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Original poster

Why are some Labour voters in denial about JCs endorsement of party wide anti-Semitism

281 replies

Rainbowhairdontcare · 30/10/2019 12:00

I'm in a tactical vote group on FB. There was a fairly civilised discussion about JC when I said as a Jew I can't vote for him, nor any of the members of the small community where we live.

Then I got told off for buying the "fear mongering biased media".

I've read and heard what he's said. As a Jew I can clearly see it as anti-Semitism. It baffles me that people are still in denial about it.

OP posts:
SeaWitchly · 02/11/2019 02:50

I agree with you Echobelly. I personally have not seen or heard any anti Semitic beliefs demonstrated by Labour members. If I had I would call it out and report it. In the meantime we need to get on with defeating the Tories and protecting the most vulnerable in our society.

VashtaNerada · 02/11/2019 03:47

My family’s Jewish and we support JC. I try to read as much about it as I can from both sides of the conversation and it’s certainly something I want to stay informed about rather than sticking my head in the sand. I think he’s made some questionable choices in the past, sometimes to prove a point (such as criticism of the Israeli government) but I do remain convinced that we would all (including Jews) be much, much better off with a Corbyn government.

I’m happy to have this debate, I think it’s really important. What frustrates me is being told that families like mine (Jewish and Corbyn-supporting) don’t exist and having our voices erased from the media.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 02/11/2019 04:43

I personally have not seen or heard any anti Semitic beliefs demonstrated by Labour members

There are over a hundred elected and prospective officials that I know of and it's like a new one hits the headlines every other day. Go on any Labour member forum and it's a cesspit. There are huge and well documented problems with many CLPs. Yet there are still statements like this, as though the racism can be pretended away. It is awful. That's without even looking at Corbyn's personal behaviour. Although yeah, there's always 'wHaT aBoUt IsRaEl' as if anyone gives a shit about a country the size of Wales that's 3000 miles away when they're racially attacking British Jews. It is racism and it is completely unacceptable.

noblegiraffe · 02/11/2019 08:50

I personally have not seen or heard any anti Semitic beliefs demonstrated by Labour members

You can’t have looked very far then because there’s loads of it about. Get on twitter, but be warned, it won’t be good for you.

Helmetbymidnight · 02/11/2019 09:03

agree with much of what echobelly has brilliantly said;

defeating the Tories is actually more important than some Labour people being antisemitic, and it would be better without Corbyn at the helm, but ultimately, a Labour government is hardly going to be sticking stars on our sleeves and sending us to camps. The Shoah didn't happen because the Nazis didn't manage antisemitism properly. Sorry, I know that seems glib, but it's how I feel. Labour are not an existential threat to Jews. The Tories and their policies are a very real threat to poor and disabled people, and that's more important

and also i despise the Right wingers who dont usually give a fuck about anti-semitism who are all up in arms now about corbyn...

nevertheless, i dont think i can bring myself to tick the labour box this time. i think i'll go lib dem. Blush

ilovetofu · 02/11/2019 09:19
  1. We need to keep those bastardingTories out.
  1. You can be pro Palestine and not be anti-Semitic.
WeshMaGueule · 02/11/2019 09:20

they'd say he (always a 'he' in Labour) was great

Slight sidetrak, but Labour has had two female leaders (albeit interim ones).

Helmetbymidnight · 02/11/2019 09:27

one of the many reasons i struggle with corbyns labour is that so many labour supporters genuinely think they are saying something profound or important to jewish people when they explain this:

You can be pro Palestine and not be anti-Semitic.

because jews really dont know what anti semitism is, do they?

WeshMaGueule · 02/11/2019 09:30

Boris Johnson gives his approval to a cartoon in which black people are represented as...

I don't want to get all whatabout, but given BJ's records of statements on Black people, Muslim women, and gays BEFORE he was elected PM I don't think that is a particularly good point.

noblegiraffe · 02/11/2019 09:35

I was about to post a photo of stuff put out by someone selected to stand as a Labour councillor to show that it’s not simply people being pro-Palestine but actually anti-Semitic. But it’s quite telling that the stuff is so awful that I deleted the photo because I don’t think MN would let it stand, even as an example.

Here’s a link to a twitter thread instead twitter.com/gnasherjew/status/1151105418283880448?s=21

A whole thread of holocaust denial and Jewish conspiracy theories put out by people standing for election (or elected) for Labour.

It’s horrible to read.

Helmetbymidnight · 02/11/2019 09:52

But then Matthew Parris was on the radio this morning, saying (even) he can't vote for the Cons at the election because they are dragging the party further and further to the right to please the rabid brexitteers - and that really won't be good for any minorities.

noblegiraffe · 02/11/2019 10:02

Then put your cross next to a different party.

Bloody hellfire people act as if there’s only two parties on the ballot.

“Oh no, what will I do? The racists or the antisemites, what a choice!” meanwhile the Lib Dems, Greens, Lord Buckethead and god knows who else are waving frantically from the sidelines.

missyB1 · 02/11/2019 10:06

Exactly noblegiraffe for the first time ever at age 51 I will be voting Lib Dem. There are alternatives!

NameChange84 · 02/11/2019 10:08

I'm not Jewish but his anti-semitism is part of why I could never vote for the man.

Alot of people don't care about what doesnt affect them. They don't see that by saying "don't believe everything you read/see in the media," that they are being offensive and suggesting that people haven't seen and heard what the man himself has done. Or hasn't done in JC's case, just idly sat by and allowed this to take root.

I suppose these people don't really mind other people feeling unsafe and discriminated against. If its not happening to them, it's not happening. And so the cycle continues.

Helmetbymidnight · 02/11/2019 10:13

There are more than two parties?! Grin

Lord Buckethead is not standing in my area.

noblegiraffe · 02/11/2019 10:18

I’m not sure Lord Buckethead is standing anywhere, I think there was a copyright dispute.

But people saying “I don’t want to waste my vote” meaning “I’m going to vote for the racists or the antisemites” need to think carefully about whether that actually gives their vote value.

ArseDarkly · 02/11/2019 11:13

What frustrates me is being told that families like mine (Jewish and Corbyn-supporting) don’t exist and having our voices erased from the media

Indeed.

joanneg36 · 02/11/2019 16:58

WeshMaGueule - if you are still reading this thread - I don't believe Johnson's record on racism is as bad as Corbyn's, personally and we can argue this back and forth but there isn't much point because you will not find me telling you to vote for Boris Johnson either.

As awful as BJ is in many ways (and I do think he is) the point I made was that if he had literally commented approvingly on a cartoon portraying black people as something highly offensive, he would have had to resign the next day. Do you disagree with this? Corbyn did the same, but it was Jews, so nothing happened.

I fully understand people who feel they cannot vote for Johnson. Then don't. But don't vote for an anti-semite either.

joanneg36 · 02/11/2019 17:04

And to those of you who are Jewish and still voting for Corbyn: I entirely believe you exist and I don't believe you have been 'erased' from the media or anywhere else - Corbyn himself is always wheeling out a few Jews for photo ops who can be trusted to be sufficiently on message.

To all the 'being Pro-Palestine is not the same as being anti-Semitic' crowd: no it is not the same. Plenty of people, Jews included, are pro-a two-state solution and not anti-Semitic. But unfortunately Jeremy Corbyn isn't one of them. Nor is Chris Williamson. Nor is Ken Livingstone. Nor is Jackie Walker. Nor are the Labour councillors or potential candidates who pop up in the news on a pretty-much weekly basis being shown to be posting the most vile anti-Semitic filth on their Facebook pages.

So to those who say 'I haven't seen any anti-semitism' in the Labour Party - you're not looking hard enough.

And if you really think the lesson the twentieth century has taught us is that people generally worry too much about anti-Semitism and take it too seriously, then best of luck to you. Under a Corbyn government, we'll all need it.

WeshMaGueule · 02/11/2019 17:06

joanneg36 it's a slightly moot point as I can't vote in the UK but BJ literally used the terms "piccaninnies" and "watermelon smiles" and did not resign, so I'm not convinced he would in the circumstances you describe either. I'm not defending JC on this issue either.

leckford · 02/11/2019 17:06

St Jeremy is appalling on every level you have to be brain washed to vote for him. Although I am not really a fan of the other parties either

ArseDarkly · 02/11/2019 17:14

Corbyn himself is always wheeling out a few Jews for photo ops who can be trusted to be sufficiently on message.

For someone seemingly so offended you are massively offensive yourself.

As awful as BJ is in many ways (and I do think he is) the point I made was that if he had literally commented approvingly on a cartoon portraying black people as something highly offensive, he would have had to resign the next day

This is the same Johnson who referred to picanninies and watermelon smiles and cannibals but was still overwhelmingly elected Tory leader. And you are happy to minimise that while ranting about racism under Corbyn? You are all over the place

Charlottejbt · 02/11/2019 17:35

DD2 is of Jewish descent, and I'm voting Labour. We have to get the Tories out before there are any more unnecessary deaths and ruined lives caused by austerity.

I've got bruises all down one leg from falling through a rotten floorboard at home. If JC wants to go after dodgy landlords, he's all right by me.

Helmetbymidnight · 02/11/2019 17:36

BJ literally used the terms "piccaninnies" and "watermelon smiles" and did not resign- letterboxes, arse-bandits, 'hilarious' odes about the pm of turkey, boris can and does get away with all sorts of foul behaviour- odd to suggest he doesnt.

ArseDarkly · 02/11/2019 17:39

Joanneg36 - Plenty of people, Jews included, are pro-a two-state solution and not anti-Semitic. But unfortunately Jeremy Corbyn isn't one of them

Jeremy Corbyn 2018 Labour Conference -
“We support a two-state solution to the conflict with a secure Israel and a viable and secure Palestinian state. … And in order to help make the two-state settlement a reality, we will recognize a Palestinian state as soon as we take office.”