I am so worried that I can't think straight anymore.

[outofthemoon]

DS 26 graduated 5 years ago, has worked 18months as a paralegal since, chucked it to go travelling. Rents a room in Manchester but spends most time with us. Just signs on. Has many strong opinions, says I'm autistic (but perhaps he is) has no relationships, few friends, drives. Is not all bad. But it's driving my dd (22) away and why won't he work. He does a bit of agency bar work but not much, and looks so scruffy I'm not surprised. I am worried sick that when i die my poor dd will have to take him on. He has overshadowed much of her life.

He spends lots of time diagnosing me then do not respond, do not engage, shut down the conversation.
First thing is to get him out of your home, you need a place where you can guarantee that you are safe from your abuser, he does not act like a son he acts like an abuser.
His actions tell you what he is, respond to him in terms of this.

Ops dh (and op to a certain extent) with the kindest will in the world this avoidance of confrontation is utterly self defeating! It's not solving ANYTHING it's just burying your head in the sand!

Nobody LIKES confrontation but sometimes it is NECESSARY and this IS one of those times!

Your failure to deal with him and the issues he is causing is causing far more harm to FOUR people THREE of whom are blameless in all this than a confrontation could possibly do.

You are doing him NO favours pandering to him, bailing him out and shying away from DEALING with this!

He is behaving like an overgrown toddler, lengthy reasoning discussions WILL NOT WORK.

Clear and consistent boundaries will be much better

I would suggest:

NO staying at yours AT ALL until he gets a job!

Even when he does no staying more than 2 nights in a row

NO drugs in the house!

NO lock on his bedroom door - it may be "his" room but it's YOUR house and he blatantly cannot be trusted.

NO more bailing him out - at the very very LEAST no cash! You are funding his drug use! Do you want to be buying his drugs? Contributing to his worsening health and possible death?

NO entering into discussions about your rules, him "diagnosing" you (such a deflecting pile of bullshit by the way) he likes it or lumps it!

NO aggressive or manipulative behaviour on visits or he is OUT!

I know it's hard, believe me, I'm from a family full of addicts I've seen this play out and the way you're doing it? NEVER ends well. I'm pulling NO punches, sorry if this is shocking and seems harsh but ime its true - it can result in the death of the addict.

But clear rules has a CHANCE of improving things, at the very least for the 3 of you still living in your house.

PLEASE seek help and advice from whatever local family of addicts support services you have locally. They will have seen this and worse many many times.

I have lost too many people to addiction, it's a selfish bastard of a condition and it needs starved of all oxygen!

PLEASE don't end up coming on here in the next 5 years having lost your boy altogether. NOBODY wants that and that is as far as I can see where this is headed.

the reason he spends time in your home is that he knows it destabilises you, it makes you stressed and then you are easier for him to upset and control.

I don't think there has to be a confrontation, prob best to avoid one because you'll be upset he'll be calm (with the narc' smirk) and that just gives him more power, makes you feel more crushed and humiliated.
Take control, calmly but firmly, decide on a course of action and stick to it, you dont have to explain or justify it to him.

He has delusions of grandeur doesn't he? Full of fantasies about what amazing things he could be and achieve yet doesn't want to work for them. Thinks it's all just going to happen.
He sounds emotionally very very immature and like a man who doesn't really want to grow up and deal with real life.
Tough love is all you can do here. He has to grow up and find a life of his own. There is no choice. You need to cut those apron strings regardless of the imagined consequences OP. Part of being a good parent is preparing a child adequately to leave... he needs to leave.

OP I think it could help if you force yourself to realise that, while he is your son, that you raised to your best ability and that you love, YOU didn't create this person that he has become.

You have to accept that your DS has grown into a very unreasonable and difficult person who is almost impossible to be around and who is ruining your life. But he is a grown man - an adult, who should be fully capable of making his own way in life.

Try to think of him as a more separate entity, emotionally, that you don't need to feel so much responsibility for - you really don't. And this goes for your DD too.

He can go hostelling and do bar work when he's travelling because it's hard to secure better work abroad, therefore such jobs will not be beneath him or damage his self esteem. If he were to get a permanent bar job, having finished university and comparing himself to his peers, he would probably feel like a failure. I think that's what he may be avoiding.

OP, have you asked him if he's happy?

OP - there are plenty of free counseling services on the NHS. Usually you have to wait a few months on a waiting list.

I appreciate that you are finding it hard to see a way through this, because you are too emotionally invested and feeling low.

Make a plan. Write it down and stuck to it.
1/ go to see your Dr about your depression. You cannot control everything around you, but this is something that you can do.

2/ download the Calm app to your phone. It has meditation/relaxation sessions/bedtime stories for when you are too stressed to sleep etc. You can download a free trial. Costs £28 a year. Is certainly worth it.

3/ meet up with some friends for lunch/change of scenery. Do not talk about DS. Just switch off.

4/ leave the conversation for your DH to have with your son. Don't get too involved in it.

5/ don't discuss your DS with your DD. She is most likely picking up your slack, so to speak, because she sees that you are unhappy and is trying to help out. The fact that she has been told to hang up you demonstrates that the problem is not just with your son, but with you and the impact that if is having on you. She obviously cannot take any more conversations about him. (Incidentally, I find it interesting that she cannot talk about him to you, but you say that she would pick up your role and be kind to him if you back off. Why would she do that? You also can't control how your daughter reacts/deals with him. You can only control what is in your control - which is yourself. That needs to be your focus.

Good luck, but please make a drs appt for yourself to discuss your depression (and not your son). You need to do that first before anything else.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/types-of-therapy/

OP you say you're going on holiday - all 4 of you? Just a suggestion, but what if you stayed home, and the 3 of them went, and while they are gone you clear out DS room, paint it, box his stuff up etc etc, and get your head straight. Change the locks. I couldn't imagine a holiday would be something that would help at this point. What are you going to talk about? Are you going to be abused by your son? Your'e going to feel rotten.

I think you need to chat with the police so they have a history. If it all kicks off when you get tough, then you can ring them and they'll already know the background.

You can't continue as you are.

You might even have to get a restraining order against him if he won't stay away.
Concentrate on getting dd on board. You are being cruel to be kind. It's for his own good. Tough love etc.

If he doesn't change, and turns to dd for support then I will take him on again

Op with respect this is really dysfunctional thinking and I think you are stuck in victim mode because it's familiar and all you know.You will NOT be getting a medal for volunteering for abuse. You will not be reaping the rewards of all the martyrdom in relationship "heaven".

This is really not hard. You decide what you will and won't put up with and you stick to it. You might decide he is not to stay overnight anymore at your home but is welcome for a daytime visit.If he won't leave you call the police. What happens after that isn't your problem. Do you actually want to go on holiday with him? Do you really want to continue a relationship with him?

I think you will probably recognise your family dynamic in this www.johngouletmft.com/Breaking_The_Drama_Triangle_Newest.pdf

When I was at uni, my mother was going through a lot of worry re both my dad and older sister.the more she talked about it to me, the more invested I became and also emotionally drained. I would try and resolve things to make my mum worry less. I also felt resentful that I felt like I had to take all of it on and that my mum had involved me. Your DD does not have to be there for you, nor him. It is not her responsibility. Everything that you do will have an impact upon your DD. You should go to your friends or DH for support, but don't concern your daughter with your or your son's issues. She is most probably feeding off your emotions, and then, in turn, you feed off hers and feel even more down. It's a cycle. However, if you look after yourself and don't involve her, she will be more relaxed about the whole issue to. I'm afraid that you are part of the problem here and influencing your DD's reaction. She's 21. She doesn't need to become bogged down in all of this.

@outofthemoon

Hello, how are you getting on?

You mentioned upthread that you cannot find a NAR meeting within 100 miles. The good news is that they offer Skype meetings - scroll to the bottom of this page for contact details - www.nar-anon.co.uk/find-a-meeting

I really feel for you OP. I have a similar but worse situation to you.

Firstly, be very thankful that your son does not live with you. These days it seems to be impossible to find accommodation on Housing Benefit. My son is stuck with us, unemployed long term and unable to get a job. I would give anything to have him out of the house but I can't see any way this will ever happen.

Your son is an adult, he is capable of working, he has somewhere to live. Don\t let him stay overnight or have a key to your house. Have him round perhaps for dinner once a week, or less if you find that a strain. If he starts to question you, be rude or project his stuff onto you you need to have clear boundaries. State clearly 'I am not prepared to listen to you being rude or upsetting people. You're welcome to come round if you're prepared to make an effort not to upset people, otherwise, let's give it a break for a while'. Mean it. Work on yourself, your self esteem, your friends and your own hobbies. Do things with your daughter, just the two of you. He is not her responsibility. I too have a daughter and she just can't cope with her brother at all anymore. They haven't spoken in over a year, which is very upsetting.

My son has severe MH issues, but I have come to the point where I would do anything to get him living independently as I just can't cope anymore. I realise I have enabled him , but it's gone on so long I don't know how to break the pattern.

It's not easy. ,but I really recommend you find a good therapist to work on your own boundaries and self esteem. This situation is not your daughter's problem, make that clear to her.

@throughthelookingglass, I am so sorry to hear about your situation 💐
I really hope you find some way to a better Life for both of you

Thank you @sorry. If anyone has any ideas about how I can find my son independent living i would be grateful. Don't wish to derail the thread though...

@throughthelookinglass, it sounds as if it is a complex problem, how do you feel about starting a thread?
At the very least you will get support and validation from others who have faced similar issues, and there will be others.