What would put you off becoming close friends with another woman?

[JungleRaisin]

I’ve never been able to manage to have a close friendship with another woman. Not in primary school, high school, sixth form, uni, or work.

They always see ‘be yourself’ but that clearly isn’t working for me. Makes me sad thinking I’m always going to have to put on a fake persona of normality if I am ever to make any female friends :(. I don’t know exactly what I’m doing wrong,

Please tell me your pet peeves in other women during the first convos that would put you off pursuing a close friendship with them? It seems faulty universal among women so any pounders would help.

I don’t massively struggle with getting male friends but I guess they don’t spot the social faux pas as much as women do.

I’m described as chatty, witty, always friendly, too nice (I.e everyone thinks I’d never lose my temper) but also a little cold so if I’ve any real bad traits, people clearly aren’t telling me about them. I think I am fairly intense and ask a lot of questions about someone’s life even on day 1 but also over-share about myself a bit.

Any tips?

OP, its interesting that you have more success with male friendships than female ones. Do you think because you’re ‘nice’ with women that there’s a chance that you come off as inauthentic? I say this as you stated that you’re direct and outspoken with men. If thus is your real personality, then trying to be nice with women may come across as inauthentic.

Have you had any feedback from your mother, aunts, sisters, school friends or college / uni friends?

It’s very hard for us to diagnose you here.

Have you ever taken a personality test? E.g. Myers Briggs. That may be a starting point.

Completely agree @Honeybee85 - I’ve seen even in other threads, posters saying someone is a liar simply because they themselves had not experienced it as if all humans experience all the same things.

@PerfidiousAlbion I probably do come across a little inauthentic (too nice) perhaps with women but would that be enough for all women to not want to befriend me at all? If I was fake in a number of ways like disloyal, dishonest etc, I’d get it though but I’m not. I do get what you mean though. I have done the personality test before many times and I’m an ESTJ.

@jungleraisin all other posters have given great feedback so far. I would also recommend reading a book called How to Win Friends and Influence people.

It was originally assigned to me while doing my masters but I've turned to it time and time again when I need help with a social situation or a friendship

@JungleRaisin

One of my closest friends is a gorgeous woman, very slim with perfect skin and very glamorous. She is an immigrant in my country of origin and apart from me, didn't manage to make one female friend since she emigrated over 15 years ago. She is one of the most kind and loyal people that I know so I absolutely believe her when she says women often perceive her as a threat because of her looks. I have also noticed how a former female friend went out of her way to make fun of me / acting bizarre when she introduced her new boyfriend to me. Even went as far as telling him in front of me that a guy that I used to date secretly tried to go out with her (she had never told me that before!). It was clear she treated me as 'competition' though I absolutely wasn't interested in her boyfriend other then to get to know him and see if he was good to my friend.

Competition over looks is a very real thing sadly and it's not misogenystic to acknowledge it's ugly existence.

The women I don't click with are

-Those who talk about themselves constantly

• Those who continually let you know that their dc is better, at everything, than yours
• Those who can't let go of Mothers apron strings and bring mother along to every meet up
• Anyone who is false

Traits that instantly make me back off are:

Having to be centre of attention constantly
Bitching about others a lot
Competitiveness
Controlling types

I think you’ve got something quite basic to think about.

What do YOU think friendship is? What do YOU want from a friend?

Friendship means different things to different people, or even to the same person wrt different people. There’s no right or wrong definition.

I have friends who I value for their insight, experience, knowledge. Friends who I value because we have a shared history (and who, really, if I were to meet them now I probably wouldn’t be friends with). Friends who I enjoy because they’re funny and it’s easy to pass the time of day with. Friends who make me calm at a stormy time, or who soothe and reassure.

It may sound like I have a lot of friends, but honestly I probably only have two or three true friends. These are women who have seen the worst and best of me, who fulfill all or nearly all the above role - and of course vice versa. They’re hard to find and as I get older they take time to look after (time well spent, so crucial!). I’ve had them as friends for two or three decades and I hope we’ll be friends for more to come.

So maybe ask yourself what you want from a friend. Maybe you don’t care for a listener, a soother, someone with shared experiences. Maybe you want an intellectual sparring partner, someone who makes you laugh, someone with shared interests. You might not find everything you want in one person, or maybe you will.

The fact this has been your life since primary school points towards the empathy thing for me. I don’t think you lack it, because your posts are perceptive and complete. I think you might not see the utility of it. And that’s fine! But it means you’re looking for friends who feel the same way. Interesting that men as easier friends for you than women, in this regard.

Anyhow, I think you sound lovely and interesting and actually someone I’d quite like to have in my deck of cards!

@Honeybee85 it is enough to see comments about "attractive women r hated on" to know it exists, because as a matter of fact, ppl dont just type what they perceive, but also how they feel fowards things/ppl themselves.

@HannaH021

Yes you're right. Though I might feel insecure next to my gorgeous friend, I never felt to avoid her or make her feel bad about herself. If anything she inspires me to lose weight, try the nice blush she uses etc. I think it really depends on the person

I struggle to understand how some women with far less than ideal personalities have been able to attract close female friends

Thats why I said up thread all these tips are pointless. Someone can be loud, nosey, rude, mean and lazy but if they have that charisma that makes them enjoyable to be around, people will be friends with them.

I don't think it's so much the case that women don't want to be friends with attractive women, more that there's a certain type of attractive woman who is quite looks focused and conducts herself in a way that's quite image focused and a bit superior, which aren't pleasant traits for a friend. It's not their looks that put people off being friends with them, but they probably conclude that women hate them because they're pretty (flicks hair and goes to find some men to be friends with because men are 'so much easier to get on with')

Gorgeous women like Honey's friend will be beautiful inside and out, so people will want to be friends with them.

If they are unreliable. It drives me mad.

Oh I forgot - what would put me off would be if they were giggly and stupid around my husband. Then I would show them the door!

(I didn't use to be like that but sadly have learned the hard way)

I think ESTJ’s are renowned for being a bit bossy and rigid & lacking in empathy if memory serves me correctly. Does this sound like you?

I’m also agree with the magnet/repeller theory that states that people are either one or the other, no matter what their personality, hence unpleasant people having friends and the abundance of lovely loners.

Briggs Myers has largely been debunked hasn’t it?

Apparently yes it has but I still feel it holds weight for typing, just not for deciding someone’s job success or future career.

I'm exactly like you, I've had barely any genuine female friends in my life. 90% have been backstabbing, too gossipy or I just haven't had any similar interests. Also maintaining friendships with other females is too much hard work and I have always just gotten on with guys better. I have a pretty large family and a long term boyfriend so don't have time to invest heavily in new friendships and friendships with other females always seem forced. I just seem to naturally develop friendships with males instead. I don't know if this helps, but I have aspergers and a high IQ and have often felt I can't connect with typically 'girly' behaviours.

I have male and female friends. I still think it’s harder to make friends with women. I don’t know why, on Mumsnet, a large group of posters pretend that women aren’t bitchy/hard work/etc

99% of the posters on here have listed why they wouldn’t make friends with a female. Do you think a man would ever give that list?! Men don’t give a stuff !

It’s a fact that women are more bitchy and gossip more than men. Male friendships are different than female friendships. Fact. Women always argue with friends or piss each other off, moan about female friends for the most pettiest reasons. You rarely get that from men.

Like I said I love all my friends, male AND female. But let’s be realistic.. women are a lot more needier and emotional than men (in general) which is why a lot of gossiping and bitching goes on

I’ve never had a man go “omg did you see what Karen was wearing the other night” and roll his eyes.

That says far more about your tendency to gross gender generalisation, and the unpleasant women you choose to have in your life, @Loveablers.

My female friendships mean as much to me as my family relationships. They have been an incredible source of enjoyment and support to me. However, it wasn't always like that.
Prior to having children (and then becoming a single parent) I'd have been one of those women who said they found male friendships easier.
A more feminist analysis of male/female social behaviour really changed my perspective. It hasn't damaged my male friendships but made me revalue my female ones more highly and consequently they are much better relationships.
OP - do you ever ask other women to meet up for coffee/do something together? You wouldn't be the first not to make a suggestion due to not wanting to impose. Trouble is, if the other person is the same...

Second the neediness and bitchiness. The main reason most of my friends are male

Those men you think you just get on with so much better are quite probably trying/hoping to shag you:

www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-and-women-cant-be-just-friends/

Op you sound similar to me and I have less tolerance for friends and their BS, I hate friends that moan about their partners constantly, and I don’t mean small things like leaving the loo seat up, I mean major things like cheating, being a cocklodger, having their own income but not contributing financially, and they moan and moan and yet won’t get out of the relationship, I’m getting less tolerant of this and one of my friends tells me all the bad stuff about her man and so i will say things about him in support of her and then she goes and tells him what I said!

She always likes to be the victim and she was apart from him for 5 years and got back together with him, maybe it’s the usual ‘low self esteem’ excuse but I am sick of hearing her crap now and ‘woe is me’ stuff, she is 49 years old and knows bloody better so my sympathy has waned.

I have actually been ignoring her for months now because of it.

I am also quite blunt and so don’t tell me your issues if you don’t want my advice because I’m not one to blow smoke up people’s arsses and I hate the same thing being done to me! I think I’m just one of these folks that needs a friend every now and then to talk too but I’m very much beginning to be a loner the older I get and I have no idea why.

I have always said, and it’s been said to me, that I get on better with males and not because I’m a woman that is threatened by other females and all that shit but I think more like a man at times and that has been said to me before.

Maybe I’ve just had lots of bad experiences with females, including my own mum, so I’m off females but then I’ve had bad experiences with men too but I just find men easier to get along with sometimes and you don’t have to worry about their emotions and feelings all the time like you do with women!