DD is so unhappy at school. Don't know what to do.

[MayorMumbum]

Some of you may remember my panicked threads from a few months ago about DD and her school situation. Sadly we're in a bad situation again .

I had to remove my DD from primary school for the last six months of year 6. She was getting bullied very badly and had lost all confidence and developed trichotillomania as a result of the stress (pulling her hair out). She is still having issues with severe anxiety/insomnia even now.

We home schooled for a while then moved house to give her a fresh start and managed to get her in to a good high school with a good reputation just in the nick of time. I had really thought things were going to be okay.

It has been a nightmare. She has been bullied by various different children from the first week. She broke down last night completely and said she cannot deal with the stress/noise and the constant fighting. She explained she feels like the year 7 "victim" . And yesterday for no reason a boy ripped her headphones out of her ears and phone on the bus. It really shook her up.

I'm beginning to see some signs that DD may be on the autistic spectrum, namely Aspergers. There's a lot of it in our family and she seems to fit many of the symptoms so I think she's struggling for several reasons.

She hasn't made a single real friend and spends most lunchtimes alone. She is incredibly unhappy and I really think this will be the same issue no matter which school she goes to. She just isn't coping emotionally and I don't know what to do.

She is beautiful, kind and academically advanced but no matter what I do/she does, she never seems to make friends and she is being constantly verbally abused/harassed. I've been on the phone to the head of year seven times since September who basically told me "I can't force children to like her".

It's breaking my heart .

My ds with asd left high school with PTSD, if I could have that time again I'd remove him... he confidence and mental health have been absolutely trashed by high school and I think it's set him back so much.

I know it's easy to say remove her and I know with work etc it's not that simple but if you can do it! Maybe ask school about a reduced timetable? If she's only on year 7 this can't happen for the next 4 years.

I'm no expert but my friend (we are both Governors at school and my friend us the link Governor for SEN) has a dd who is high functioning autistic with Aspergers.

What you say about the noise bring very stressful for her really rings a bell for me.

My friends dd is in Y8. She started Y7 very well and made friends, my own ds included. However when Y8 came about the noise stress just impacted on her too much. She's refused school ever since and her mum is currently getting her assessed fir a EHCP and hopefully a place in a SEN school that will meet her needs. She's highly intelligent, just really unable to cope.

I urge you to investigate further with your GP, or does the school have a good SENCO?

I'm a Sahm so work wouldn't an issue

If she were diagnosed with Aspergers would a place at a school for children who struggle with mainstream education be a possibility?

How do I approach the Gp about this?

I just wanted to add that my own dd spent the whole of Y9 struck with anxiety, migraines and general illness. She was really unhappy. Luckily it's all changed for the better now (Y10).

I do understand how worried and desperate you must feel.

I would ask the SENCO at school about the process and also go and see the GP. Start the call rolling.

Just make sure you tell them over and over that your DD is academically advanced. One of my UK friends have a DD with Aspergers and when they talked about her struggling with mainstream education the GP, the SEN people all assumed she was very behind academically. Your DD is struggling with the environment of a big noisy school, not the educational or academic aspect. You do not want her put in a special school that caters for children who are struggling and very behind academically. That’s why a small independent school for academically gifted children or online school would probably be a better option.

There are many children being home schooled now ,and I think it would be best for DD by the sounds of it ! Noise levels and stress in a secondary enviroment ,would amount to overload for many children especially if on the ASD spectrum. Can you afford a Tutor at all? maybe for English and Maths? Schools tend to go for the average children a lot which means anyone a little "different " may struggle .

Hi OP, my son is currently being assessed. He is only 3 and I have been told by everyone we have met during the process that secondary school without a diagnosis is horrendous but with a diagnosis, a child can stay in mainstream school a lot of the time and cope if the school are able to meet the childs needs. An educational psychologist gets involved and holds meetings to ensure everyone feels the right support is in place.

If I were you, I would pull your DD from the school, home school her for the foreseeable and go to your GP for a referral. With the GP, you'll need to explain in depth about her sensory aversion to noise, the hair pulling out, everything basically and get your DD to really drive home just how much she isn't coping. Assessments take a long time but along the way, you'll meet professionals that will help and you'll also be given information on groups your DD can join where she can meet other people with suspected or diagnosed ASC that she may be more comfortable around and able to make friends. You'll also get information on groups you can go to and speak to other parents and carers about what help they've been able to access.

It sounds like the right thing you've suggested that you need a diagnosis for her before she can return to mainstream school or she may even get a place in a smaller school that is aimed at being able to meet her needs.

I'm surprised that the school haven't made a referral yet but this is maybe a sign that they aren't cut out to cope with children that perhaps have SN's?

I would withdraw her without a doubt. Home schooling for secondary is nowhere near as daunting as you would think and I guarantee there will be others in your area that can offer support. In the meantime, if you use FB I recommend joining a group called School Refusal Support services, you will feel much less alone. Incidentally a large proportion of school refusers are either already diagnosed with ASD or go on to be. Whereabouts are you, roughly, OP?

I can't help with any practical information but wanted to respond to your proposal to home school until year 10/11 and then switch schools.
In my view, this is the very worst time to switch schools: GCSE content already well underway, kids working hard and firmly in their groups etc.
Perhaps start of year 9 might be better..

I'm in the West Midlands, near Walsall.

I could have written this when my daughter started high school. She was so desperately unhappy, low level bullied, hated the noise and disruption in the classes. I started to suspect asd, from reading similar threads here. We took her to a private ep and she was diagnosed with asd. We didn’t go through the gp because of the very long wait, she wanted and needed to know.

She now goes to a new school, which has small classes, which are streamed, and in her class the behaviour is very good and the children well behaved (top set). She still comes home from school exhausted, because having asd, it was described to me as being bent out of shape all day and she needs an hour alone time to recover.

Reading and learning everything we could about Asperger in girls, attending talks locally, helped us to help her no end. There no way I could have left her in that school, in fact we took her out to home school, just as a place became available elsewhere.

Schools can be seriously crap places to be. What workplace would tolerate "random attacks"? Would we as adults tolerate that situation? The school should not be so casual about it.

My DGD is on the spectrum (in a very minor way) and has found school very hard. Noise troubles her as your DD. She has a bolthole room where she can take her work - the school has been very supportive. She also has a card that she can show to the teacher if things are getting on top of her too much.

Maybe you can get together with other home schoolers and create a curriculum for her. She cannot be sent into this jungle every day.

I have to say that it irritates me more than a little that some schools accept bullying (which is what these random attacks are) as part of the rough and tumble of school life.

She sounds like my dd who has autism.
Get onto the SENCO today. Go in and see them ASAP. You don't have to have a diagnosis for the school to act as if she has autism and you don't need a diagnosis for an EHCP. If school are unable to meet her needs then that should help with the EHCP. Look at the IPSEA website for info on the process. Either you or school can apply.
Also seek a GP referral for the ASD. That won't be quick though so concentrate on the EHCP.
You won't get a specialist school without an EHCP but be aware that there is little provision for clever autistic girls :(

Oh and don't withdraw her because that's easy for school. Have her to the GP. They can't sign her off as such but it buys you a week or two of absence to get them to take notice.
Look at the fb group Not Fine In School.

With regard to GCSEs, there are no rules about when or even if they have to be taken. In our HE groups, many, many children study for just one or two at a time, beginning at age 12 or 13 with the subjects they enjoy or are strongest in. This way they can be spaced out and the pressure is reduced so much they actually enjoy it
If work isn't an issue I wouldn't hesitate. There is HE support in your area.

I have home educated (not schooled) 4 children through secondary. 2 of them are autistic, one has dyslexia, dysgraphia and ADD and one has an anxiety disorder. My kids were almost entirely self directed. I acted as a facilitator, buying books or resources, and explained things if they were stuck. None of them did exams or traditional qualifications. 1 is now a marine ecologist, 1 is at college doing sound engineering, one is at uni studying biomedical engineering and the youngest wants to go into computer science (he has never been to school at all.) I have been home educating for 16 years now. It isn't as difficult as you think and it removes the stress from your child and prevents any further damage being done

My kids followed their own interests and apptitudes, tried different things to see if they liked them and all have a very eclectic education. It has done them no harm at all. When they reached the stage where they wanted to go further, the older ones went to college on access courses without any difficulty at all.

I think, in your situation, that I wouldn't hesitate to withdraw my child from school. It is doing her more harm than good at the moment and the damage could end up permanent. Especially if she has ASD.

Jennifer secondary school without a diagnosis is horrendous. Well in our experience anyway.

I have a DS in year 8 with suspected ASD, very similar to your daughter - bright, gentle and finds hard to make friends. He had a mostly very well supported journey through primary but was bullied everyday by a boy who joined in year 6 who used to hit him and others everyday and laugh. Last time was with a tree branch over the head repeatedly then pointing and laughing, thankfully school acted so didn't need to home school.

We moved areas in summer before year 7 as old area was full of big schools and also it meant could walk to school now. He's year 8 now and still doesn't have any friends - just asked me to organise a peopleless birthday party. He's a lovely gentle boy, its sad. But school has improved quite a bit other than that and he's doing brilliantly academically and goes everyday and comes back smiling.

What helps him is no journey - think school buses can be quite bad for bullying - is there anyway you could pick her up maybe not just outside school but 200 metres down road for a while? We've had SENCO involvement and Ed Pscyh - I had to phone LA SEND team to get Ed Pysch involved - it's worth a try even if they didn't help in past. He had reduced timetable to start with so missed some lessons and went somewhere quieter. There's often a support hub. He gets exemptions from a lot of detentions related to autism which helps a lot. At lunch ask school is there's somewhere quiet she could go if she would prefer that, maybe the library. There will be other children like her in school it's just finding them. My son does science club. The similar girls I know often spend lunch reading. It's so hard not knowing the other children too. The school maybe able to offer some support like a child in a higher year. We haven't got anything though I've not especially raised friendship as an issue. It's sad as he had three good friends at end of primary. He stays on the edges of groups but we are struggling with the friendships. He now has a pet which helps him a lot at home and as soon as he's home he collapses on sofa and the pet collapses on top of him and they snuggle together.

I don't really know with home ed - it wouldn't be right for my son as he would never leave the house but depends on child. I also don't think I could teach him as well as school do in all the subjects. He would just try to do maths 24/7.

It's worth investigating other schools in your area and seeing if they could meet her needs better, you don't need a diagnosis to get into a special school but getting the required EHCP can be quite a battle. In our area there aren't suitable special schools as he's very academic - we have one school with autism cabins though you do need a diagnosis for that. There's also a specialist state maths and science school which only takes 75 per year which initially thought ideal but talking to them they said no TAs and no money for SN so think he's better staying put. Hope you find a solution.

How do I approach the Gp wrt a referral?

I would have one final try to see what support the school can put in place. I know in our school, DCs who are on the spectrum and struggle with noise are allowed to wear headphones in class. DCs who are anxious can sit in reception and read/colour/draw during breaks. Or they can choose to go to the library and help the librarian. Our school is also open to DCs having shorter days when they're struggling (because they'd rather they were in school than school refusing).
Change your approach. Instead of going to the school about bullying (because tbh the comments you have mentioned are common place in school settings and schools seem unable or unwilling to stamp them out) focus on your DD needing additional support. See what's available and then decide if that will make enough difference to help your DD.

I think my plan is to set up a meeting with the HOY/Senco people at her school and get her to the Gp.
If things gave worsened/not improved by Christmas then she won't be going back for the new year.

By all means get a diagnosis but school can put exactly same support in place without one - I've been told this by several Ed Psychs and the pediatrician. Support is needs based not diagnosis based.

Having a Ed Psych involved helps with support as they plan a strategy and it's also pretty much instant here (well a month or so). Schools often give reasons for not helping - there's no money, you need a diagnosis etc but you don't. Our school did this and I called the LA SEND team who said they can't say this and sent an Ed Pysch in and phoned school and we got support. In primary we had a full-time TA at one point with no diagnosis and autism strategies where followed which resulted in no TA needed year 5 and year 6. We have had regular Ed Pysch involvement and assessment who all suspected autism. Takes 2 years in both areas to get autism assessment and by all means do it - we started then moved but 2 years was too long for us to wait for help then he got better then we moved. I would still get assessed but diagnosis doesn't come with help attached. Resources are really tight and we've been lucky and I've battled a lot to get what we have. In our area school does autism referral forms. Our GP refused. Old area was via GP.

She may also be able to wear earphones in class via SENCO - my son also sits at front for quiet. In primary he preferred to sit by door. He's also allowed to leave when things get too much. He' supposed to go to support hub but even that is noisy so tends to stand in corridor. One thing we are up against is there is no quiet rooms at all.

Punxsutawney, yeah we've been told a child with ASC going into education without a diagnosis or at least under an educational psychologist is hard going and more so at secondary school. The thing is, the only reason our DS was picked up on so young is because he has a bad speech delay. I feel bad for parents where there's no obvious signs in the younger years and things only become obvious when the child is in school and struggling. Children that are in secondary school now as well weren't always given the chance to be diagnosed or get help in their younger years either compared to today where HV's etc are really looking for the signs. They used to use terms such as high functioning but we've been told they don't use those terms now but my DS's speech therapist has said she believes that there's lots of 'high functioning' kids in schools receiving no help because a lot of it is just put down to anxiety and not a non NT condition. She said our son would be described as high functioning if they still used those terms and likely aspergers if they also still used that term but it's all ASC they use now as apparently using high functioning and those terms meant some children weren't being considered for support if they were 'high functioning'