I am so worried that I can't think straight anymore.

[outofthemoon]

DS 26 graduated 5 years ago, has worked 18months as a paralegal since, chucked it to go travelling. Rents a room in Manchester but spends most time with us. Just signs on. Has many strong opinions, says I'm autistic (but perhaps he is) has no relationships, few friends, drives. Is not all bad. But it's driving my dd (22) away and why won't he work. He does a bit of agency bar work but not much, and looks so scruffy I'm not surprised. I am worried sick that when i die my poor dd will have to take him on. He has overshadowed much of her life.

I can empathise here Op because I had a similar situation with my son and I became an enabler which I really regret.

Enabling is really an attempt to control.I had to really examine my beliefs about myself and my son which was very difficult. There was a part of me that felt a mothers role was to be self sacrificing and a martyr. I felt saying No was mean and if I'm entirely honest there was a part of me that was glad he needed me, yet at the same time I resented it.

I also had to look again at the story surrounding my son. He wasn't incompetent, stupid or anything like it. I would not raise a son like that and neither did you. Be honest with yourself about the story where he will become homeless if he can no longer visit and that you cannot act because of dd. Is she really that incompetent?

You need to let go Op. You cannot control your children and trying to is really hurting you. Trust that your son is a competent adult and can make it on his own. Get rid of the idea that dd needs you to suffer abuse to protect her. Their relationship will evolve, or not, and it is rightly out of your control.

You must let go Op because it is not kind to allow your son to behave like this. And as I'm sure you've realised, enabled people don't thank those who enable them. They treat them with contempt.

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/enabling-101-how-love-becomes-fear-and-help-becomes-control-1018134

For instance, if I changed the locks she would give him a key

Is that really true op? Would she really try to dictate who lives in your home? Because if there's even a possibility of this I would tell her she can't come back.

You need to sit your dd down and have a very very serious talk with her about the next steps and her role in it and your expectations of her regaling your house etc

This is your house and your choice to make and it is absolutely not up to her to to go behind your back and do things like give him keys!

Warn her that this is what you are going to do and that she is old enough now to face the truth about her brother, you have come to the end of being able to help now and the only thing left is to pull back and let him make whatever choices he is going to and hope that eventually he sorts himself out but that you will not be abused in you own home anymore
Say to her that you understand you can't stop her from offering him help but if she does she must face the consequences of that because she is old enough to realise that once you are no longer in the firing line that whoever (her) steps up they will replace you.

If she insists she will not let you follow through or she will give him keys etc then she won't get a key either.

Firstly, may I say a big THANK YOU, OP, because I am in a similar situation to you and I feel so grateful to you for sharing your story. My adult stepson lives with us and causes us endless worry. Like you, we are concerned that if we just say, "You're an adult, not our problem," and boot him out, that he won't be OK and may be suicidal. I have recently come to terms with this and perhaps my thoughts will be useful:

Your son is an adult, and it is his decision whether he works or signs on, what work he does and for whom. He has found a way to get an income - by signing on. You may feel this is a waste of his time and talents, but it is his choice, so once you have expressed your opinion you must leave that decision to him. Obviously, if he asks your help or advice to get work, you'll give it, otherwise, just let it go. What you mustn't do is to make it easy for him to cope financially by paying car expenses or giving him money. If he can't afford to fix his car - not your problem, you can't afford to help him. As for the suggestion that you or your DH should work in order to fund his lifestyle - laugh and tell him if you did earn money, you wouldn't be giving it to him anyway.

Him looking scruffy is not your problem either. He probably can't afford new clothes (or chooses to spend his money on other things). His decision. Give him nice t-shirts, jacket or trainers for Christmas and birthday but don't give him any money for clothes.

Smoking weed in your house - my DH and I feel very strongly about drugs, so my stepson would be kicked out instantly if he did this, but as you haven't done so already, I guess you'll have to continue to look the other way, unless you feel confident enough to demand he only smokes in the garden.

Vegan diet/poor eating - if you can afford to, buy vegan foods he's likely to eat, but don't worry yourself about it, cook special meals to tempt his appetite or try to persuade him to eat better. Casual attitude is good. Again, he must make his own choices.

Staying long-term - you may not want him staying, but do you feel a sense of relief that at least he is safe living with you? If not, try inviting other people to stay so 'his room' is not available, and do some decorating so it no longer looks like his. Take ages over it so the room isn't free to be used!

Rudeness - he may be obnoxious, but you don't have to listen to his 'strong opinions' if he's not prepared to listen to yours. Argue back and defend yourself, or say calmly 'I don't agree with you.'

Most importantly, you and your DH should read books on assertiveness, and do an assertiveness course as soon as possible.

Good luck x

If he didn't hold the title of your son, what would you do?

Think.

Sprouts, thank you for that article. It is as if someone wrote about our life who knew us.
Yes, we are enabling. My sisters have told me that for years and washed their hands of it all now. There is no one left to visit the house and fill his room (which is full of his stuff) no one will come anymore and stay with someone as obsessed and unhappy as me, let alone ds.
DH has read this thread now. He agrees. We must change. It's hard to know where to begin. Next week we go on holiday, both dcs with us. We arranged it months ago when we assumed things would have changed. After it, I think will be the time. It's so hard. The little things, like this is where his dog lives, the garden is full of plants he has put in. He loves growing things but has rejected the idea of horticultural college. He says over and over all he wants is for us to get on, and he asks nothing more, but he does. He asks us not to argue or criticise his way of life. To enable it. And if we do not agree he is prepared to do anything, call us anything, torture us mentally until we do. Until we say to each other, if dd was not here, we would die.
Do I tell him we are enabling? I feel like sending him that article and saying 'this is us and we are stopping now.'

If he didn't hold the title of my son I would never go near him. If he was my partner I would be gone long ago. But he does hold it. And I made life hard for him when I found he was buying drugs in school, age 15, I told school. He has never forgiven me. And I had a poor childhood and I tried to give them what I didn't have, a room of their own, school trips, pocket money, friends round, music and sports and holidays and the right clothes. I had none of those things. I spoilt them I suppose. Dd thanks me and rates me and my work, but ds does not. He says it's my choice and he owes me nothing back.

Do I tell him we are enabling? I feel like sending him that article and saying 'this is us and we are stopping now.'

No.
Don't tell him you are enabling, & dont send the article.
He is intelligent & articulate with plenty of time on his hands to twist any info into ammunition & fore it back at you.

Your communicaions with him need to get shorter, not longer. Words are not going to change him. You cannot chage him. Only HE can change him, & he can't change by living under your roof.

Go on the holiday, enjoy it as much as possible, then send him back to Manchester with your blessing to live his life any way he chooses - but he must fund it himself, with no handouts, not exceptions, & no financial or emotional leeching off his sister.

Then get to work on your own mental health.
You are getting no support & that is unsustainable. Set aside the money you used to donate to your capable adult son for doing nothing, & use it for therapy.

And I made life hard for him when I found he was buying drugs in school, age 15, I told school. He has never forgiven me

& this describes the entire dynamic of your relationship:
He fucked up by doing something wrong. He got caught. He now blames YOU for HIS wrongdoing.
You did nothing wrong, You acted like a responsible caring parent.

Out, you're not alone.
I read the article sprouts linked and I too fit the mold :(.
My daughter has failure to launch/peter pan syndrome. Her 20's were movie thriller horrible.

I never quite get over the fear and anxiety.

Don't tell him.

I'll be honest op this is going to be very hard and you're going to need support because he is going to guilt trip and manipulate you. People here will support you. I recommend reading a woman in her own right for some ideas about assertiveness.

I'm not at all surprised you had a poor childhood, I did too and I think it's quite common to over compensate for that.

You've been very brave op. Try to enjoy your holiday and know that things are going to get better. You're going to get your life back and it's going to be fantastic.

sprouts, thank you for sharing. so much of this thread is ringing true for me and just the little things that are being said are helpful.

He says he doesn't live with us and doesn't want to do. But he is always around.

I would start by changing the locks. Do not give your son a key. Tell him he's not welcome at home until he can act in a way which fits in with everyone .,.,,which means having regular, permanent work and being kind.

When he argues the toss tell him the above over and over again. Do not deviate from that line

Should he deface your property again, call the police.

You are enabling your son to bully you. It must stop

Start with the above and report back in a few weeks

Self-care issues, can't hold down a job, immature, self-medicates, rigidity with food, poor social skills....might be worth reading up on autistic spectrum disorder, OP.

I have been up all night. DH says I am obsessing. Yes, I am sure about autism, but so is he. He says i am autistic.

Thank you all. I don't know how this will turn out. I will try and change things for dd's sake. I don't know how much backing I will get because dh hates rows, we all do.

It's necessary to stop the bullying and the gaslighting

For you and for your DD

To show your DD that self respect and self love are important and that cowering in the face of bullies and empowering said bullies, is wrong

I don't want to sound unkind but it very much sounds like you favour your DD but just feel an obligation to your DS. You tolerate him and feel some guilt over your lack of affection for him, so therefore you allow him to behave how he wants to. I would say he's picked up on that his whole life and is lacking massively in self worth.

For both of your sakes he needs to leave and stand on his own two feet. Give him notice,if not to leave then a deadline to find a job. He needs his own space to find out who he is and to gain independence. The best and kindest thing you can do for him is to encourage him to spread his wings.

I don't know what good an autism diagnosis would do. Obviously, if ds would accept it, and accept help. But just knowing it myself is a bit meanlingless. I can't take it on. I can't deal with the care an autistic 26 year old man would need. It's not that I won't, it's that it is not possible i don't have the mental strength, or any mental strength anymore.

Also, if I dump ds she will try and pick up the slack. She always has.

Sorry OP but I wonder where she learnt this. You need to take some responsibility for your actions too. Stop this shit now or you risk alienating/damaging your daughter too.

Your son sounds like he has Little Prince Syndrome. Take back control and start living your life.

Moody. She has caused me not much trouble and been so kind to us all. But she sometimes says, screams, 'you have 2 children.' It's true, she's always been 2nd for attention, I am scared of hugging her in front of him because of the jealousy. He gets lots of hugs himself. He has caused so much trouble, sneered at her efforts to get As at school, sneered at her eating disorder (Go and stick your fingers down your throat and get some attention, he told her once.) Yes I do love her most now. i am only human. But it wasn't always like that.

I feel for you but if you don’t address this now you will be become my 84 year old neighbour. . Her DD says her son is killing her which sounds dramatic but it isn’t really an exaggeration. She’s had one stroke and the stress of is behaviour is extremely likely to trigger another.

He without doubt has autism but at 60 plus is undiagnosed. He’s a manipulative shit. His sister is another strong character who as someone said ‘clearly didn’t have caring for her Mum as part of her life plan’ butbhas stepped up and dinevwhat needed most of the time. The things he said about her had me fooled for a bit but I over heard a loud conversation he chose to have when I was in the garden and it’s clear he is obsessed with her and was ripping her to shreds in a conversation where she really didn’t feature.

They don’t communicate properly in their family and he says it’s always through a third party, which I managed to get in the middle of . I suck it up as it’s a time limited situation which will end when she moves. He pulls the suicide card which his mother is terrified of. Last time he was here he asked that when I speak ti his sister I tell her that her Brother is very unwell at the moment and could she dial down her school teacher bossiness as he may kill himself like his cousin did, Was going to ignore it then decided to quickly email her, he’d already said that, his conversation to me was ti build the persecuted by his sister narrative to rest of the world.

His Dad died recently and his Mum has decided to move but he is being obstructive, I asked her what would happen if she was direct with him and said clearly that she has decided she will do x so y will need ti happen and she looked at me a bit boanktmabd said she has never tried.

She has now tried and he loses the plot absolutely screaming at her. Never about what it’s realky about but dressed up as something else. She spends entire afternoons in tears and is so stressed about him. It’s incredibly sad . Don’t be her, well done for realising where you are at and that things must change.

Sorry OP but you are rejecting lots of brilliant advice on here. It's like you're finding ways to avoid tackling this. Be strong and make a change.

OP my heart goes out to you and I absolutely understand why you have done the things you have done and are doing now. You sound like a wonderful person who is just having to deal with an extremely complex and distressing long term situation.

I wonder if keeping a diary would help, if you say you're running out of people to talk to about it, as it would help you to off-load. Or, as you seem so articulate and are a creative professional, actually start writing a book about your experience. It may help you to trace the current situation back to particular things and to give you different perspectives on it. Also, if you find a way to make things improve, I really think a published book about it would be an incredibly helpful resource for a great number of parents.

And try and make time for you and your DH to do nice things each week, even little things like taking a walk together - it sounds like you both so need some tenderness.

You write so beautifully about your difficult situation and I have enormous sympathy for you

You sound like my mother who is in a similiar dynamic with het older sister.

This woman has ruled out lives, with the hold she has. Manipulative, blanking, entitled, but at the same time lonely and vulnerable.

The thing is, whatever anyone does for her, however deep she gets her hooks in, however far we meet her demands, none of it makes her happy.

So, we say to Mum, what’s the point in putting yourself, and the rest of the family by knock on effect, through any of it? Just put your foot down.

But she has whittled away at my mother’s confidence, and she plays the lonely card.

She has Nacissistic Personality Disorder (v clear from every tick list diagnosis and articles I have read in professional journals ) .

Your Ds sounds very similiar but with a different balance of traits.