To those who keep saying the “economy will recover”

[Sadie789]

And who think focusing on the economy is “money over lives”.

Please can you explain to me why you are so relaxed about this, because it affects every one of us.

This won’t be a UK recession, it will be an unprecedented global recession.

People already have lost their jobs and will continue to lose their jobs long after lockdown is over. Well into next year.

If you lose your job you need to claim UC. UC is paid for with taxes. From people who are earning money in jobs.

Taxes also pay for the NHS. Not just the NHS that is treating COVID patients. The NHS treating cancer patients, kidney patients, heart patients, brain patients. The NHS that also keeps thousands of private companies afloat as they sub services and procure resources from them.

Tax pays for just about everything else we take for granted in our daily lives from housing for millions to keeping rubbish from overflowing our streets to keeping the street lights on.

Let’s put the wider issue of how the economy runs to the side and look at individual livelihoods. People say you should have savings to cover emergencies such as these current rainy days. But this rain is unprecedented and affects us all.

DH and I have about £16000 in savings. We both work in roles that are looking very uncertain right now. If we both lose our jobs those savings will last us about 4 months realistically. If only one of us does it will last 8 months. Til the end of this year more or less. When our industries will both still be in an uncertain state of flux. Just get another job you say? What, like thousands of others in the same boat?

When the savings run out what do we do? We’d have to sell the house. There’s some equity in there but it will go down dramatically as house prices drop. Who will buy our house? If we do sell, we will need a mortgage to buy a new one - who gives mortgages to two unemployed people. Could we rent? The equity would soon run out and then who pays for the roof over our heads? So on, and so on.

The economy is about money and greed I hear people say. Lives are more important. Yes they are. But the people saying this in the context of a blase “the economy will recover”, I genuinely want to know why you think an economic depression will not affect lives?

Only the rich are worried about businesses going under is another one I hear.

Let’s see. My neighbour has his own company doing lighting and rigging for theatres. His wife has a wedding dress shop. No one is paying them furlough. They are both terrified.

Around me are a fishmonger who supplied hotels and restaurants. A nursery owner. A pub owner. A mortgage advisor. A friend is a pilot, his wife cabin crew. Another has been running a small childrenswear shop for 22 years and says this will be her last month as she’s bought thousands of pounds of stock (last year) for summer that she has to pay for along with the rent etc. Her business is finished. My hairdressers have shut up shop for good. Our main shopping centre has lost Debenhams, Oasis, Warehouse, all in a month.

Please tell me - this is a genuine question - how you can be so nonchalant about the economy if that is what you truly believe?

@blue25
If your job is that secure, you have a choice of staying home indefinitely. Il
What are other people supposed to do whose jobs are taken away? Do we have to fall into poverty to keep mortgage free financially secure population safe?
Funny that, there are thousands of vulnerable people with underlying conditions who never stopped to work. They have a mortgage or rent to pay and their children need to eat. They have no choice, but they are still lucky. They have a job... still

I am fully aware that this is a huge deal and will take the economy years to recover - but I can't let myself dwell on it and become stressed. I am an anxious person who's faced difficult times when my future has been uncertain (such as a cancer diagnosis). My way of coping with stressful, uncertain times is to not think too much, to live in the moment and take each day as it comes. Today my family is healthy, we can pay the mortgage and we have food on the table. I will think about tomorrow when it comes.

What else do you expect with this bunch of morons in government? I came to terms with the fact we can expect a lot worse than this from them over the next few years.

Johnson missed 5 urgent meetings about the government's response to the pandemic, how relaxed do you think he'l be about the economy in comparison? as long as their dickhead friends from Eton get their slice of taxpayers money he wont give a shit.

This obviously won't be decided by anyone on here wanting to lockdown forever. Hopefully the Uk government has some more sophisticated modeling in place to model the effect of different strategies to relax lockdown.

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking not in my case.

“ When people are released from lockdown they will spend again and boost the economy. ”

What with? The super rich will be fine. The rest of us won’t.

As for the world link - I don’t just blame the UK for locking down. But America and Sweden tried to make the economy less of a problem.

Money or the economy really couldn't interest me less I'm afraid, op. I'm entitled to my view, just as you are entitled to yours and I'm respectful of your view.

They don’t really care, OP. People have a reason for this kind of attitude- they have no worries about what their children’s lives will look in a month or two. What will they eat and where will they sleep.

^^Bullshit. Just because people aren't dwelling on the worst, doesn't mean they aren't worried or scared. Most of us have no choice but to stay positive so that we can get through the day.

People are choosing to ignore the questions I asked because they don’t have an answer (and are likely either blissfully furloughed, public sector, or retired and paid up, or unemployed anyway).

Say I’m panicking or a misery if you like. I’d call it realism. But nonetheless what I was asking is for those who think concerns about the economy are about money over lives which is a mantra I see repeated often on here, I would like to know why you think everyone’s life is safe under a global depression?

More, and younger, people will die under those conditions than will die directly of COVID19.

Panicking doesn’t help. We need people (who can) to have the confidence to spend again today help us out of this. Spreading panic is dangerous and will cause more issues.

@SallyWD exactly. I am not dwelling on uncertainty because it will not help me or my family.
I am more worried about my dgs who is worried that when he goes outside he may get the virus and die. My dil actually took him to the farm where she keeps her horse and let him kick a ball from a distance to his friend there because she was so concerned.

You are also ignoring questions, Sadie789. Don't you think the effect on the economy something the UK government has considered? Still they haven't relaxed lockdown yet because it is not possible at this moment.

“People are choosing to ignore the questions I asked because they don’t have an answer (and are likely either blissfully furloughed, public sector, or retired and paid up, or unemployed anyway).”

Hah!

My job doesn’t exist now, it won’t do unless there’s a vaccine or everyone catches it...

Still doesn’t change the fact that it’s the virus causing it and not the “lockdown”...

I suggest people listen to this radio 4 podcast 'a cure at what cost' which discusses many of these issues
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000htrs

56% of UK jobs can't be done from home. Any chance the people you've spoken to are in the 44%?

I think it's easy to be more positive when your job is in a safer industry. For example if you were a delivery driver or plumber then you will be more relaxed about your job compared to someone who works in a hotel or pub.

I think that the economy will recover. In the short term some industries will crash eg airlines but once people are more confident about the security of their jobs I think that they will book for next year.

I have seen small businesses adapt to the new normal and think that they will help drive recovery. For example a local Italian restaurant now does takeaways and sells fresh pizza dough kits so you can go home and make your own. The local taxi firms will pick up your Click and Collect order at the supermarket. I realise that not all industries can do this but there are probably new businesses that the country needs to recover from CV.

My dh is the financial director of a huge well known company whose manufacturing side of the business has stayed open whilst most employees are working from home and some furloughed. It's a successful international business but orders have inevitably fallen and the decision was made yesterday that 25% of employees are going to be made redundant. That's hundreds of people. Who are just at home right now thinking everything is just fine.

They are waiting for the announcement on Sunday but there doesn't seem to be any other way.

The others are right about not thinking about what you can't control. Boris will tell us what happening next regardless or what me as an individual thinks

What's your 'realism' going to achieve though OP? What is you getting your knickers in a twist and expecting the rest of to as well actually going to achieve? Nothing! Absolutely nothing.

You're not suggesting anything we should be doing, you're just saying you're fed up of people being 'relaxed'. What do you want?

You're getting a little offensive also saying people and being blissful. They probably aren't, they just can't actually do anything about any of this. We have lost 50% of our income and we just have to get on with it. There isn't anything we can do about it right this second because we're not even allowed out really!

If you start suggesting what use this worry is of the economy 'never recovering' is actually going to achieve, I'm happy to listen more and take your suggestions on board but right now you seem to just want people to panic

Have you seen the queues when Costa/KFC/McDonalds reopened in various places? I think that we will see that replicated up and down the countries once they are all open. People are queuing 1.5-2 hours to get into B&Q!!

would like to know why you think everyone’s life is safe under a global depression?

This wasn't your original question but ok. I'm sure no one thinks that everyone's life is safe in, I assume you mean, a great depression.

But, the world had no choice but to lockdown, obviously. Can you imagine the death rate if we hadn't? It had (and still has) to be a balance between saving thousands of people and the short/medium/long-term economic consequences.

I chose a public sector role knowing I’d get less pay but more security.

You and your chap chased the money, that’s your lookout OP.

“What's your 'realism' going to achieve though OP? What is you getting your knickers in a twist and expecting the rest of to as well actually going to achieve? Nothing! Absolutely nothing.”

Firstly, it helps with planning. Don’t even waste potato peelings.

Secondly, there seem to be a lot of people on MN who want lockdown extension with no idea of how taxes actually work. Or how council accommodation works if they lose their home.

I'm not panicking, because I can't do anything about how long it takes for the economy to recover or about whether the government 'chooses money over lives' or vice versa or for how long they continue the lockdown. On a personal level I'm not panicking because dh and I are both teachers and pretty unlikely to lose our jobs.

“ I chose a public sector role knowing I’d get less pay but more security. ”

No guarantees though.

For the love of god, expecto patronum