What exactly is ‘family admin’ ?

[LuckySeventhWave]

I have a calendar on the fridge door. If there’s a parents evening, after school club or dentist appointment I write it on there.

It takes about 12 seconds.

What are mums doing that warrants ‘time set aside per week for family admin’?

Lola so the issue is using a wanky phrase then?

I mean the stuff still gets done,whatever category you put it in . It doesn't suddenly disappear. And shit can be hard and overwhelming whether you call it life stuff , parenting etc or family admin.

For me it's doing the paperwork for dh self employment. Pay the bills that aren't direct debit. Lots of appointments at ds school.. Almost weekly.

So “mental load” is acceptable but “family admin” isn’t.

Arf.

"mental load" is an established and widely used term in social sciences.

"Family admin" is a phrase used largely on forums by those seeking to complain about how busy they are.

whiskey
My issue is the wanky phrases almost always (in my experience) goes hand in hand with an overall attitude of 'look at every little thing I do... I'm so busy'.

Life can be tough and everyone has ups and downs, but most people don't make a big fuss about entirely normal life things.

Like the example from an old thread when someone who was in the "big fuss family admin" camp tried to argue that they're so busy because they have to keep the family photos organised.

It's the home life version of workplace fussers who need to rattle off every little thing they do during the working day and generally give the impression no other person has anywhere near the work they have to do (usually in a team where everyone has their own work to do).

The photo issue is a big one if you care about photos! Fair enough if you don’t want to keep photos or take v few anyway - takes zero time, but IF you care, it can take lots of time and/or money (if u want to pay a lot to iCloud).

It’s like saying - what’s the big fuss about wedding/kids activities/hobbies/holidays/social occasions. These could all be cut to minimal and make life a lot easier.

Personally from a non-academic/social science viewpoint I consider ‘family admin’ the physical manifestation of ‘mental load’ - ie the exact tasks you carry out to achieve your family life goals (eg working household appliances, no unknown outstanding bills, space on my phone to take pics of my kids!)

Oh yes indeed, you silly little wimmin complaining about your trivial little tasks!

Don’t you know that it doesn’t count as Real Work unless you are paid to do it or its done by men. When it suddenly becomes Really Demanding and Time Consuming work done by heroic fathers and husbands who deserve a medal .

I think the rattling is because while mental load threads are generally sympathetic, friendly,commiserating and a spirit of "we're in this together ", the family admin(which whatever you call is part of the mental load) ones tend to be sneery,judgemental "what do you do all day" ones.

It will generate defensive and "rattling" responses as posters use the lists(sometimes unwisely) to fight back against the assumption they are boring,unorganised,lazy etc women.

It will generate defensive and "rattling" responses as posters use the lists(sometimes unwisely) to fight back against the assumption they are boring,unorganised,lazy etc women.

I agree with this. The best response to patronising “what DO you do all day?” threads is “none of your business, you creepy weirdo”!

I see what you mean whiskey on the difference in threads. I think mental load tends to attract a more rounded debate.

Whereas I'd never take the view "what do you do all day" and find some of the comments earlier about how stuff takes 12 seconds to be ridiculous (though some people are totally more efficient than me!), but find that the "family admin" tends to go hand in hand with that attitude of 'look how much I do'.

It's that whole attitude that grates on me because I generally think everyone has their own troubles and struggles and pressure points so when someone is of that "but I'm so busy with family admin" attitude I feel very 🙄 like 'great, you and eleventy-billion other adults'.

LolaSmiles

Or rather one is a phrase you use, and one isn’t

It must be exhausting to get worked up by what other people use to describe their day to day lives!

Nope.
Neither are phrases I use.

Just one tends to be used when people are taking the fussy approach making a big deal out of doing basic life things and the other isn't.

Just one tends to be used when people are taking the fussy approach making a big deal out of doing basic life things and the other isn't

But who cares. Why does it matter if someone likes to feel busy and overwhelmed? It’s just such a nothing.

It doesn't stop the drama llama fussy attitude being irritating.

Lots of what people have said on the workplace annoyances thread are smaller things, but people still find the behaviour irritating.

It doesn't stop the drama llama fussy attitude being irritating

It’s just such a small thing to be bothered by.

But then maybe I’m less stressed out because I devote time to “family admin”

I think it's different between the workplace and home , one defines being more underrated,unappreciated and "invisible " .

While in the office the look how busy I am stance has advantages like actually doing less work,or being noticed and promoted,getting a raise etc. in the home , look how busy I actually am tends to be a reaction to "what did you do all day" either from the husband or forums/society. Not to mention that it's rare that someone notices and appreciates all the little things being done,precisely because they are done.

And while there can be an overlap between the people that do it at work and the people that do it at home, I think a bit of empathy for the people that are struggling with life wouldn't go amiss.

But then again the biggest chore on my daily to do list is having to call my mum. So I might be rather biased.

whiskey

Actual struggles I empathise with. We've all been there.
The "poor me" task listing at any opportunity is just emotional vampire behaviour where it's draining for everyone around them.

Three kids, both DH and I work full time in demanding jobs. We set aside time every Sunday to consider schedule, how kids activities impact the family.

Honestly it keeps all the load falling on me if we delegate together in a non stress moment. Otherwise DH complains, I do it all and resent him. It keeps me from having to take on all the mental load.

Planning makes it all better.

Personally from a non-academic/social science viewpoint I consider ‘family admin’ the physical manifestation of ‘mental load’ - ie the exact tasks you carry out to achieve your family life goals (eg working household appliances, no unknown outstanding bills, space on my phone to take pics of my kids!)

and

• Oh yes indeed, you silly little wimmin complaining about your trivial little tasks!

Don’t you know that it doesn’t count as Real Work unless you are paid to do it or its done by men. When it suddenly becomes Really Demanding and Time Consuming work done by heroic fathers and husbands who deserve a medal hmm*

sums it up for me.

TooStressyTooMessy

I agree.

Some people object to the phrase “Family Admin”. Is it acceptable to call it “crap”? Or occasionally “Fucking Crap”. As in “I’ve got a load of fucking crap to do.” Or “I swear I’m drowning in fucking crap”. Which is super convenient as it can then also incorporate the endless stuff that my children seem to spread around the house. And not at all wanky.

Although maybe slightly awkward if one of the kids says “what are you doing mummy?”

When it suddenly becomes Really Demanding and Time Consuming work done by heroic fathers and husbands who deserve a medal hmm

Oh no it doesn't.
Men who act like they've done the world a massive favour by taking the bin out or washing the dishes also need to get a grip (and people should stop bloody congratulating them, see also fussing over men who "help" with the children Vs being a proper parent).

That's my objection: there's no need for "poor me, give me a medal and a gold star for booking the service / hoovering the rugs". The vast majority of the time nobody needs a pat on the back for basic adult tasks.

I like the phrase “family life organising shit”. Although it takes me more than 12 seconds to do so perhaps I am doing it wrong.

I used to be really disorganised.
Always that stressed out late mum with kids in odd socks without the right form filled in for school. It was embarrassing and not fair on them as they started to become more aware.
I just started writing everything down. Things like making sure they each have euro for collection day. That's the sort of thing that woukdtrip me up, no change in the house, having to find parking at the shop buy something I dont need, with a card I'm not sure has money in it, in order to get cashback in coin. Late again. If DS is having a friend round after school, making sure I have the one brand of chicken nuggets he will eat. Loads of little bits like that.

It actually does add up. It's not rocket science BUT it takes thought, planning and effort. None of which come naturally to me.

But things run a lot smoother now, and we are all much happier.

That's my objection: there's no need for "poor me, give me a medal and a gold star for booking the service / hoovering the rugs". The vast majority of the time nobody needs a pat on the back for basic adult tasks.

It’s not the individual tasks that are hard or onerous or unpleasant. It is the sheer volume of them. And the knowledge that if I forget one, if I drop a single ball, then one of the kids will lose out and I don’t want that to happen.

I have a vague theory that sheer level of admin relating to children is proportional to the square of the child’s age. It definitely works for my two. Dd (9) requires about 2.5 times the amount of admin organising than ds.

Hopefully it starts reversing at some point. I’m pretty sure I don’t require 1600 * the amount of admin as a 1 year old for my parents. Maybe secondary school?

So maybe the formula is:-

Max(Min(Age, 22 - Age),1)^2

toostressy
I'm sure I could meticulously plan for hours and never get into the 12 second camp.

Such is life. We all find our ways to get shit done.