I am so worried that I can't think straight anymore.

[outofthemoon]

DS 26 graduated 5 years ago, has worked 18months as a paralegal since, chucked it to go travelling. Rents a room in Manchester but spends most time with us. Just signs on. Has many strong opinions, says I'm autistic (but perhaps he is) has no relationships, few friends, drives. Is not all bad. But it's driving my dd (22) away and why won't he work. He does a bit of agency bar work but not much, and looks so scruffy I'm not surprised. I am worried sick that when i die my poor dd will have to take him on. He has overshadowed much of her life.

I know I am. I just told myself that MrsGrindah. It's mostly because I have tried nearly all of them, the locks, the no internet, the tough love talks, In the past, for instance, if we give him a hard time, he turns immediately to his sister and at whatever hour of night, whatever exams or problems of her own, he dumps it all on her. Have you seen Love Actually? Like that. So to protect dd I have not been tough with him often. Once he went and cut himself, that was awful. It horrified me. I did a dreadful thing. I did it back. I have dealt with this all so badly, I've begged gps when he was younger. He has me over a barrel because of dd.

oh this sounds just like my brother except he is mid 30's. He signed on for ages because he was clever enough to work the system. FWIW I suspect he is not neuro-typical - intelligent, obsessive interests, domineering etc. I'm scared of him and I dread having to deal with him when my parents are gone. Like your son he is abusive to my parents and he has been physically violent to me but refused to apologise. He shouts at them and won't help at home. I have zero relationship with him and when my parents are no longer there to sponge off I can assure you that I (nor my sis) will not be "taking him on" and I'm sure your daughter won't either! Don't worry about that!

My parents won't challenge him, dad is an "anything for a quiet life" type too. It is hard to get someone like this out and I understand your fear of him or that he will end up on the streets / drugs. But they should have done this long ago because they are stuck with him now and too old to stand up to him. I think you need to make this very hard choice.

I agree with other posters, tough love is needed here or nothing will change. He knows you and your DH are weak and he is playing on this.
You MUST both stand up to him, tell him he can’t stay at your house, he has his own accommodation so there is really no need. Stop giving him money or paying for things, he can afford to buy weed, after all.
You can still support him by helping him look for work. I’m sure that once you have made the decision to stop enabling him, your mental health will soon improve. I wish you luck 💐

Why do I have to be the one in need of help.

Because, without wishing to sound unkind at all because you are in a horrible situation which would drive anyone to despair, you said "I am in despair. I have to stay alive for dd. Otherwise I wouldn't"

You are suicidal. You need support. Could you ring Young Minds and ask for their advice concerning your son?

How does a young man of 26 pay his board without a job?

You can't not confront him because of your daughter. I think you all need to get together and discuss possible outcomes and at least your daughter will be prepared and you can have a united front. Youcan't protect everyone from the harsh realities of life, but you can help provide them with the skills, support and strength to deal with it.

If he's cutting himself badly because of it then call an ambulance -it might get him the help he needs.

Yes. You are right. I will show dh this thread.

He only cut himself once. Then I did it to myself and said, look what it's like.

He gets UC Benji.

take his door off and throw him out. why on earth enable this shit?

my parents threw me out at 16 when i was being a disrespectful little shit.I learnt the hard way even at 16 and came back a month laterwith my tail between my legs and bucked my ideas up

Change the locks on your house.
Seriously, kick him out.
This is abuse.

I don’t know where you live, but would you like me to come round and read him, and then you the riot act!
He’s not a nice man, he is ABUSING you all.
For Christ’s sake woman take a real look at what he’s doing.

He sure as hell wouldn’t speak or treat me that way more than once, and I have left an abusive marriage so I should know.
He is 26 not 6, and he certainly knows how to claim benefits, buy weed, travel and shaft you for cash and living expenses. Know any other ‘nice’ sons that can do all that! NO, me either!
I would honestly die if my son (18) turned out that way, a lazy, self opinionated, vegan lout who was dependant on his parents while abusing them, wow! What a prize prat!
In my last post I told you what to do. There is nothing wrong with your MH that a break from him won’t cure.
So it’s up to you. Get a backbone or a therapist!

You are enabling him. Your entire family are dancing attendance on him like he is a Sun King.

Stop it. You will destroy your relationship with your loving and supportive DH and your adored DD by always prioritising him.

He is an adult. A smart, arrogant adult who is perfectly capable of figuring out what we all have to figure out at that age- how to live independently. You are not doing him any favours by enabling him and babying him and protecting him.

I have a lot of compassion for all of you. That sounds so hard.

The first and most essential thing is that you feel safe in your own home. That's absolutely imperative.

Until you have that security you can't really help your daughter, son, or anyone. So that's your priority.

Further down the line, you could look into maybe family counselling or something similar.
Kids (your son is acting like a kid, despite being an adult) need boundaries. Firm, clear boundaries. Misbehaviour is sometimes a cry out for someone to show them where the boundaries are.

That's not going to be easy - I would suggest a counsellor or therapist for you, for support, to help specifically with setting boundaries and assertion.

All the best. x

You have to really strong, stop washing his clothes, give him no bedding, and you DH and DD eat out for a week (every meal) have no food in the house, tough and hard but it worked for me when I wanted rid of exH.

Look OP he survived when travelling and he will, take little notice of his arrogance, he will get over any resentment he feels towards you in time.

Also , the old "I didn't ask to be born line" is usually spouted by immature 15 year olds. Tell him it applies to every single person on earth!

You mention the Love Actually scenario. But your son is not mentally disabled in the same way is he? He has the capability to stand on his own feet, he is just choosing not to?

If that is right then maybe you could fund your DD to go travelling and take a gap year and evict your son while she is away? It sounds extreme but maybe you need to get legal advice or some sort of restraining order if you are physically afraid of him?

I think he's behaving like this because his life is not meeting his own aspirations of what he thought he'd be achieving with his degree, but he's not hit rock bottom while there is a safety net in the form of a room he can stay in, and job seekers allowance for money, which are effectively incentivising him to stay in that condition and not requiring much input from him, so he's not motivated to change anything. Confronting him with suggestions that his degree is becoming increasingly stale to prospective employers might hurt his pride making him withdraw further, even if its logically true when there are fresh graduates each year, and even past graduates who have been accumulated a greater work history.

I'm a believer in the power of incentivising people to do things (so they WANT to do something) rather than compelling them to do something they don't see any sufficient reward to attempt... so maybe he'll find being presented with some fresh challenges can provide motivation. I find watching videos like of new recruits to the USMC getting shouted quite inspirational, so since he's got a degree and is in Britain... maybe he'll find this challenge attractive apply.army.mod.uk/how-to-join/joining-process/officer-recruitment-steps

How will your DD learn not to be at his beck and call if you don't teach her?

Thank you all.

Family therapy we have done, and I know I am continuing to sound negative but he came out very pleased with himself. He is very good at manipulating conversations. We paid for a lot £50 a time, it did no good at all. I have once called the police after a wrestling match with ds, years ago (in front of my very ill mother). They carted him off, asked where he wanted to be dropped, and drove him there. To his druggy little friends.

It's true, he has so many golden visions of himself saving the planet, playing in a rock band, travelling the world, and they are all illusions. Not going to happen. I will stop babying. DH has read this and says he will try and help. I do grovel to him and when he is kind, like out in the rain, when he offered his coat, i was so touched. And he bends down and picks up peoples litter often. And he is so lonely. His peers have left him behind. We are his social life I think. But he is so selfish and so jealous of dd, has been since her birth.
I don't want to split up with dh. We are good companions and have been since we were 20. 60 now. Or to sell my home so there isn't a room for him. Anyway, I know what he would do. Go straight to dd.
Do you really think more tough love will not backfire in her face? In the past it has done dreadfully.

He sounds ripe for a schizophrenic episode. At the very least I'd be having a confidential talk with a mental health practitioner.

Yes. Done that.

This is so, so sad. I’m so sorry that you are having to go through this.

I think it’s a really difficult situation and I can see why it’s so difficult to make any big changes.
How big is your house? Can you make a private area/room for your daughter?

If your DD was in a relationship wIth someone who was treating her as your son treats you what would you tell her?

Would you allow her to be suicidal whilst continually enabling his behaviour? Would you allow her children to be scared of coming home?

This is exactly what you’re allowing for yourself and the behaviour that you are modelling for her.

You need to kick him out (get the police to remove him if he will not leave) change the locks, block his phone number and ask your DH and DD to do the same.

If he can travel the world he can survive in a flat in Manchester! It will be really hard, but it will also be the best thing you’ll ever do for your children, both of them.

Am I missing something - he is 26! Chuck him out. He is abusing you and the family, if he was 16 then I could understand but 26 is an adult.

Rents a room in Manchester but spends most time with us

& spends that time with you being opinionated, making jobes about your menatl health & alienating your daughter - but when you attempt to talk to him If I try he goes into his bedroom and locks the door.

You cannot continue accepting this OP.
For your & DD's sake you need to forget about "he might end up on the street" & remember that he HAS a home - his room in Manchester.
He has a rented place, he has no need to live with you.

If your DD has any sense she will not return to your home and go NC with your son. He is acting like a spoilt brat and you need to stand firm against him, move his stuff out of your house and to his room in Manchester and change the locks

You have had some excellent advice on here. You and OH need to decide whether you take it or not. You will lose your daughter if you do not.