself. Now we've stepped up the friendship level slightly, and so it progresses a little bit at a time to the point of talking about more personal things like our anxieties or relationship issues (for example). At each stage you kind of go through a similar process of testing the water and calibrating accordingly, and not every friendship gets to the point where you talk about absolutely everything.

On the other hand, if in my opinion we're still at the 'weather talk' stage and the other person transitions to intensely personal questions, that's a sign that we're not abiding by the same set of social rules. Similarly, if we're talking about the traffic and they go off on an unprovoked sweary rant about women being shit drivers then that's also a sign we're not going to get along well as friends. It's a lot easier to politely back off from a new acquaintance if you find these things out at the small talk stage, than if you're already in a proper friendship and have to explain why you no longer want to hang out.

Women may be more sensitive to these social norms than men, for a few reasons. Women on average will have more experience of random strangers not leaving us alone than men do, so we're more likely to back off from someone who's being too intense initially. We're socialised to be more polite, meaning if a friendship gets difficult it's harder for us to tell someone to leave us alone, so we might be more inclined to nip it in the bud before it gets to that stage. That might be why you notice a difference between talking to men vs women.

That got really long, sorry I hope it made some sense though.

Yes that makes a lot of sense @psychomath

Thanks :)

Great post @psychomath

Yes that is a good post psycho.

I think some of these skills are learned in childhood. My mother taught me a lot of the above I was 🙄 at the time as a 13 year old but with hindsight very valuable skills. She also modelled excellent social skills herself and is still the most popular person I know. Her retirement do was in a large hall and it was standing room only. I and my siblings have good social skills despite being state educated (mum went to public school and think she was determined to “fill in gaps” of us not !)

Honestly, the idea that attending a private school inculcates natural good manners and conversation-making ability is about as true as that other well-loved Mn myth, that the ‘genuine, old money’ upper classes are invariably kind and affable, as they potter humbly about in rags in their battered old cars covered in Labrador hair, while new money screams with misguided snobbery from behind the wheel of its badly-driven giant white 4x4.

MsT makes good points, making friends is a skill and if you come from a family where your parents find it easy to make friends then you probably find it up much easier to ‘pick up’ on those skills subconsciously. My parents are 87 & 89 and have so many friends (although sadly a lot are dying now) but my DM makes huge efforts to keep in touch with people, she is always phoning others to make arrangements (or just chatting at the moment!); she’s always had a wide arrange of friends and got involved in lots of different hobbies, Volunteering, groups and activities. My DF is the same, still organising his Uni reunions.

Like others I do think friendships grow from having mutual interests, we’ve moved round a lot and I always throw myself into local groups (even the PTA which I know is always scorned at on Mumsnet) and find it easy to meet lots of new people ... some will develop into good friendships, some will remain acquaintances.

But neediness is really off putting, I do meet a lot of people like that who just want to latch on and be a ‘bestie’ without letting a friendship develop naturally.

I think emotional intelligence and good social skills are a huge advantage and enable those that possess them to have a happier life. Unfair but true.

My then 6 year old turned to another parent in the playground when there was a lull in the conversation and asked if she had any nice plans for the weekend. She is my mother reincarnated andat 12 she “carries” adult conversations when they go awkward. My work is done.

It's a common feature in aspie women (disclaimer:not all aspie women etc), alongside other ways you describe yourself, so that may be something to consider. My female friends tend to be on the spectrum or have aspie traits, diagnosed or not, and we 'get' each other in a way I never really 'got' other women.

I agree with others on several things:

Going on and on about themselves whilst showing virtually no interest in me. or very token interest. Not remembering anything I've said.

Loud, sweary or attention seeking

Boasting

Being very keen to be competitive on the cooking, dressing, make up front.

Spitefulness or gossiping about others

Views which are stuck in the dark ages (racist, homophobic, judgemental)

Foisting their political opinions on me constantly and expecting me to agree with them

Never reading books or taking an interest in anything cultural

Not listening

General selfishness.

Also under sharing. I had a great friend many years ago who I really liked, but she never told me anything personal. It was all very surface stuff. I wondered why she didn't trust me enough to be more honest.

People who are not reflective, self aware or interested in learning new things or developing on a personal level.

Materialistic people who think having lots of stuff makes them a better person.

Boasting or being whiny in the first few conversations would put me off. I don’t like pushiness either, people that can’t hear your ‘no’.

People only like me when they get to know me better so I’m in your boat. I have lots of friends though, just not so many lightweight ones. People who want to be with the cool kids wouldn’t pick me!

NameandGamechange your post really resonated with me. My family background was fairly dysfunctional and like with leaving things early not to impose on others, I never feel able to call someone ‘just for a chat’ but always having to have a purpose for intruding on them (and setting out what my reason is, as the opener). I always check with people if they are happy to talk now if I call, because I am scared of intruding. It’s well meant but maybe it comes over as needy or insecure and maybe puts up a distance between us. Or they think I’m clearing the path for a load of chat they wont want. I second the PP who says therapy should help. I am building up to that.

I only have a few female friends and none are close friends. I find it harder to get close to women.
Obvious makeup is something that puts me off someone - partly cause it's just so different in outlook to myself who wears none. Same with fashion - I can't be doing with people who follow fashion like it matters.

My closest friend is male and the connection is far easier in my opinion.