Unplanned - Abortion Film **Trigger Warning** Title edited by MNHQ sensitive content*

[Mum2386]

Hi,
Last night I watched a film called Unplanned, which is based on a true story of a lady working within an abortion clinic called ‘Planned Parenthood’. The film itself brought me to tears on many occasions and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable surrounding abortion. I had an unplanned pregnancy with my third child but knew abortion wasn’t an option for me. I am quite shocked by the amount of abortions that still take place within our society. Does anyone else feel this way? I know we all have different views but i just wondered what other people’s thoughts were on this very sensitive topic.

Ensuring women have free access to safe, legal, non-judgemental abortion services has a positive impact on society.

Killing proven criminals would also probably have a positive impact on society though.

Women are oppressed without access to this technology, so who was oppressing them ?

Men

So the fact that women could not have sex without the risk of getting pregnant and possibly having to give birth before medical technology to prevent or abort pregnancy, is mens fault ? jesus christ.

Should we never intervene with nature? Should we not cure people of cancer? Cancer cells are after all alive too.

Cancer cells are not comparable to a foetus and I don't believe that even you think that.

Ensuring women have free access to safe, legal, non-judgemental abortion services has a positive impact on society.

I think that is rather a matter of opinion. On the other hand our instincts typically cause us to be offended or upset at the image of aborted foetuses because they look like babies. The reaction is visceral although I note that some people claim to unomved by images of what our senses tell us is a dead baby.

Actually it’s a matter of record. You’ve already been shown the incidence of illegal abortion worldwide. So no, not a ‘matter of opinion’ just because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

Personally I’m not offended by images of abortion, or even looking at actual abortions in real life. but repugnance towards images is not a reason to ban anything. If we did god knows any and all surgeries would be on the chopping block, because none of them are particularly pleasing to look at.

'The anti abortion argument is simply that the deliberate ending of a life is morally wrong, end of.'

That's very cleverly worded.
So the fact of women and girls dying due to pregnancy, childbirth, women and girls dying through unsafe abortion, is not an issue because its not deliberate.

Women and girls who are pregnant can for to a variety of reasons decide on suicide. This is deliberate. Morally wrong? End of? Or only if a foetus is impacted, like the woman in usa who went to prison because she tried to commit suicide while pregnant?

What about when a woman or girl becomes pregnant and its not convenient / acceptable to her family/ husband / partner? So they kill her. That is a moral nono as deliberate. Given that it's acceptable for women to die when pregnant in lots and lots of situations, the real crime there is against the foetus. Taking its life is morally wrong. I think that's how it goes.

idontbelieve so answer this one, if you please: Do you believe that a woman whose much wanted child has been diagnosed with a condition which is incompatible with life should be made to continue with the pregnancy?

This happened to a friend of mine. She had screening at 20 weeks. Something wasn't right. She had CVS, then had to wait for the results. They came back when she was 26 weeks. Her much wanted second child was going to die either in the final trimester or immediately after birth.

She had a termination. Would you have insisted she continue the pregnancy? Be honest.

Would you have insisted she continue the pregnancy? Be honest.

No, I wouldn't have insisted she continue the pregnancy. But the vast majority of abortions are not for these very sad reasons they are simply because the women can't be bothered with the hassle to put it bluntly, her life would be much easier if she were not pregnant.

This is what the OP is trying to get I believe. Most people are ambivalent to some extent on abortion, and the vast majority of abortions happening today are morally dodgy.

Except there is nothing “morally dodgy” about not wanting to be pregnant.

In 2017 I had a condom mishap. Didn’t take the MAP because I was already on the minipill. Except at my next pill check up it turns out I should never have been on that pill due to contraindication with other medication I take which makes the pill markedly less effective. I was lucky not to have got pregnant.

Are you really saying it would be reasonable for anyone to expect me to carry on with a pregnancy that would have been down to an error by a HCP?

You’re actually funny. Can’t be bothered with the hassle? Pregnancy isn’t like having to pop back out to the shops when you forgot the milk the 1st time. A straightforward pregnancy and birth is incredibly hard on the body. Life threatening complications are not uncommon (I’d have died having my 2nd child if it hadn’t be for modern medicine, just one of the reasons I knew I didn’t want a 3rd), the strain on a woman’s mental state in having more children than she can cope with, potential negative effects in her existing children (many women chose to abort because they are GOOD PARENTS). Plus there’s, you know, the baby and child you have to raise for the next 18 years (the rest of your life). A bit more to consider than ‘a bit of hassle’. If that’s how you view having a baby, I hope you don’t ever procreate to be honest. You’ll have the shock of your life.

Morally dodgy, according to who? You? That’s cool, but so what? By all means don’t have abortion, but that’s the extent of how much your ideas on morality actually matter to anyone else.

The thing is that we don't get to impose our morals on other people.

And tragic cases aside, I'm with Jacques here - not wanting to be pregnant is enough. I know too many people (double digits) who were diligent to the point of using double contraception - and still got pregnant. Some continued the pregnancies, some didn't. So don't go blaming women for their slapdash use of contraception, because real life isn't that simple.

Are you really saying it would be reasonable for anyone to expect me to carry on with a pregnancy...

If you are having penetrative sex then pregnancy is always a risk. Why is it reasonable to demand that abortion must be provided just so you can have sex ? How is that any more reasonable ?

there is nothing “morally dodgy” about not wanting to be pregnant.

That depends on your morals obviously. Some people would tell you there is nothing wrong with shooting a burglar for example.

If that’s how you view having a baby, I hope you don’t ever procreate to be honest.

Too late for that I'm afraid, already had two.

That depends on your morals obviously

Well no

You can argue that it’s morally dodgy to have an abortion

But not that it’s morally dodgy to not want to be pregnant

The thing is that we don't get to impose our morals on other people.

That is simply a false statement and you must know it. Your morals tell you ist's perfectly fine to kill the unborn for any reason whatever, and if a doctor wants to do that and has the mothers permission, then suck it up.

If you are having penetrative sex then pregnancy is always a risk. Why is it reasonable to demand that abortion must be provided just so you can have sex ? How is that any more reasonable

Yes. Hence why I used two methods of contraception. One of which was nigh on useless because of an error by the doctor.

I’m suggesting that yes it’s reasonable expect to be able to access abortion given a fuck up by a supposed expert.

Obviously there’s no answer you can give as you’re markedly avoiding the question. Speaks volumes.

But not that it’s morally dodgy to not want to be pregnant

Fair enough, but of course it's the act of being rendered unpregnant that people object to, not merely thinking about it.

Your morals tell you ist's perfectly fine to kill the unborn for any reason whatever, and if a doctor wants to do that and has the mothers permission, then suck it up

Look. I get you’re struggling and I’m really sorry you’re not able to understand better.

If I choose to have an abortion, that isn’t inflicting my morals on you. It’s all very easy.

Don’t want an abortion? Don’t have one. God you’d think it was rocket science.

WHO

'Between 2010–2014, on average, 56 million induced (safe and unsafe) abortions occurred worldwide each year.There were 35 induced abortions per 1000 women aged between 15–44 years.25% of all pregnancies ended in an induced abortion.The rate of abortions was higher in developing regions than in developed regions.Around 25 million unsafe abortions were estimated to have taken place worldwide each year, almost all in developing countries (1).Among these, 8 million were carried out in the least- safe or dangerous conditions.Over half of all estimated unsafe abortions globally were in Asia.3 out of 4 abortions that occurred in Africa and Latin America were unsafe.The risk of dying from an unsafe abortion was the highest in Africa.Each year between 4.7% – 13.2% of maternal deaths can be attributed to unsafe abortion (2).Around 7 million women are admitted to hospitals every year in developing countries, as a result of unsafe abortion (3).The annual cost of treating major complications from unsafe abortion is estimated at US$ 553 million (4).'

I’m suggesting that yes it’s reasonable expect to be able to access abortion given a fuck up by a supposed expert.

Ive already addressed this, people make mistakes you cannot reasonably expect to have penetrative sex 100% removed from the possibilty of pregnancy. How have I avoided the question ?

It's interesting that you want to blame someone for it. It's no ones fault that sex can result in being pregnant. Unable to accept this it seems you then demand that you must be given access to abortion, just so you can have penetrative sex.

Honestly this thread has made me even more pro choice some of the shit that has be spouted us unbelievable

MSF

'About 45 per cent of abortions globally are deemed unsafe, and more than 22,000 women and girls die each year after undertaking an unsafe abortion, says theGuttmacher Institute’s comprehensive reportpublished in 2018.'

It’s not a false statement when our laws specifically protect the rights of individuals and individual freedoms. You have the freedom and the right to not have an abortion, you don’t have the right to decide it for anyone else.

It’s also reasonable to demand the legal accessibility of abortion because protecting women from being driven into unsafe abortions is something civilized societies do.

Look. I get you’re struggling and I’m really sorry you’re not able to understand better.

If I choose to have an abortion, that isn’t inflicting my morals on you. It’s all very easy.

Don’t want an abortion? Don’t have one. God you’d think it was rocket science.

How am i affected if a mother smothers her newborn ? How does that affect me ? What business have I in being upset about that ? It doesn't directly affect me after all. Strange outlook.

Wait if it’s nature to fall pregnant and therefore birth should happen, isn’t things like illness and cancer also nature in its own way? So should we stop treatment for that? I really hope you don’t use things like antibiotics, you’re killing so many innocent bacteria and that’s nature and should be allowed to thrive, right? My daughters heart failed and so she got a transplant, maybe we should have let nature take its course? Or if I did choose to let her die would I be in the wrong because she was a baby?

A newborn is an autonomous individual, actualized, and not reliant on the body of another for survival.

Again, it’s not rocket science.

The anti abortion crew are comfortable with the human toll of unsafe abortion, for some reason. In fact would be keen to increase it.

Death is the tip of the iceberg, long term injury etc is not uncommon.

Many of these women will have existing children who will lose a mother / she will be less able to care for them etc.

Anti abortion types don't care about any of that though. They would elevate those figures by banning it everywhere. And feel morally superior in doing so.

Says everything you need to know, really.