What exactly is ‘family admin’ ?

[LuckySeventhWave]

I have a calendar on the fridge door. If there’s a parents evening, after school club or dentist appointment I write it on there.

It takes about 12 seconds.

What are mums doing that warrants ‘time set aside per week for family admin’?

You sound lucky rather than lazy Hepzibah!
I'm very lucky I don't have a child who is unwell I grant you that. There are some minor additional needs but nessecary adjustments have become part of life.
I have a pretty small food budget actually but it's not complicated to just go and buy meat, vegetables, bread etc a couple of times a week on the way home from work or Saturday morning. I cook what's in the fridge, I don't waste anything.
During football season matches etc are constant and I go to as many as I can. The ones I can't go to, well one of the other parents takes dc. We have a whatsapp group and share lifts anyway.
I work full time sometimes and sometimes not (26-42 hours a week) but both primary and secondary schools have had easy parents evening bookings. Besides at secondary it's once a year so not often!
I do think I choose to ignore quite a lot if stuff and always have. Years of being a working lone parent meant that I disregarded anything that was going to add work or stress, and I have just continued with that philosophy. I'm sure lots of people have more complicated situations (ill or elderly parents, I can already see, will add a lot of admin tasks and I know I have that coming) but for most people with young kids there's no need to make a meal of every little thing.

ill or elderly parents, I can already see, will add a lot of admin tasks and I know I have that coming

I have one elderly, but still active father and one sick mother in law. ,y mother in law is going through another round of chemo at the moment so there are lots of days hanging around the hospital with MN and my laptop. There are bits and pieces of paperwork, but it's not too onerous, but then we don't have any care agencies or adult social services involved. They tend to create the most paperwork and as for things like attendance allowance - that's a pita but once it's done it's done. It's being there that is the biggest time commitment to be honest.

See I don't see a need to "make a meal of every little thing" either, but nor do I accept that no work is involved in having children, or a house, or a pet etc. There is practical work (cleaning the bathroom, hoovering, shopping) and there is admin stuff (done on paper, or the phone, or the internet). It still all adds up doesn't it?
If I have a run of small tasks at work, they still add up to an hour of my day. The fairies don't do them for me.

Leigh I found it was getting different services to talk to each other that was the biggest black hole for time. Once that happens then things start to get a little easier, until the next thing. But these things have to be done don't they.
There's no point moping around like nobody understands and we're the first people to ever have these pressures.

lola yes, that's the main cause of stress indeed. However, I'm very lucky that I'm a physio and my dad is a retired GP so we know the system and that helps immensely, especially when negotiating EOL stuff, though we're now in the position where my mother in law has lived too long so the things that we put in place last year when we thought she had a few months have now moved on. It's the constant unknowns now - and the knowledge that she could either go downhill very fast (if the current chemo regime fails) or could go on a bit longer. In the meantime we are in a kind of stasis - we can't plan for the future. I know I'm luckier than most because of mine and dad's backgrounds we can do a lot of the day to day nursing and medical care. My nephew is a trainee nurse and has worked as an HCA so can help too. We're financially stable enough to pay for extra OOH care when needed and give her a good life. I don't need attendance allowance and have contacts in Macmillan and Marie Curie. I can't begin to understand how anyone deals with this without the knowledge and resources that I and my fa,ily have to be honest.

Some people make a big deal of it and some people are terrible with organisation and time management. I worked as an EA at CEO level for years, so 'family admin' was child's play for me, even though I was a single parent. It's only really on MN I hear people making a thing of it. Most people just keep on top of it as it comes up.

Leigh I wish I had your background. As an outsider it was a nightmare. It's how I imagine some parents of children with SEND needs find navigating the education system (it's hard enough for those of us who work in it at times!)

To be honest, as a family we all mucked in. It wasn't always easy, at times it was bloody difficult, but ultimately it's part and parcel of family life and increasingly common so there's nothing to be gained in totting up who did what phonecall, who visited most in person Vs meetings with providers etc Vs internet research. To so that would have been quite petty in my opinion. Life can be tough sometimes but you support each other and get through.

I have seen a few threads where a SAHM has actually been really nasty to others on the thread going on about all this family admin they do. Why not just post and say I'm overwhelmed with being a parent and general life? Instead they list all these parenting and normal life things as family admin like they've got this full time job? I just don't get it. Just hold your hands up and say you find all the tasks involved with being a parent a bit much at times. It's often no, it's not that, it's all the admin involved... it's called PARENTING ffs

I have POA for my mums finances as she has Alzheimer's, I also tend to deal with her SW and the care agencies as I have more patience for the mountains of paperwork that seems to generate than my siblings.
It adds up to quite a bit of paperwork, form filling, responding to pointless emails by her SW & care team and bill paying - as setting up new DDs with a POA doesn't seem to work the majority of the time and some agencies still don't accept them (more annoying are the dementia groups that still only accept cash which mum never remembers to take) so it's easier to just sit down and pay everything once a week, it also gives me the chance to check her bank statements as she's vulnerable to fraud.
So whereas my finances may generally be automated and only require a quick check now and then, hers is a whole other ball game that also requires record keeping as levels of trust between all us siblings are low - we get on intermittently but are forced to work together for her care

I can see it from both sides - because I can tolerate a high level of disorganisation and used to have a v stressful job. DH used to do most of the family admin and is more of a listy, organised person. He feels he has to label it family admin as otherwise I won’t realise what he does when he disappears for a few hours while I’m left with both kids. So maybe that’s why people label it - because people laugh at them for having a hard day and doing ‘nothing’.

To be fair the very useful things he has done are, which allow me to function more effectively are: Set up new computer and transfer over all files and back-up, regularly clears space for me on phone so I can take more vids of the kids (not requiring expensive cloud storage), find and file important photos (medical). The listing of the food shop is a bit of a luxury as I would otherwise live on the same 5 meals each week and never have to change it - but it keeps him happy...

DH found gcses and a levels easy, but I found them stressful. Same thing - I guess it’s the importance you attach to the admin-able things.

Well as I think has already been said children with additional needs need more admin. Ours are also adopted so have social work involvement, CAMHs involvement Therapists, GPs and Consultants. So not only appointments for these but also medication and ensuring they don't run out. Our DS is on 5 different meds. a day and DD 3. I am on 7!
Then there's the DLA forms, the Tax credit forms, the carers allowance forms, and the adoption allowance forms. We run our own business so have VAT and Tax to do, then there's the dentist, optician's, and vet's appointments for our not too well dog.

People really do get bizarrely angry over how other people choose to manage and handle their own lives.

Isn’t that far more of a concern to you than whether someone likes to call tasks “family admin”.

Why are you doing this and not DH

Because he works full time and has to get up at 5.45am every morning and commute to London, I do neither, so I do the tedious claims for him.

Don't worry on my account that I am some sort of meek little wife doing wife-work, I'm really not

We run our own business so have VAT and Tax to do

That's work not family admin. Anyway if you're earning enough to pay VAT, could you afford a VA to do some of the tedious work admin for you?

@LolaSmiles it does seem to make it as stressful as possible at a time when you're already stressed, I agree. A friend of mine is navigating the SEND system now for her child just starting primary. The school are doing all they can but the EHCP has been turned down because they don't have enough money. In the meantime the school will,continue paying for 1:1 support which they can't afford because the new funding formula has left them almost bankrupt because this child needs the level of support that EHCP can give. It's horrendous. Just navigating the system for a parent is a full time job.

When I had a few children at school keeping on top of all the parents evening, plays, trips etc was a pain. The rest of the family stuff was fine and not much work. I still forgot stuff (half-term more than once).

SEN DC does add to it, and having jobs that require international travel (so keeping on top of everyone's schedule is ridiculously important - we've only twice had to work it that DD had 1 parent in the house going to sleep and a different one in the house when she woke, as 1 arrived home after midnight from their trip and the other left on a 6am flight for their own!).

Both DH and I also have roles outside of work which involve organising other activities (I run 1 youth group for 21 DCs and am group secretary to the wider group involving 170 youth members; and am the class captain for a different youth group of roughly 20 DCs which involves recruiting and overseeing their paid instructors, and am on the Junior Committee across all classes in that organisation (responsible for a range of activities for over 200 DCs) - DH is involved as the national chair of a committee organising activities in over 25 clubs for over 300 DCs and dealing with international issues on that front, and also has a role in 2 professional organisations relevant to his work including committee work and organising events).

So there is the juggling of calendars and making sure that DH and I both know important dates in advance (and making sure DD tells us these with more than 10 minutes notice!).

Paying the bills - lots are DD but a few are not. But I do have the main ones in my budget on excel, including the annual ones (expected amounts and dates) to watch for.

Organising the maintenance - plumbing and electricity issues as they arise, getting boiler serviced annually, getting cars serviced or repairs done, getting chimney swept annually, defrosting the freezer, degreasing the drains etc.

Remembering the regular jobs that need doing - making sure we remember to check oil and tyre pressures frequently enough, agreeing the fortnightly cleaners visit (they call each time in advance) and being prepped enough for that (having the clean sheets out to be changed, having the correct bin liners out as different ones fit different bins, leaving the kitchen drainer clear of dishes as we usually leave things air-drying, and just putting away the piles of clutter to allow the actual cleaning to happen). Checking the outside drains (1 has a tendency to being blocked from further up the street but there are 2 that need checking) so a major blockage doesn't happen. Checking smoke alarm and CO alarm batteries.

Booking DD appointments, filling in forms, chasing others on phone during their very limited "available" hours. And then organising time off to get to appointments. Filling her script on a monthly basis.

Making sure there is food in the house, that is edible, and what people will willingly eat. Taking account of changing tastes (remember the SEN? There are food issues included!). And the diary, meaning evenings that we are only in late and starving, or need to eat and get back out again, or that DH is in charge and won't cook properly (midweek at least) - or other evenings that we can cook properly and have time to prep for the following day, or DH is not so busy so will be OK to cook a meal, …..and having different meals to deal with the different needs, thought about, agreed, and shopped for.

Dealing with my health issues (long term, chronic condition that I need to manage and ongoing pain from other issues), and DH's (different kind of long term stuff going on). Both of ours are exacerbated by stress and tension - so they are always flaring up!

Extended family admin, around older DPs (mostly DH in fairness, but I am anticipating some issues getting worse for my own DPs in the next couple of years and some things already do need time and energy to think about and help resolve at a distance).

For us, closing the door on Christmas Eve to the world outside, having no commitments to others (apart from seeing a few people after mass on 25th for a drink) for 36 hours, and putting away all responsibility for admin for others as well as ourselves, is SUCH a major relief. We keep saying we need to slow down, but can't see any others who will take on some elements of what we do (we have both asked, in general and for specific tasks, and got little or no positive response). But it all gets done, somehow.

Organising family life takes time but of course as the bulk of this falls to women it’s unpaid work that people feel free to look down on and make belittling remarks about.

Some of the things I’ve been asked to do in paid work have been totally pointless in comparison to making sure my family are fed and taken care of but because there’s a salary attached to it no one starts threads on mumsnet with the aim of making women feel shit about themselves.

I have become very forgetful recently, I think this is from too much mental load of working full time in a stressful job and juggling DDs many appointments. I have always been someone who multitasks and fits tasks between other things. But I’m finding it easier to manage by making lists and setting aside time to tackle tasks before they become urgent. I’ve never called it ‘family admin’ but to be honest having a label and setting time aside for it is helping me cope with right now.

There are lots of minimisers on this thread. Different people have different things going on in their lives, no need to judge so harshly.

Another phrase I've seen on here which I think is really wanky is 'mental load'. Does that mean the same as 'family admin ?'

What an odd mix of replies.

Many replies have sank into ‘I’m better than you’ Mumupmanship©️

It’s not about that it’s about wondering what the term ‘family admin’ means. That’s all.

I don’t care if it takes me 12 seconds or 12 minutes, but spending 20 hours a week phoning a few appointments and writing stuff on a calendar seems a huge waste of time.

I think the “odd mix” of replies is because it means different things to different people. There’s no objective definition, so the people who seem to spend much longer doing it are actually including a lot more than phoning for appointments and writing stuff on calendars.

@LuckySeventhWave look at your OP again. Then read it a few times.

You literally started the "mumupmanship" and how easy it all is for you and how much better you are at it.

So spare us the wide eyed faux innocence.

But you haven't taken on board what posters have een saying.
Everyone is counting different things.
What is 'admin' and what is 'stuff that you do'
What is 'family' and what is 'household'
What is personal
What comes under 'housework'
What is 'maintenance'
That some people are time rich and cash poor
That others either can't make time, or don't think it is important and 'research' things less (ie to save money by switching accounts etc on a regular basis)
That some people have dc who are organised and efficient and others have dc with organisational difficulties.
That some people have dc that do lots and there will then be more arrangements around those activities and others don't.

People have given you over 300 replies, explaining why some things take up quite a lot of their time.

silverySurfer
Mental load refers to who carries the bulk of the thinking.

E.g. I'd say DH and I equally carry the mental load because we both are good at noticing/remembering things need doing and either doing it ourselves or asking the other to do it.

Whereas I have friends who divide household tasks and life things fairly equally, but it's the woman in the relationship who tends to be the one thinking about what needs doing. Eg. Their partner will ask what needs doing or what they can do etc and then the woman tells them what they need to do. Sometimes that's because the woman is an organiser type, others it's because the men are well meaning but a bit useless in some areas.

In other relationships often the woman ends up doing all the thinking and all the doing so their mental load is greater.

Whereas "family admin", as this thread suggests, seems to mean anything and everything depending on the person. Most people tend to just get on with things best they can for their circumstances. Others like to make a big song and dance about it.
Others (again as this thread shows) seem to think that identifying people who make a big fuss and itemise everything and make a fuss means you're some evil person who thinks life is easy, when the reality is life has its challenges for everyone, just most people tend not to use wanky phrases to talk about how busy they are all the time.

Leigh that sounds about right. How parents of children with lots of additional needs get through it is amazing.