Feeling ashamed of how I handled a situation with my daughter this morning

[expatinspain]

I really lost my temper with DD 10 this morning and am feeling awful about it. She ended up really upset and at the time I was angry, but now I'm upset too.

She is just a nightmare with being messy and it drives me insane. This morning it came to a head. We've tried rewards, talking and punishments, but it always seems to end up the same after improving for a while. She's a procrastinator in the mornings and I seem to spend my mornings like a drill Sargent trying to get her out of the door on time. All she has to do in an hour and 15 mins is get dressed, brush her hair and teeth, eat breakfast, make her bed and leave her room in a semi organised state.

She leaves her pyjamas screwed up in a ball on the floor, even though she gets her clothes ready the night before, she puts on different things or tries on different coats and leaves the things she's not wearing screwed up at the bottom of the wardrobe or on the floor hidden, only to be discovered days later. Some of these are new things or just washed. She also spends the morning answering back and arguing about anything and everything or telling me last minute.com about papers she needs signed for school etc.

After a particularly bad morning I went into her room and found a brand new coat screwed up at the end of the bed, stuff on her bed that she'd just covered with the duvet that she couldn't be bothered to put away and I lost my temper. She argued with me and I took everything and threw it in a massive pile on the floor and made her put everything away neatly and really told her off. She was close to tears and really shocked, and she ended up 5 minutes late for school and me rushing to work stressed and upset too.

I will apologise later as I acted out of frustration and it wasn't my finest hour. If anyone has any advice up offer on how to handle things better, it would be very welcome. It's like Groundhog Day every day and I'm so fed up, but don't want to overreact like that again. I've just upset her and myself as I was so pissed off and really shouted at her. Acting in anger is never the best way and I'm not teaching her anything.

I think it's pretty normal messiness and a pretty normal over reaction too. I bet the majority of us have been there

Yes, sounds like me as a child not much changed 60 odd years later but hey! i survived:)

Let the parent who has never lost it with a child throw the first - humm can't cast stones anymore can we ;!!

I think don't apologise, but say why you got mad etc, my 12yo has recently started high school and I still do packed lunches but after him leaving me to pack his bag etc and not being responsible, I've let him get into trouble twice for forgetting homework because I'm not helping him to help himself. I was asking every night if this and that etc is packed, and he was sure it was and what a surprise he forgot homework one day and got a detention! Mortified, homewotk sat at home in a pile of papers.
We also get pants, socks and PJ's screwed up in the bed , but the bed is made over the top? Can't win them all!

I don't actually see that what you did was that bad! I certainly wouldn't apologise, you were at the end of your tether so maybe her seeing that is a good thing. Personally I think a good bloody bollocking can have the desired effect ( but I come from an era where the wooden spoon reigned & teachers could slap kids with rulers)
I'd get some strategies in place, starting with a short list of what you expect from her - clothes hung up or folded or in the laundry basket. And make her do it EVERYTIME regardless of where she's off to.
My 7 & 9 year old manage this but need reminders sometimes, but they hang up coats, put shoes by the door, put clean clothes away and dirty ones in their hampers. 9 year old is also learning how to out a family laundry wash on too.. it's never too early.

I wouldn’t apologise tbh. I don’t think that you overreacted at all. It’s not as though you were taking out your frustrations out on her because of something someone else did. You are frustrated because she is extremely messy and despite giving her time to change, she hasn’t
Your dd is old enough to sort out her own bedroom

This^^

I don’t believe there is anything wrong with apologising to anyone, including children, if you were in the wrong but in this instance, she deserved a telling off.

Ours also have to keep bedrooms reasonably tidy - any fuss about this and they're sent to said room til it's done, no telly or whatever until it's in a reasonable state. The boy sometimes drags his heels so it's left til the next day ( and he's up in his room til bedtime) , but then he has to do it either do it in the morning or straight after school so has finally twigged that he should just crack on with doing what he's been told.

I dont think it does any harm for our kids to see that our limits have been pushed. You can apologise for the outburst, but not the reason behind it - you'll both get over it, no biggy. I agree with this. The shock might just have given her something to think about. And she's old enough to understand the value of clothes etc and the fact that you don't have endless money to be careless about things.

Does she know exactly what you expect? ie, is it, 'I want your room tidied up and your bed made like ...this (example) and all your stuff put away?' Because my mum had vague rules like this. I'd do what I think was 'tidying up' and it wouldn't be to her standard so she'd throw everything on the floor and I'd have to start again, but all I could do was put it back the way I'd had it as I had no idea what her idea of 'tidy up' was.

Maybe a tick list would work?
Coat hung up
Other clothes folded in drawer
Bed sheet straighted
Duvet pulled up

That kind of thing? For some kids 'tidy your room' means push everything under the bed, and it's acceptable, for others it's not been tidied until every surface is clear and dusted.

I think it was just that your timing was off OP, the morning can be hectic and I think it would have been better to just make the pile of things on the floor and get her to tidy them up after school. You were both under time pressure (her school and you work) so that didn't help this morning. Does it really matter what time of day she tidies her room? Pick your battles!

Why would you apologise?
If you say sorry then the next time this happens - and there will be a next time - she will subconsciously and definitely consciously expect another “Mum is sorry”.
An apology is taking the edge of her behaviour which is entirely responsible for this incident in the first place.

If I were you I would revisit the situation but I would not apologise. I would exposing calmly and clearly why you were annoyed with her and set out some realistic expectations. At ten I knew better than to treat my things with such disrespect. Our mother was a single parent and she worked night and day to take care of us and we worked like a team.

If she can’t look after her nice new things take them off her, teaching her some basic responsibility and ownership at 10 is not unreasonable. Let he make her packed lunch with you at bedtime and get her to lay out her clothes etc for the next day. If she consistently behaves well give her her nice weekend clothes and stuff back.

It’s not about punishing her but educating her.

I could write the same about DD12! But in my calmer moments I realise that she does need to work on learner how to be organised and tidy, and just as you don't learn maths just by being told to try harder, she also needs to be taught and made to practice these skills as well.

What has worked a bit:

• make time when you are not in a hurry for tidying, for us it is Saturday morning before we do anything fun, some in the evenings depending on her dance classes, but never in the morning before school!

• have an evening routine that includes getting things ready for the next day along with having a wash, brushing teeth etc

• make checklists, so we are both clear about what needs to be done and how. I try not expect DD to know what I mean by 'tidy your room' (yes, I know it should be obvious, but at the moment it isn't), so the checklist is - put all dirty clothes in the laundry, make sure all clean clothes have been put away in the right place, bring any dirty cups etc to the kitchen, put all books on the bookshelf. That takes care of 90% of it, and I can live with the other 10% if that brings peace,and DD can refer to the list instead of me nagging and her getting cross.

Right now the major 'push' on getting into good habits is for her not to leave things out in the kitchen (lid off the teabag container, milk left out of the fridge), and not leaving clothes on the floor when she changes.

Choose one or two things to focus on, involve your DD in planning how to make these good habits, focus on each improvement rather than how much else needs to be done.

Then forgive yourself for the occasional shouty moment, apologise to DD for shouting and give her a hug, and find time to set small targets calmly together.

Just another saying that you are not alone.

Although, I do apologise if I have been very angry as this is not a behaviour that I want my DC to emulate. This is a rare occurrence though. Usually, I just give a good telling off about how disrespectful it is and sometimes point out that we have had tradies in who needed to get to her windows or to work in her room and I had to pick up her dirty undies.... I found this has helped hugely as she reached puberty.

I have had to learn to back off a little because my DC takes responsibility of other things and other chores very well as she got older. And without complaint. They still do not do a great job on the clothes front, but it is better now that they are 13 and not 10 as well. The staring into the mirror thing gets done after school hours now and not before. She is really good in getting herself ready for school now she is in high school, including lunch. I put this down to a few months of 'drill sergeant' training from me at around 10 or 11.

The leaving of 'stuff' on the floor has lessened significantly because DC now uses own pocket money to buy a lot of her own stuff and has much more respect for it.

If it is any further help, I know that when I was a teenager, I was dumping clothes as well. But I quickly upped my game when I moved out of home at 16. Because then it did click. I had to do my own laundry and had to buy my own clothes which I did not want destroyed.

Mmmm what does “seriously lost my temper” mean?

I don’t think a bit of shouting is honestly that bad. Your daughter (like many and mine!) isn’t really appreciating her stuff or pulling her weight. I don’t think it does kids any favours to be entitled. It’s a tough old world!

Yes, shouting isn’t the best but we have all been there

The 10yo I wrote about before is currently wailing about how impossible it is to ensure that only the items on the agreed list are in his trug.

To him, it is somehow difficult to take the other 5 items out and put them in the right places. So he hid them under his swimming bag and is now ASTONISHED that I say this doesn't count as a job well done. So far I'm keeping my cool and remembering this is his character and i'm responsible for my own.

Oh, and I'm listening to this on repeat....

I’m actually laughing at the thought of my mum reading this thread. We were yelled at pretty regularly and taught to pull our weight/help out. Then as mothers, we have been taught to mollycoddle our own kids leaving us utterly exhausted!

Why does she need so many coats?

Jesus. I wouldn't have found that funny. Hopefully she learned some self control.

Oh for goodness sake. Lighten up. The poster can laugh about the incident with her mother so there’s no need for you to concern yourself about it. I have a similar incident I could recount where I pushed my lovely mum to the absolute limit so that she did something so out of character. We would laugh about it too and I can assure you I wasn’t psychologically damaged for life.

No, we were brought up fairly strictly in terms of helping out, manners and working hard. We did get yelled at. Busy house, stressful job. Did me absolutely no harm.

Whilst I rarely shout at my own kids, I am also strict with them as I don’t want them to fall flat on their faces when they are adults. And yes, sometimes I raise my voice.

I think some people live in a very odd bubble on MN about real life

Don't worry about it. It's a valuable lesson that actions or lack of action has consequences. Other people are affected by ones actions or lack of and if the consequence causes her discomfort then that is part of the learning process. Ignore everyone who condemns you. Seriously, MN is full of ghastly people who try to make you feel bad. You are doing just fine. It may help to allow her to experience the full consequences of her lack of action. Allow her to be late to school (as long as it doesn't affect you being late somewhere) and suffer the consequences from school. Don't rewash it iron her clothes. Don't change her bedding. You will have to bite the bullet and accept mess for a bit but you May have to allow things to get to a point that SHE is uncomfortable with it.

Has she actually damaged anything?
Going ballistic because she put some stuff on the bed seems a tad dramatic to me. But then my mum was the same when I was a kid.

I’m Naturally untidy and still have a permanent Floordrobe.
I rarely speak to my parents any more either. Pretty sure the billions of shouting matches about ‘mess’ and equating being messy to me being an awful disrespectful person didn’t exactly foster a positive relationship.

Shouting will not transform a messy child into a tidy one, it will just ruin your relationship. Pick your battles

Yep, don't apologise. You can explain if you like - but she already knows.

For the stuff lying around the house: one big plastic box, chuck it all in. Once a week dump it in her room.

For the room: meh. My daughter's room has always been an awful tip and i can't even go in there now as it gives me The Rage. If it pains you to see her nice clothes screwed up - tell her it's Tesco own brand (other cheap alternatives are available) until she can learn to look after them.

Important thing is: do it.

Also "nagging" - it's not nagging if you tell someone to do something (because it's their responsibility) and they don'T so you remind them. More than once. It is reminding.

Don’t apologise it suggests you were in the wrong. Been there done that only mine is 22. When she was at uni and in a house share and had to live with her mess she kept it tidy (if very dusty) now she’s back home her bedroom is a shit tip again. You won’t solve this overnight and the mixing clean and dirty clothes won’t improve.

This is a problem that for some of us that goes on for years, you are better off coming to a mutual solution as the stress isn’t worth it. I remember being the same when I lived at home and I am a tidy up freak since I left home thirty plus years ago.

The only compromise we ever reached was dirty clothes have to be put to wash or they won’t be washed. Clean clothes have to be put away or she didn’t get any more clean clothes until they had.

DS has always followed this rule, DD has always struggled. If she wants to throw new clothes on the floor now I don’t care, I don’t buy them.

Why does she need so many coats?

And what has that got to do with anything?

My daughter has a thick winter coat, a lighter parka for autumn/spring, an even lighter jacket for summer, a gilet for when she feels like it... totally par for the course with school aged kids in variable weather, surely?

You are human too! Children test the limit and she found yours! Sometimes that's no bad thing. You can apologise for reacting that way but don't let her think that what she did was OK after all. She has responsibilities in your family and it's all about give and take, not take and take. There are plenty of children out there who don't have a flipping coat! She should treat her stuff (and you) with more respect.

The only thing you did "wrong" imo was to make her tidy before school.

Would it work to get up later so that there's no time to fanny around?

When you get her up move what she needs to your room (for example) & lock her door?

Another one having the same problem. (DC 9,11,14) Everyday I wake up think today is going to be a good morning and by 750 it’s a shit storm and I’m resorting to yelling, which I’m absolutely hating.

One thing that’s helping.. slowly, is if they haven’t done what’s expected (basically just help tidy kitchen the night before and pick up after themselves) then I don’t make their lunch. For about two days they were happy with that plan. Now they’ll almost do anything to get their lunches made, and if they haven’t put their lunch boxes out, and washed and emptied them, then sandwiches etc. are left on the chopping board.

School uniforms don’t get washed if they are not in the washing basket either.... that is a slow work in progress because they don’t overly care and will just rewear it.

And we’ve started pocket money too, which is motivating but not hugely.