DH smashed DS's phone

[thiscountryfan]

So yesterday I walked in to the mother of all rows between DH and DS (14).

DS was screaming and raging at DH for stamping on his phone and more than likely fatally damaging it. According to DH, he had discovered DS had been stealing his beers (not for the 1st time), then lied about it, then smirked in DH's face when busted. DH just lost his shit at that point and grabbed the phone (possibly the only item that DS cares about).

DH has since apologised to DS and accepts
It wasn't his finest hour but point blank refuses to pay for replacement/repair - saying he is sick of DS's selfish rude attitude of late and that he needs to learn a lesson.

I'm torn. I certainly don't agree with what DH did (and he knows it) but quite frankly DS has been so utterly horrendous and perhaps needs to
Understand that parents are human too.

Your child is making food in front of you....
So you could have stopped her if you wish.
So is the reason for two people in an argument not also important.

Of course she didn't react in the same way as the dad in this thread but all of the posters there think the husband is out of order for eating the chocolate.

Again, Decomposing again and again and again and again: it’s the reaction that’s the important bit. It’s the violent reaction that makes the threads different. That OP didn’t respond violently to the ‘theft’ (again depending on whether or not you see this OP has a theft, it’s irrelevant) - the reaction to it is the bit that matters.

Again. That was a birthday present and the OP’s favourite, which was presumably why the dh in question gave it to her. It wasn’t stealing, but it was selfish and unkind and mean spirited.

And, reference toastie- he didn’t make it in front of me. I just caught the unmistakable smell of cheese toastie drifting up to my room.

So it was 10 euros this time, but he clearly had no problem doing something that he knew that he shouldn't do. What's to say next time it won't be 50 euros or 100? Or in app purchases like we see reported in the news? Will you be so relaxed if faced with a 2000 euro bill?

I actually don't worry about it, because he could do it and he hasn't.
The first time he didn't realise he was spending money, and the second time he understood that it was taken out of his allowance. I know he understands the concept of costs and he asks every time to spend his own money on gaming and apps. For the most part I end up saying yes, even if not immediately. So, he has no reason to push it too far, and he is aware of how the money is spent.

In fact, I'm the one often raiding his purse for cash and he trusts me to replace it.
As I trust him.

Why is it personal property? Can't the OP drink it?

Posters on the thread that I've just linked to seem to think that it's fine for a person to have food that is just for them and that it's not ok for someone else to take it.

He was violent.

He list his temper. We have all done it. My car broke down the other day, in a car park blocking the whole road. I lost my temper. I may have phoned my husband and raged at him down the phone because I was stressed and unable to do anything to remedy the situation. I may have then thrown my phone down in disgust and kicked the car. Was I proud of myself? Nope. Am I violent? Nope. Was I stressed, and felt like it was the straw that broke the camels back? Yes.

You did see at least six people said the chocolate thief stole the bar.......
And 97 % think he was wrong...

Buy him his own beer problem solved.

and for what feels like the millionth time. Even if the OP’s son had unequivocally stolen something, stamping on a phone in a fit of rage is never an acceptable response to anything. That does not mean that there should be no consequences or sanctions or that the OP’s son is an “innocent angel”.

Pumperthepumper
Why can you not admit the son played a part in what happened.....?
Even if up to the second the dad dropped the phone....?

He was wrong because it was a present.

I don't think dad's beer was a present from his son, or anyone.

I'd find it hard to live in a family where there are food items that belong to someone else.

Plus, still concerned for the OP and her DH focusing on stealing rather than drinking.
Their priorities are not right.

The first time he didn't realise he was spending money, and the second time he understood that it was taken out of his allowance.

Well let's hope that he knows exactly how much extra he goes over by, given the first time he had no idea and the 2nd time he had to pay for it himself.

Did he ask if it was ok to go over the 2nd time and did he know exactly how much it could cost?

To me, that seems like he disregards the rules but it's not my problem.

Decomposing but this is all nonsense too. Of course kicking something in a temper is a violent act! Of course it is. Arguably there’s a difference between being violent to your car in a temper and being violent in front of your kid in a temper BUT being unable to control your temper or being unable to control what level of violence you respond with is shitty, shitty parenting. How you can argue that it isn’t is just alien to me.

I asked earlier what level of violence you think is acceptable in your home, in your family, and I don’t think anyone replied. For me, the answer is ‘none’. For you, the answer seems to be ‘some but only if you REALLY lose your temper because then you can justify it to yourself’.

“Why can you not admit the son played a part in what happened.....?”
Of course he did. His actions made his father angry. What he did not play a part in is what his father did with that anger. And if you think he did, then you are also saying that it was his fault if his father punched him in the face. Because “he drove him to it”

He was wrong because it was a present.

I don't think dad's beer was a present from his son, or anyone.

It doesn't need to have been a present does it? The point is that it was the dads and the son had been told not to drink it. Who bought it or why aren't relevant. We aren't talking about basic food, it's a treat item.

mummmy this is the last time I’ll say this: the son is not responsible for his father’s response, regardless of his behaviour. His behaviour is irrelevant to his father’s violent response. The fact the father thinks it’s ok to respond with violence has absolutely nothing to do with the son.

mummy

There are two issues.

a) how wrong the kid was

b) how wrong the dad was

For me:
a) I wouldn't consider it stealing. I'd worry about the drinking first and foremost. I wouldn't like it if he took food items that he knows other people eat or drink to the last without replacing them or asking if it was ok to finish them.

b) whatever the son did, the father shouldn't have smashed his phone. It was a violent and out of proportion act. He realised that, but should make proper amends.

No, I don't think how the dad reacted suddenly made the son in the right. His actions were not acceptable to his parents (more or less, according to different opinions) and should be addressed.
I don't think unrelated punishments work well. And I wouldn't apply punishments that were not given as a warning beforehand.
As much as possible, I'd try to address why he acted the way he did (drinking, taking drinks he knew his parents didn't want him to, lying, smirking) and work with him on those issues.
Is it just lack of self-control? Does he have a drinking problem? Is he trying to push boundaries or is some sort of call for attention? Are the parents too restrictive?

To me, that seems like he disregards the rules but it's not my problem.

No.
And it wasn't a rule as such. I never told him he was forbidden to spend extra data. Just had a chat with him about it costing and that it would come out of his allowance. He could be spending it on whatever he wants.

That’s utterly heartbreaking sad

Don't feel sad for me thanks, I don't.

I wouldn't have made a coffee from my mum's stuff without asking.

And then you stole money from your mother.

Don't you think there's a connection? It seems very controlling to me.

Pumperthepumper

I think there's a huge difference between a one off kids of temper (directed at an inanimate object obviously, never justifying hitting someone as a one off) that you are genuinely sorry for and don't repeat and being a violent person.

I don't condone what the dad did but I can sort of understand it. I can see it being driven by a fear for where the son is heading and feeling like he's out if control and then over reacting.

This is a snapshot in time and we have no context. Maybe the son has gone off the rails because he hasn't been parented, has had no rules and no sanctions until now. Or maybe the op and DH are great parents, have done it all right but the son is behaving like this anyway.

People have down played what the son did - many think it was no different to making a sandwich or a coffee but actually I do think it was showing a disregard for the property of others. Why shouldn't parents teach kids that you need to be respectful of other people's possessions?

Why is it personal property? Can't the OP drink it?

If my DS was over 18 and took a couple of glasses of my favourite drink would I consider it stealing? Of course not.

I find this bizarre. Regardless of whether I'm over 18, who would just help themselves to alcohol in the fridge if they didn't buy it, without asking? My granddad drinks beer, grandma drinks gin, he would ask her if he could have some of her gin if he wanted it, and she would ask him if she fancies a beer and they are in their 70s! It's manners.

Just had a chat with him about it costing and that it would come out of his allowance. He could be spending it on whatever he wants.

Whose name is the phone bill in? Only good luck to you if he can just run up a bill without your permission. He might be able to pay 10 euros out of his pocket money. Can he pay 100 euros?

Pumperthepumper
Still refusing to actually say the son was wrong.
Lweji I agree with your views of the situation, I agree the dad was wrong.
Breaking the phone was wrong.
The sons actioned made the dad angry.
Yes it does come down to how the dad dealt with his anger.

Ever feel like you are going round in circles

Still, the thread is nearly at the 1k so at less the end is near.

This is one of the saddest threads I have read on Mumsnet, the amount of women that accept and excuse violence is shocking. The idea that a 14 year old child is responsible for the actions of a grown man is ridiculous; what worries me is how many women don't seem to simply know that.

I do hope all you 'team DH' Pom Pom wavers actually realise what you are supporting, because of you don't you are putting yourselves and any children you may have at risk.

Please understand, violence isn't a teacher.

And then you stole money from your mother

And? That's teenage stuff, I didn't steal her money just because I had to ask to use her coffee, Jesus Christ. It's not just my mum who would expect you to ask, it's my grandparents, aunts and uncles, it's everyone in my family.